Is something really wrong with Play Game feature?

[Charlie Ricker]

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[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Now, that is very different from saying that nothing is wrong in the OP's saved game where this is occurring. It certainly sounds like something might be corrupted in some way. Though honestly I can't imagine what would cause this kind of discrepancy between 3D game play and simmed game results. So, statistical long-shot or not, this could still just be a statistical anomaly. (After all, someone does win big in the lottery occasionally, no matter how long the odds are.)

You're forgetting one major difference between a simmed game and the 3D gameplay -- the human manager. I don't mean to point a finger at the OP and call him/her a bad manager, but that's the variable that exists. Whether or not that's what's causing the OP's experience, I can't say. But that is a very important variable.

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

You're forgetting one major difference between a simmed game and the 3D gameplay -- the human manager. I don't mean to point a finger at the OP and call him/her a bad manager, but that's the variable that exists. Whether or not that's what's causing the OP's experience, I can't say. But that is a very important variable.

Well, it wasn't really so much that I was forgetting it but rather that I chose not to factor it in. Mostly because I am skeptical that a manager, IRL or in OOTP, has enough power to affect the outcomes of a series of games this significantly.
But also because it wasn't clear to me just how much he was managing in game. I, for instance, play out all of my games for my team (in my primary fictional save) but I let most decision making reside with the AI while all I control is in-game substitutions (though I also control all lineup decisions pre-game as well.) Now in his original post he did refer to taking over the reins, so it could probably be assumed that he does more in-game managing than I choose to do. But I chose not to make that assumption.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by BirdWatcher

Well, it wasn't really so much that I was forgetting it but rather that I chose not to factor it in. Mostly because I am skeptical that a manager, IRL or in OOTP, has enough power to affect the outcomes of a series of games this significantly.
But also because it wasn't clear to me just how much he was managing in game. I, for instance, play out all of my games for my team (in my primary fictional save) but I let most decision making reside with the AI while all I control is in-game substitutions (though I also control all lineup decisions pre-game as well.) Now in his original post he did refer to taking over the reins, so it could probably be assumed that he does more in-game managing than I choose to do. But I chose not to make that assumption.

Well, my response would be to say that is what makes the human manager such an important variable. We can influence the game in any number of ways, and how the OP chooses to do so will determine how important that variable is.

And I would also point out that he/she doesn't have to be so bad as to be the cause of 25 straight losses. Some of the losses may have simply been because the other team played better.

[Findest2001]

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I must concede I am the common denominator. That said, I have played OOTP for close to a decade and have never had results like this before, and I've managed some terrible teams (Padres, Marlins franchises, even the White Sox). This current team is a team that weekly dominates the power rankings, and the only real subs I make are pitching substitutions and an occasional pinch runner for a pitcher/catcher if I'm behind. I wouldn't even post if I truly believed I was behind the anomaly.


Besides how much mismanagement can possibly be involved when the first batter of the game you hit the "pitch" button, and the batter unloads a leadoff homer. Next batter, "pitch">> HR, next batter> "pitch" double, etc...until you're down by 8 runs in the first inning and finally decide to warm up a long reliever for the umpteenth game in a row because my all-star starters who are front runners for Cy Young and first-ballot All-Stars can't last a single played inning but have no problems whenever I sim the games?

My post was because of all of the games (the count is 41 now with 2 wins) the computer gets the lead in the first or second inning in 90% of them. And not just A lead, but gigantic ones.


That's not my decision making. That's something in the game.

EDIT: I just started a game and the FIRST THREE PITCHES are HR's by the other team. This is too much.
I'm opening a ticket.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I must concede I am the common denominator. That said, I have played OOTP for close to a decade and have never had results like this before, and I've managed some terrible teams (Padres, Marlins franchises, even the White Sox). This current team is a team that weekly dominates the power rankings, and the only real subs I make are pitching substitutions and an occasional pinch runner for a pitcher/catcher if I'm behind. I wouldn't even post if I truly believed I was behind the anomaly.


Besides how much mismanagement can possibly be involved when the first batter of the game you hit the "pitch" button, and the batter unloads a leadoff homer. Next batter, "pitch">> HR, next batter> "pitch" double, etc...until you're down by 8 runs in the first inning and finally decide to warm up a long reliever for the umpteenth game in a row because my all-star starters who are front runners for Cy Young and first-ballot All-Stars can't last a single played inning but have no problems whenever I sim the games?


That's not my decision making. That's something in the game.

I hate to be "that guy," but I'd like to see box scores and play-by-play as proof of evidence that your team is losing in that manner. Otherwise, it smells like a lot of hyperbole to me.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I hate to be "that guy," but I'd like to see box scores and play-by-play as proof of evidence that your team is losing in that manner. Otherwise, it smells like a lot of hyperbole to me.

The last game I know for a fact is the most recent. However, I got so pissed after giving up the HRS in the first inning I auto-simmed the rest of the game so I only played 5 or 6 batters. I'll post this game in here. I am not going to post 45 box scores. Ive already put ridiculous amounts of work trying to figure this issue out. I'm not about to spend 5 hours meticulously going through my box scores to prove it to people online. Believe me or not. Your choice. I don't blame you for being skeptical, but trust me it's frustrating as all hell losing constantly through no fault in my own.



Aside from that I wasn't recording dates. I was only counting games. If the devs request the box scores in my ticket I will eventually get them and I'll keep them in a folder and post them here. Until then this will have to do:

This is basically a carbon copy of my first inning in every play game. This is actually one of the BEST first innings I've had in a while. ONLY 2 HRs lol

[BirdWatcher]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Well, my response would be to say that is what makes the human manager such an important variable. We can influence the game in any number of ways, and how the OP chooses to do so will determine how important that variable is.

And I would also point out that he/she doesn't have to be so bad as to be the cause of 25 straight losses. Some of the losses may have simply been because the other team played better.

Understood. I guess I was giving him the benefit of the doubt on this.

[Reed]

It does sound like terrible luck. Even a poor manager would have a better record than this unless they are doing something silly like someone mentioned bunting with every batter, etc., which I do not believe is the case here. I can not imagine it being a corrupted file causing this. I would be tempted to play out all my games for a year to see what my record is and to compare my players stats to their ratings at the end of the year.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by Reed

It does sound like terrible luck. Even a poor manager would have a better record than this unless they are doing something silly like someone mentioned bunting with every batter, etc., which I do not believe is the case here. I can not imagine it being a corrupted file causing this. I would be tempted to play out all my games for a year to see what my record is and to compare my players stats to their ratings at the end of the year.

Although from a scientific standpoint this is the most reasonable way to determine possible causes, I'm not so sure my temperament can handle it right now lol. Winning 2 in 45 games has made me almost throw my computer out the window, which isn't good. I play the game for fun. And it isn't fun. I really don't want it to feel like work...


I get enough of that...at work :P

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Thanks for the benefit of the doubt. I must concede I am the common denominator. That said, I have played OOTP for close to a decade and have never had results like this before, and I've managed some terrible teams (Padres, Marlins franchises, even the White Sox). This current team is a team that weekly dominates the power rankings, and the only real subs I make are pitching substitutions and an occasional pinch runner for a pitcher/catcher if I'm behind. I wouldn't even post if I truly believed I was behind the anomaly.


Besides how much mismanagement can possibly be involved when the first batter of the game you hit the "pitch" button, and the batter unloads a leadoff homer. Next batter, "pitch">> HR, next batter> "pitch" double, etc...until you're down by 8 runs in the first inning and finally decide to warm up a long reliever for the umpteenth game in a row because my all-star starters who are front runners for Cy Young and first-ballot All-Stars can't last a single played inning but have no problems whenever I sim the games?

My post was because of all of the games (the count is 41 now with 2 wins) the computer gets the lead in the first or second inning in 90% of them. And not just A lead, but gigantic ones.


That's not my decision making. That's something in the game.

EDIT: I just started a game and the FIRST THREE PITCHES are HR's by the other team. This is too much.
I'm opening a ticket.

Been reading this thread since you started it but haven't taken the time to comment seeing you getting a lot of good responses.

My take is it's an anomaly that is going against your team. I play out all of my games and in v18 I had a 44 game winning streak, what are the odds? Don't know how many I won with improbable comebacks. Error, wild pitch, single to tie it in the bottom of the 9th and go on to win in the 15th. Or maybe a run balked in for a win. Comebacks from 7-0 deficits etc. etc. etc. If I lost 44 in a row this way I'd pull out my hair But if I can win 44 in a row why can't I lose 44 in a row?

FWIW there is only one engine that both played out and simulated games use. Only difference is human input. In your post I quoted you say you hit "pitch" for each batter.

Do you ever hit pitch around when the batter has a history of hitting your pitcher hard?

Do you pitch around when you have a high control\ low stuff P on the mound pitching to a high contact\low eye batter and try to get him to chase?

Do you use mound visits to try to break the momentum?

Playing out my games I think these are things I think I need to do to maximize my chance of winning. I'm sure 90% of the time I just hit pitch too but there are a lot of situations where I don't. Can't say for sure mound visits do much but they sure can't hurt.

Just throwing out some ideas....

[endgame]

It’s likely a small consolation, if any, but one of the people who has often remarked what a difficult time they have doing well in the game is Markus. So even being the creator of the game has no doubt left him baffled at the results of his personal interventions.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Been reading this thread since you started it but haven't taken the time to comment seeing you getting a lot of good responses.

My take is it's an anomaly that is going against your team. I play out all of my games and in v18 I had a 44 game winning streak, what are the odds? Don't know how many I won with improbable comebacks. Error, wild pitch, single to tie it in the bottom of the 9th and go on to win in the 15th. Or maybe a run balked in for a win. Comebacks from 7-0 deficits etc. etc. etc. If I lost 44 in a row this way I'd pull out my hair But if I can win 44 in a row why can't I lose 44 in a row?

FWIW there is only one engine that both played out and simulated games use. Only difference is human input. In your post I quoted you say you hit "pitch" for each batter.

Do you ever hit pitch around when the batter has a history of hitting your pitcher hard?

Do you pitch around when you have a high control\ low stuff P on the mound pitching to a high contact\low eye batter and try to get him to chase?

Do you use mound visits to try to break the momentum?

Playing out my games I think these are things I think I need to do to maximize my chance of winning. I'm sure 90% of the time I just hit pitch too but there are a lot of situations where I don't. Can't say for sure mound visits do much but they sure can't hurt.

Just throwing out some ideas....

I'm willing to try anything but mound visit in the first inning after 3 pitches? Even in a blowout that seems extreme. Nonetheless ill try it.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I'm willing to try anything but mound visit in the first inning after 3 pitches? Even in a blowout that seems extreme. Nonetheless ill try it.

Hey, whatever it takes Mound visits, I think, have a small chance of settling a P but like real life who knows?

The batter\pitcher match too me is what to keep an eye on.

example if I have a P that is 4-4-8 stuff-movement-control(on the 2-8 scale) and he is facing a batter that is 7-5-2 (contact-power-eye) I'm thinking of using pitch around and see if I can get him to chase or hit a ball on the edge of the zone weakly. Anything over the plate and his 7 contact is a real danger against my 4 stuff.

That can be reversed: P with 8-8-4 vs B with 4-3-8 and I may pitch him to contact figuring even if he hits it he's not going to hit it hard. But with that 8 eye he's a danger to walk.

Then there's the batter that has a history of pounding your P. He's a pitch around candidate in certain situations.

I look at it as, who do I want to challenge, and who do I want to make sure doesn't beat me.

[Harry Hibbs]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

EDIT: I just started a game and the FIRST THREE PITCHES are HR's by the other team. This is too much.
I'm opening a ticket.

... sorry if this has already been asked... have you checked game modifiers to see if anything is way off, e.g. HR totals? I wonder something has happened to inflate those numbers. Even then, though, strange results would carry through to simmed games.

Have you ever played out 7 or 8 games consecutively? Losing streaks of more than 7 games are rare even for weaker teams.

[Harry Hibbs]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I don't know if it affects it or not but it is an import from OOTP19. I could simply try to start the same franchise again within 20 and see if it's any better. Maybe something didn't import properly?

Just FYI I did an import of my 19 save into 20 and I am not having a similar problem. I play out all my games. Admittedly I'm 20 games out of first at the all star break but that's all my fault, not the game's

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by Harry Hibbs

... sorry if this has already been asked... have you checked game modifiers to see if anything is way off, e.g. HR totals? I wonder something has happened to inflate those numbers. Even then, though, strange results would carry through to simmed games.

Have you ever played out 7 or 8 games consecutively? Losing streaks of more than 7 games are rare even for weaker teams.

they should be on whatever the default setting is. And again, I never had problems with it in any previous iteration of the game.


The most of I've done consecutively is 5 games because I started getting really pissed and my team needed a win so I simmed and they won 4/5 after I lost 5 straight playing.

[slugga27]

It really sounds like you just have bad pitching. You can score, on average, ten runs a game. But if you give up, on average, 12 runs a game, you’re not winning many games.


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[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by slugga27

It really sounds like you just have bad pitching. You can score, on average, ten runs a game. But if you give up, on average, 12 runs a game, you’re not winning many games.


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The thread should actually read "is anything really wrong with pitching in play games?". My hitting seems mostly normal. Ill check my FIPs and ERA+ later when i log in. IIRC the only pitcher having problems for me when simming is Joe Ross. My other 4 kick butt when simming but all 5 get destroyed when "playing"

EDIT: it would be nice to have a way to separate the splits based on played games versus simmed games so i could show it. It would show about a 7-8FIP and 40ERA+ when Im playing and 3-4 FIP and 100-115 ERA+ in simmed games. Its really blowing my mind at this point.

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

The thread should actually read "is anything really wrong with pitching in play games?". My hitting seems mostly normal. Ill check my FIPs and ERA+ later when i log in. IIRC the only pitcher having problems for me when simming is Joe Ross. My other 4 kick butt when simming but all 5 get destroyed when "playing"



EDIT: it would be nice to have a way to separate the splits based on played games versus simmed games so i could show it. It would show about a 7-8FIP and 40ERA+ when Im playing and 3-4 FIP and 100-115 ERA+ in simmed games. Its really blowing my mind at this point.

I should point out that I play out all my games. I’m currently around 19-13 for the season in my current MLB save.

Also: do you only use “Pitch”, or do you use “Pitch Around” when situations call for it?



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