Prospect trading - Page 2

mtlcash · 05-15-2019, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ts-Rock

just reading this post and I have seen same, has this been adjusted in new patch (DL now in hotel slow ass internet speed).

I tried several patches ago and it wasn't fixed, so I stopped playing to be honest. Hopefully it gets altered shortly because it shouldn't take 250M in trade money to acquire a top prospect. Something happened after a couple of patches this year that increased top prospect value way too high. I'm sure people have tried with many 5 star potential prospects and nearly all are almost impossible to obtain no matter what is offered. OOTP20 didn't start like that, so I would say about 1-2 patches in, something got messed up.

Bears5122 · 05-15-2019, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtlcash

I tried several patches ago and it wasn't fixed, so I stopped playing to be honest. Hopefully it gets altered shortly because it shouldn't take 250M in trade money to acquire a top prospect. Something happened after a couple of patches this year that increased top prospect value way too high. I'm sure people have tried with many 5 star potential prospects and nearly all are almost impossible to obtain no matter what is offered. OOTP20 didn't start like that, so I would say about 1-2 patches in, something got messed up.

Teams rarely give up elite prospects. Do you think the Blue Jays would trade Vlad Jr for a bunch of good prospects? What's a potential MVP on a team friendly contract for 7 years worth in terms of trade value?

I know on paper it sounds nice to give up the 20th, 30th, and 50th best prospect for the best prospect in baseball. But that potential elite talent is so much more valuable.

andyhdz · 05-15-2019, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bears5122

Teams rarely give up elite prospects. Do you think the Blue Jays would trade Vlad Jr for a bunch of good prospects? What's a potential MVP on a team friendly contract for 7 years worth in terms of trade value?

I know on paper it sounds nice to give up the 20th, 30th, and 50th best prospect for the best prospect in baseball. But that potential elite talent is so much more valuable.

this x 100.

BirdWatcher · 05-15-2019, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtlcash

I tried several patches ago and it wasn't fixed, so I stopped playing to be honest. Hopefully it gets altered shortly because it shouldn't take 250M in trade money to acquire a top prospect. Something happened after a couple of patches this year that increased top prospect value way too high. I'm sure people have tried with many 5 star potential prospects and nearly all are almost impossible to obtain no matter what is offered. OOTP20 didn't start like that, so I would say about 1-2 patches in, something got messed up.

Consider also that what you see as messed up others might see as fixed.

Arobbins · 05-15-2019, 08:02 PM

Not everyone wants realistic trading. There's settings for a reason..but they're broken now.

I just updated to the 20.3 patch, trading has definitely gotten wonky.

I have four of the top 25 prospects currently on the Pirates in 2022. All of whom I traded for, most of them were 2 or 3 prospect packages for someone I need to come up in the next couple seasons. Not 100% realistic or fair, but not too bad either.

I can't get anywhere close to those deals now. At all. The difficulty and AI value settings don't change anything. It is 100% impossible to trade for any top 15 or 20 prospects. Offering a superstar(Stanton) and 100% retain isn't enough for a 22 year old reliever?!?
'Make this Work' does nothing, "Shop Player" only provides mass salary dump players.

Absolutely ruining the experience. I'll have to figure out how to roll back

Juggernt · 05-15-2019, 11:39 PM

My experience has been similar. What is remarkable is that the AI has never made a trade on a player that my AGM has recommended. I took it to extreme limits, offering several 80/80 players and tens of millions in cash (1990s money) for a prospect (potential in the 60s) and they still said no. Can't believe that this is anything more than a bug.

Malova · 05-16-2019, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernt

My experience has been similar. What is remarkable is that the AI has never made a trade on a player that my AGM has recommended. I took it to extreme limits, offering several 80/80 players and tens of millions in cash (1990s money) for a prospect (potential in the 60s) and they still said no. Can't believe that this is anything more than a bug.

I completely agree with everyone and what they are saying, simply put instead of a setting change being a hard fix. Why not make it an adjustable option.

I think that is all we are asking for?

tejdog1 · 05-17-2019, 06:37 PM

Noah Syndergaard + Jeff McNeil (who is underrated as HELL in the default roster set) for Keston Hiura gets me a "This must be a joke." along with no body on my team they'd want in addition.

And yet - on the flip side, shopping Cano and his horrid deal around gets me Durbin + Chavis + Chatham from the Red Sox. Which obviously I'm all in on lol.

jimmysthebestcop · 05-17-2019, 07:30 PM

I still think you have to trade for who and your scout think are top prospects not necessarily who the other team and OOTP have rated as top prospects.The top 10 prospects might be the consensus top 10. They ever hardly move IRL.

What I could go for is an OOTP scouting change. Where as OOTP Scouts are replaced with 3 scouting organizations whether that is media. FanGraphs sponsorship or projection ratings like Zips and the other ones.

Cause IRL its them and the media who are talking to teams scouts and make it the consensus top 15 prospects etc. That is who starts the hype. Why a million people knew of Vlad Jr for the last 3 years.

It just the OOTP scouting is so awful I don't actual think it should be like that anymore in 2019. At least in a modern mlb start. Basically it should either be improved to mirror Real Life or just removed from game or option to remove from the game.

Example Owner goals are tied to OOTP ratings. Top prospects are OOTP rating based. Who AI wants to trade and doesn't is party effected by those OOTP lists. Even if they are ranking a clear bum because their scouting isn't even up to an average team scout.

I think each team scout/organization should also list who they feel is their top prospects. Not just use this faulty OOTP scout list. Unless OOTP Scouts have an overhaul.

I mean even fantasy baseball sites have prospects who are 4 and 5 years away scouted out and talked about all year long for keeper leagues. Its big money. Projections is big money too these days.

This under staffed and under funded OOTP Scouting Association doesn't make much sense in modern mlb simulation.

I doubt CBS, ESPN, Fox, Fangraphs, Zips, Steamer, The Bat would fit the under funded and under staffed model that OOTP Scout Asscoc use.

mtlcash · 05-18-2019, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malova

I completely agree with everyone and what they are saying, simply put instead of a setting change being a hard fix. Why not make it an adjustable option.

I think that is all we are asking for?

Did you try the patch from a couple of days ago to see if it's fixed? I doubt it, but you never know.

Poonox24 · 05-18-2019, 06:59 PM

What kind of change/setting would I be able to do if I wanted more trades where good (maybe not top tier) prospects would be traded for good MLB talent at the trade deadline. It happens every year but in OOTP, the mlb players get traded for crap minor leaguers.

mtlcash · 05-19-2019, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poonox24

What kind of change/setting would I be able to do if I wanted more trades where good (maybe not top tier) prospects would be traded for good MLB talent at the trade deadline. It happens every year but in OOTP, the mlb players get traded for crap minor leaguers.

Normally you would set trade difficulty to easy, but that's not working right now from what I can tell. I changed settings and tried many trades (from blue chip to top/good prospects) and they all require obscene amounts of cash (150m-250m) to complete at every setting. So you will need to wait for a fix in a new patch.

BusterKing · 05-19-2019, 09:31 AM

Looks like Markus is ignoring this thread. Must be busy with PT.

tejdog1 · 05-19-2019, 04:21 PM

Just because Markus (and/or the team) haven't replied, doesn't mean he/they are actively ignoring this thread. Who knows, maybe it's functioning as it should in their minds (if that's the case, they're wrong lol). Maybe they're pouring over old patches to see how they messed this up. Maybe it's just unfixable currently.

Matt Arnold · 05-19-2019, 04:26 PM

I haven't noticed this in my plays recently, but we'll have a look through. It should be hard to acquire top talent, but we can also look to make sure there's a nice gap at the different trade difficulty levels too.

tejdog1 · 05-19-2019, 05:33 PM

Here's the thing Matt, yes it absolutely should.
But I should also be able to land Keston Hiura for Noah + McNeil, especially when I'm paying 100% of Noah's contract (and lets be honest here, IRL Syndergaard would fetch more than Keston in a trade, let ALONE adding Jeff McNeil on top of that)

Aaron's Aron · 05-20-2019, 03:39 PM

I do agree trading for top prospects is pretty much impossible the way the game is now. Pretty much anyone that is about 65+ potential out of eighty (this number is arbitrary of course; just a rough estimate from what I've seen) can't be traded for. I can make plenty of trades for average-ish prospects, but anyone who is a franchise changing, true impact-type prospect is off limits.

I agree it should be difficult to trade for this level of prospects because they are rarely moved in real life. It does seem to be a bit overdone though since it is basically impossible. I want to unload some very good major leaguers on good contracts to push forward a rebuild, and I can't get any prospects who are a game changer.

Maybe this is the way it is intended and if so, that is fine. I just think you should be able to acquire elite prospects (for a good return of course). That is my opinion, but again, if this is working as intended then I suppose we'll just have to adjust.

For what it's worth, I normally play on the "Hard" trading difficulty and "Neutral" for trading preference, but I've switched to "Average" for trading difficulty since this change and there hasn't been a noticeable difference with elite prospects.

EDIT: I'm not talking about prospect for prospect trades (although the same holds true) by the way. I'm talking about good major leaguers on good contracts for an elite prospect.

Mat · 05-20-2019, 07:12 PM

If they are good major league players on good contracts - why trade them for prospects?

torpidbeaver · 05-20-2019, 10:52 PM

I think it could be useful and less frustrating if the AI started using the "Untouchable" tags we as human managers can already use. I'm not going to get Vlad no matter what, but when there are other prospects that the AI sees as super-valuable, it'd be useful and eliminate some of the frustration that happens from not being able to get the AI to open up the purse strings.

I know it's "gamey" but some sort of optional "perceived value" gauge would be really helpful as well. I know it's not ideal, but we aren't talking to another human here, we can't pick up context clues, so give us a little more feedback than what we get now.

My two cents anyway.

Tony79 · 05-21-2019, 03:28 AM

I'm not sure if it's broken or working as intended but trading for prospects doesn't reflect what happens in real life.

Top prospects are given up in real life. The Cubs gave up G.Torres(and 3 other prospects) just for a few innings of A.Chapman because they were in win now mode. Guys like Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez are given up by win now teams for all star major leaguers. They aren't untouchable.

05-15-2019, 08:02 PM	#25
Arobbins Minors (Double A) Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 132	Not everyone wants realistic trading. There's settings for a reason..but they're broken now. I just updated to the 20.3 patch, trading has definitely gotten wonky. I have four of the top 25 prospects currently on the Pirates in 2022. All of whom I traded for, most of them were 2 or 3 prospect packages for someone I need to come up in the next couple seasons. Not 100% realistic or fair, but not too bad either. I can't get anywhere close to those deals now. At all. The difficulty and AI value settings don't change anything. It is 100% impossible to trade for any top 15 or 20 prospects. Offering a superstar(Stanton) and 100% retain isn't enough for a 22 year old reliever?!? 'Make this Work' does nothing, "Shop Player" only provides mass salary dump players. Absolutely ruining the experience. I'll have to figure out how to roll back __________________ 20 21

05-17-2019, 06:37 PM	#28
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	Noah Syndergaard + Jeff McNeil (who is underrated as HELL in the default roster set) for Keston Hiura gets me a "This must be a joke." along with no body on my team they'd want in addition. And yet - on the flip side, shopping Cano and his horrid deal around gets me Durbin + Chavis + Chatham from the Red Sox. Which obviously I'm all in on lol. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade Last edited by tejdog1; 05-17-2019 at 06:39 PM.

05-19-2019, 04:21 PM	#34
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	Just because Markus (and/or the team) haven't replied, doesn't mean he/they are actively ignoring this thread. Who knows, maybe it's functioning as it should in their minds (if that's the case, they're wrong lol). Maybe they're pouring over old patches to see how they messed this up. Maybe it's just unfixable currently. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

05-19-2019, 05:33 PM	#36
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	Here's the thing Matt, yes it absolutely should. But I should also be able to land Keston Hiura for Noah + McNeil, especially when I'm paying 100% of Noah's contract (and lets be honest here, IRL Syndergaard would fetch more than Keston in a trade, let ALONE adding Jeff McNeil on top of that) __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

05-20-2019, 03:39 PM	#37
Aaron's Aron Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 70	I do agree trading for top prospects is pretty much impossible the way the game is now. Pretty much anyone that is about 65+ potential out of eighty (this number is arbitrary of course; just a rough estimate from what I've seen) can't be traded for. I can make plenty of trades for average-ish prospects, but anyone who is a franchise changing, true impact-type prospect is off limits. I agree it should be difficult to trade for this level of prospects because they are rarely moved in real life. It does seem to be a bit overdone though since it is basically impossible. I want to unload some very good major leaguers on good contracts to push forward a rebuild, and I can't get any prospects who are a game changer. Maybe this is the way it is intended and if so, that is fine. I just think you should be able to acquire elite prospects (for a good return of course). That is my opinion, but again, if this is working as intended then I suppose we'll just have to adjust. For what it's worth, I normally play on the "Hard" trading difficulty and "Neutral" for trading preference, but I've switched to "Average" for trading difficulty since this change and there hasn't been a noticeable difference with elite prospects. EDIT: I'm not talking about prospect for prospect trades (although the same holds true) by the way. I'm talking about good major leaguers on good contracts for an elite prospect. Last edited by Aaron's Aron; 05-20-2019 at 03:48 PM.

05-15-2019, 11:39 PM	#26
Juggernt Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 357	My experience has been similar. What is remarkable is that the AI has never made a trade on a player that my AGM has recommended. I took it to extreme limits, offering several 80/80 players and tens of millions in cash (1990s money) for a prospect (potential in the 60s) and they still said no. Can't believe that this is anything more than a bug.

05-17-2019, 07:30 PM	#29
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	I still think you have to trade for who and your scout think are top prospects not necessarily who the other team and OOTP have rated as top prospects.The top 10 prospects might be the consensus top 10. They ever hardly move IRL. What I could go for is an OOTP scouting change. Where as OOTP Scouts are replaced with 3 scouting organizations whether that is media. FanGraphs sponsorship or projection ratings like Zips and the other ones. Cause IRL its them and the media who are talking to teams scouts and make it the consensus top 15 prospects etc. That is who starts the hype. Why a million people knew of Vlad Jr for the last 3 years. It just the OOTP scouting is so awful I don't actual think it should be like that anymore in 2019. At least in a modern mlb start. Basically it should either be improved to mirror Real Life or just removed from game or option to remove from the game. Example Owner goals are tied to OOTP ratings. Top prospects are OOTP rating based. Who AI wants to trade and doesn't is party effected by those OOTP lists. Even if they are ranking a clear bum because their scouting isn't even up to an average team scout. I think each team scout/organization should also list who they feel is their top prospects. Not just use this faulty OOTP scout list. Unless OOTP Scouts have an overhaul. I mean even fantasy baseball sites have prospects who are 4 and 5 years away scouted out and talked about all year long for keeper leagues. Its big money. Projections is big money too these days. This under staffed and under funded OOTP Scouting Association doesn't make much sense in modern mlb simulation. I doubt CBS, ESPN, Fox, Fangraphs, Zips, Steamer, The Bat would fit the under funded and under staffed model that OOTP Scout Asscoc use.

05-18-2019, 06:59 PM	#31
Poonox24 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2019 Posts: 219 Blog Entries: 1	What kind of change/setting would I be able to do if I wanted more trades where good (maybe not top tier) prospects would be traded for good MLB talent at the trade deadline. It happens every year but in OOTP, the mlb players get traded for crap minor leaguers.

05-19-2019, 09:31 AM	#33
BusterKing Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,369	Looks like Markus is ignoring this thread. Must be busy with PT.

05-19-2019, 04:26 PM	#35
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,133	I haven't noticed this in my plays recently, but we'll have a look through. It should be hard to acquire top talent, but we can also look to make sure there's a nice gap at the different trade difficulty levels too.

05-20-2019, 07:12 PM	#38
Mat All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Australia Posts: 651	If they are good major league players on good contracts - why trade them for prospects?

05-20-2019, 10:52 PM	#39
torpidbeaver Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 385 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	I think it could be useful and less frustrating if the AI started using the "Untouchable" tags we as human managers can already use. I'm not going to get Vlad no matter what, but when there are other prospects that the AI sees as super-valuable, it'd be useful and eliminate some of the frustration that happens from not being able to get the AI to open up the purse strings. I know it's "gamey" but some sort of optional "perceived value" gauge would be really helpful as well. I know it's not ideal, but we aren't talking to another human here, we can't pick up context clues, so give us a little more feedback than what we get now. My two cents anyway.

05-21-2019, 03:28 AM	#40
Tony79 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 104	I'm not sure if it's broken or working as intended but trading for prospects doesn't reflect what happens in real life. Top prospects are given up in real life. The Cubs gave up G.Torres(and 3 other prospects) just for a few innings of A.Chapman because they were in win now mode. Guys like Moncada, Kopech, Jimenez are given up by win now teams for all star major leaguers. They aren't untouchable.