The Early Years

[Tosti]

His record on boxrec is somewhat patchy.

His extended record in 'The English Boxing Champions' by Bill Matthews is also inconsistent. His claims to fame were winning the 'Coronation 8st 6lbs Belt' and an '8st 4lbs' Championship.

He went the distance four times with Johnny Summers, the latter knocked out a quarter of his career opponents.


This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[bear]

Tom
I love Mathews' book. A great resource.

[Tosti]

Originally Posted by bear

Tom
I love Mathews' book. A great resource.

It is. I picked it up on ebay a while back.

[Tosti]

Spike, brother of Dave, was the real deal.

Although defeated nine times in sixty six fights he racked up some impressive victories. By all accounts he was an all action fighter known for his 'slashing style'.

He notched up high level victories against Bobby Dobbs, Eddie Connolly, Martin Flaherty , Tommy Cleary, Dal Hawkins and most notably a second round knockout of a fading Billy Ernst.

His most famous bout was an 'ordeal' against the great Joe Gans who outclassed him. An account of the bout can be found here.

FIGHT REFEREE ASSAULTED.; Charles White Knocked Senseless by Beaten Ma... - Article Preview - The New York Times

On retirement, such was his popularity, over a $1000 was raised for him through various benefit evenings.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

Of the thirteen contests listed for Woodley on Boxrec, ten were against database rated Jewey Cook (5).

The Matthews book 'The English Champions' lists several others. However the grade of the opposition is difficult to discern.

It's safe to say that Woodley was pretty useful, but lacking a knockout punch.

Woodley once held the English 10st 6lbs title.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

Broderick suffered against the high class fighters he came across.

He did though manage to deck Joe Gans before going on to a sixth round knockout loss.

Allowing for the fact that three of his stoppage losses were incurred when he was 'post prime', his chin appears to be relatively good.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

According to boxrec Farrell's career never really got going, with only seventeen fights noted over an eight year period.

He faced only two database opponents, both of which he beat.

He seems to have been a bit 'lively' having lost to Willie Fitzgerald (not in the database?) by disqualification and nearly losing the fight with Frank Bryant through a foul.

It would be good to get hold of some more information on Mr Farrell.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

Originally Posted by bear

Herman Miller
Global ID 149098
sex male
division lightweight
nationality United States
residence Baltimore, Maryland, United States
won 16 (KO 9) + lost 16 (KO 7) + drawn 7 = 40
1895-1907
Schutte's American Supplement of Boxing 1989 has
5'9 135-145
1898-1908 as career span
TB 44 W 20 (13 ko 7 wd) D 6 L 17 (6 ld 1 lf 10 kb) ND 1
A lot of differences between Schutte and box rec
Schutte's ko loss to Joe Gans gived a a LD. 1 Ko loss changed to a DQ loss
1 KO loss changed to a Ko win, and another Ko loss changed to a draw
1 ND is changed to a newspaper win
Also added are 1 KO win 1 WF 3 D 1 KB 3 LD 2 LF and 1 ND

Herman Miller LW slugger 3

Hi Bear just noticed this rating for Miller.

I did him mainly on Boxrec and came up with a 1 Slugger rating.

I need to get hold of a copy of Schutte's

BTW I just uploaded your rating for Woolf Bendoff, he will be entering my Heavyweight universe when my other weight's catch up.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Tosti

Hi Bear just noticed this rating for Miller.

I did him mainly on Boxrec and came up with a 1 Slugger rating.

I need to get hold of a copy of Schutte's

BTW I just uploaded your rating for Woolf Bendoff, he will be entering my Heavyweight universe when my other weight's catch up.

Bill Schutte put out two compilations of records of early boxers. I picked mine up from Clay Moyle at Prizefightingbooks.com.

[Tosti]

Originally Posted by bear

Bill Schutte put out two compilations of records of early boxers. I picked mine up from Clay Moyle at Prizefightingbooks.com.

Thanks.

I'll give him a shout in the New Year.

[Tosti]

Phil seemed to come unstuck when he went up in class.

According to Boxrec he had four fight's against database opponents. He won a fifth round disqualification victory against the great Young Peter Jackson but otherwise ended up on his back.

He suffered late career knockdown's against Dixie Kid (HP 3), George Cole (HP 1) and an earlier loss against George Green (Young Corbett).

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[bear]

Originally Posted by Tosti

Thanks.

I'll give him a shout in the New Year.

Tom
If you've ever visited Antiquities of the Prize Ring and looked at any of the newpaper articles of fighters there that the are on sale you've seen the work of historian Bill Schutte. Antiquities picked up Schutte's collection of newspaper articles when Bill "retired" from collecting memorabilia.

[Tosti]

Originally Posted by bear

Tom
If you've ever visited Antiquities of the Prize Ring and looked at any of the newpaper articles of fighters there that the are on sale you've seen the work of historian Bill Schutte. Antiquities picked up Schutte's collection of newspaper articles when Bill "retired" from collecting memorabilia.

Thanks I didn't realise.

Antek is a great source of reference, I've bought quite a few pic's off the Schaffer's in recent months.

[Tosti]

One for the database.

According to CBZ, Rotchford was a 'capable scrappy fighter'.

He mixed with some good guys during his career including Oscar Gardner, Young Corbett II, Terry McGovern and a fading Jimmy Barry.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

Smith somehow won a newspaper decision from a post prime George Cole in 1907.

Otherwise he fits the bill of a typical undercard scrapper. His first fight, according to Boxrec, was against Midleweight Jack Bonner, he lasted two rounds.

The 'Coloured Cyclone' inevitably had a far longer record than that shown on Boxrec. His only other stoppage loss was against Ad Wolgast.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

Although born in the US, Cullen fought many times in Australia.

His Boxrec record is incomplete.

'Heroes of the fancy' by Arnold Thomas states of Cullen, 'he was a tough nut, facing Tim Hegarty, Cocker Tweedie, Frank Thorn and Bob Turner, who were all great Australian champions'.

It would be nice to dig up some more information on Cullen.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

A rating 'nicked' from forum stalwart Christopher Mund (ConnChris).

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post1025624



'Denfass was in the ring for six years and fought six rounders almost exclusively.

He did however face a number of top Middle and Light-heavyweights of the day. Early on, Denfass scored victories over Tommy Cleary, Charley Johnson, Owen Ziegler and Billy Stift as well as a draw with Klondike Haines. Ed dropped bouts to Jack Root, Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, Jack Williams and three to George Cole.

He was stopped twice in 34 pro bouts and only had two bouts scheduled for more than six rounds, one ended in a 10 round victory on points over Bob Long, the other saw the inexperienced Teddy McMahon knock Denfass out in the first.'

This rating is not part of the database.

[Tosti]

According to boxrec Harris met only two TB database fighters.

He outpointed a prime Casper Leon over six rounds, before dropping a six round decision to Benny Yanger.

He never fought beyond six rounds, another fighter that needs some research.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

Newark based Henry came up against three TB database men. He lost against James 'Red' Herring (TKO 4), Mel Coogan (L NWS 10) twice and Abe Attell ( KO 3).

It's difficult to dig up anymore information on the Kid.


This rating is speculative and not part of the database.

[Tosti]

According to Boxrec, a points victory over a possibly post prime Tommy Cleary, and stoppage losses to Tom Couhig and Mike Donovan are the only fights Kanell had against TB database fighters.

I was unable to find any other info on Kanell.

This rating is speculative and not part of the database.