How far along is the patch? - Page 2

Nino33 · 05-25-2015, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garethw87

I was one of the people shouting at Riz every other week to hurry up and quit SI and remake EHM I'm sure it must just be good timing!

Maybe you're right, maybe SI did release EHM:EA because of FHM (maybe SI felt sorry for hockey fans for the fiasco that was FHM1, and knew that FHM2 would be similar, and that's why they released EHM:EA...is that what you meant?)

It looks to me like FHM2 is going the exact same route as FHM1. The developer is nowhere to be found and fanboy supporters are already attacking anyone who's not a fanboy (sorry Smetana, but at this point I think anyone that still has anything positive to say about FHM is a fanboy...for me and many others they've used up every last chance for any words to matter at all...they need to produce a product worth playing. As I suggested with FHM1, the supporters of FHM2 should take a page from the developers they're supporting and go silent. Until a worthy product is produced, all you're doing is making things worse IMO)

Smetana · 05-25-2015, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nino33

Maybe you're right, maybe SI did release EHM:EA because of FHM (maybe SI felt sorry for hockey fans for the fiasco that was FHM1, and knew that FHM2 would be similar, and that's why they released EHM:EA...is that what you meant?)

It looks to me like FHM2 is going the exact same route as FHM1. The developer is nowhere to be found and fanboy supporters are already attacking anyone who's not a fanboy (sorry Smetana, but at this point I think anyone that still has anything positive to say about FHM is a fanboy...for me and many others they've used up every last chance for any words to matter at all...they need to produce a product worth playing. As I suggested with FHM1, the supporters of FHM2 should take a page from the developers they're supporting and go silent. Until a worthy product is produced, all you're doing is making things worse IMO)

Fair enough, Nino. Valid points, for sure. For as well as OOTP baseball does on the PR side of things (though it wasn't always that way), FHM really does make the customer feel as though they don't matter in the least. I'm not trying to jab at the dev team, it's just popular opinion, and it's well founded.

The first FHM was admittedly a disaster. The trail that FHM2 is taking is not inspiring confidence in the buying public.

Make no mistake, my enthusiasm in my earlier posts is not based on blind faith or assumption, and I know how things look to the buying public. My opinion of the future of the FHM series was based on testing the product that is currently in my hands. If Sebastian and company can keep the ball rolling and build on the current beta builds, then a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised. But you're totally correct that the buying public has no reason to be excited at this time. That's unfortunate.

I don't believe I'm "making things worse". I don't work for OOTP games and have no ulterior motive to building the game up. Just stating my opinion.

Nino33 · 05-25-2015, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smetana

If Sebastian and company can keep the ball rolling and build on the current beta builds, then a lot of people will be pleasantly surprised

On May 14, eleven days ago, Sebastian posted on TBL that FHM2 would be available for comparison with EHM:EA "in a few weeks" Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15 / FHM 2 ? EHM The Blue Line

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smetana

I don't believe I'm "making things worse". I don't work for OOTP games and have no ulterior motive to building the game up. Just stating my opinion.

It's because of the ongoing poor communication/PR style and the above that I'm suggesting what I am.....it looks just like it did with FHM1, and I guess I see the coming weeks/months to again not be good for FHM supporters! And the only hope/solution is a decent product.....you're thinking they're going to build on the beta you've got and Sebastian saying "a few weeks" is an example of what's been seen before (I've always thought "a couple" meant 2 and "a few" meant 3.....but even if you stretch "a few" to mean 5-6 weeks, that's not much time for that beta build you're looking at to get the attention you know it needs; and given the FHM1 patch is still not released it's obvious the Match Engine patch isn't yet ready! Doesn't make for positive feelings about how well the "new features" already being PRed are going to work)

Cole · 05-26-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nino33

On May 14, eleven days ago, Sebastian posted on TBL that FHM2 would be available for comparison with EHM:EA "in a few weeks" Latest Update on FHM 14 and FHM 15 / FHM 2 ? EHM The Blue Line

It's because of the ongoing poor communication/PR style and the above that I'm suggesting what I am.....it looks just like it did with FHM1, and I guess I see the coming weeks/months to again not be good for FHM supporters! And the only hope/solution is a decent product.....you're thinking they're going to build on the beta you've got and Sebastian saying "a few weeks" is an example of what's been seen before (I've always thought "a couple" meant 2 and "a few" meant 3.....but even if you stretch "a few" to mean 5-6 weeks, that's not much time for that beta build you're looking at to get the attention you know it needs; and given the FHM1 patch is still not released it's obvious the Match Engine patch isn't yet ready! Doesn't make for positive feelings about how well the "new features" already being PRed are going to work)

The difference is FHM 1 was released when it wasn't ready, in order to meet a release date. This is the reason we have chosen this path of simply giving a rough estimate of a release date, but committing only to releasing the game when it is good and ready and not a day before. I know it can be frustrating for consumers, but even more frustrating is rocky release and that's why we want to take every precaution.

As Markus noted in the FHM 2 thread, sometimes estimates change and that's why in this case it was tentative.

You are right, the release of a good product is the most important thing and that's what our developers are focused on. Stay tuned and there will be more information, screen shots and details to come.

Sebastian Palkowski · 05-26-2015, 02:02 PM

@ Nino33: we had this conversation on the Blue Line, so I keep it short.

Yes, you are not happy with us, I understand that and you have all the rights to feel that way. Rewriting the Match Engine from zero is a lot of work and yes, we know it took a lot of time. You know what, we would have loved to have it released 6 month ago but that was just not possible. Yes, it was a big mistake to promise it in a patch for FHM 1, if I could go back in time, I would go back and never promise it. But we did it and we will release it as promised. When? Whenever it is done, tested and we are happy with it. Same with FHM 2.

For the future, we already said that we would learn from the past: no promises, no release dates, more info on the development process. We know that we need to regain faith and we will continue to work on it.

Nino33 · 05-26-2015, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

@ Nino33: we had this conversation on the Blue Line, so I keep it short.

Yes, you are not happy with us, I understand that and you have all the rights to feel that way. Rewriting the Match Engine from zero is a lot of work and yes, we know it took a lot of time. You know what, we would have loved to have it released 6 month ago but that was just not possible. Yes, it was a big mistake to promise it in a patch for FHM 1, if I could go back in time, I would go back and never promise it. But we did it and we will release it as promised. When? Whenever it is done, tested and we are happy with it. Same with FHM 2.

For the future, we already said that we would learn from the past: no promises, no release dates, more info on the development process. We know that we need to regain faith and we will continue to work on it.

Not sure how you think your post relates to anything I said, as I didn't ask about any release dates for anything

Stuff I did ask about I see no reference to (for example, still waiting for the link to the actual apology)

glb2687 · 05-26-2015, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nino33

Not sure how you think your post relates to anything I said, as I didn't ask about any release dates for anything

Stuff I did ask about I see no reference to (for example, still waiting for the link to the actual apology)

What is the point? Sebastian has admitted they would do it differently if they could. You can't turn back time so let it go. Why do you need a link to an apology?

Give the man and the devs a break! When it is done you will get it. Do you really want something quick and inferior....they learned from their mistakes!

Nino33 · 05-26-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glb2687

What is the point? Sebastian has admitted they would do it differently if they could. You can't turn back time so let it go. Why do you need a link to an apology?

Give the man and the devs a break! When it is done you will get it. Do you really want something quick and inferior....they learned from their mistakes!

The point was Sebastian's words don't match his actions, and don't answer the posters (but he likes to take credit for his "communication")...if you can't link to an apology, then maybe the apology was never given, making it just another time where Sebastian's words don't match his actions

And the point is they're now PRing FHM2. Sebastian is going onto other websites (TBL) to do so. And I challenged him on his words...and never got answers. Given the Match Engine patch has not yet been released, why would I believe anything Sebastian says about FHM2?

To many it's offensive to see FHM supporters attack those complaining...based on the facts those complaining have a right to complain (not sure why FHM supporters seem to enjoy attacking others, but it sure happens a lot)....just all the talk/PR about FHM2 is offensive when you've asked paying customers to watch for a patch for the 2013-14 season and now the 2014-15 season is practically over and you're PRing the new FHM2 (didn't you already do that last October)...sure looks like a bunch of PR/hyperbole just like last time (and based on they still haven't fixed the first game, why should they be given more slack on PRing the new game?)

Nino33 · 05-26-2015, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Cole.

As Markus noted in the FHM 2 thread, sometimes estimates change and that's why in this case it was tentative.

I'm not sure why you and Markus think the two situations are comparable...OOTP is released around the start of the season, regardless of any "delay" & the Match Engine patch being waited on for FHM1 is still being waited on at the end of the next season! The entire season is over, and the entire next season is almost over, and we're still waiting - not the same situations at all!

And given the PR push for FHM2 it's hard to believe the delay was reasonable (why work on FHM2 with an outstanding patch for FHM1 that's going to be used in FHM2 too...I can't be the only one that wonders why it wasn't prioritized above FHM2 and PR, but apparently Sebastian has the time for these extra things as well as the work that's long delayed - doesn't give the impression that much has been learned since the first disaster)

05-27-2015, 04:44 AM

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈ t r oʊ l /, /ˈ t r ɒ l /) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Internet troll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Statsman1 · 05-27-2015, 11:50 AM

Seriously, to hear some people, you'd think the FHM patch was actually the cure to cancer, diabetes, athlete's foot, the boogie-woogie blues and the common cold in one pleasant-tasting drink.

In that light, I think OOTP should design a forum named "Boo Hoo 2016" (this must be disclosed, as this is a "main feature" that is necessary for the entire foundation of the product), and will also:

- cost a small sum to access, and must be paid in advance (this is key)
- be explicitly promised to be live by a fixed future date (like 2017)
- be late. No matter what date is promised, that promised date MUST be missed (this is critical, as it's the main reason it will be successful) due to circumstances that are reasonable to any person except those who actually pay for this.

Then (in late 2018) simply create and open a forum accessible by any person who PAID for their access.

"Boo Hoo 2016" will then offer those quasi-literate reprobates a place to whine incessantly about how OOTP didn't hit the release date, the quality stinks, the patches, while promised at no fixed date, are late anyway, their lives are ruined, they're not trolls, they're 'concerned consumers who coughed up some allowance, and darn it, they want their game NOW!!', etc.

It can even be self-moderating, giving actual grown-ups free time to go and do what grown-ups do.

OOTP can simply sit back, count the ever-growing stacks of moolah, and see if these dopey whiners actually clue in to the irony.

Judging by the constant stream of tear-soaked posts, and the semi-literate fist-waving defense that goes with them, this product cannot fail.

OOTP, you're welcome.

Cole · 05-27-2015, 12:37 PM

Alright, I can't see this thread taking a turn back towards anything productive either, so I'm closing it up before we have any more flames or back and forth.

05-26-2015, 02:02 PM	#25
Sebastian Palkowski Developer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 5,114	@ Nino33: we had this conversation on the Blue Line, so I keep it short. Yes, you are not happy with us, I understand that and you have all the rights to feel that way. Rewriting the Match Engine from zero is a lot of work and yes, we know it took a lot of time. You know what, we would have loved to have it released 6 month ago but that was just not possible. Yes, it was a big mistake to promise it in a patch for FHM 1, if I could go back in time, I would go back and never promise it. But we did it and we will release it as promised. When? Whenever it is done, tested and we are happy with it. Same with FHM 2. For the future, we already said that we would learn from the past: no promises, no release dates, more info on the development process. We know that we need to regain faith and we will continue to work on it. __________________ Buy Franchise Hockey Manager 10

05-27-2015, 04:44 AM	#30
dmytron Guest Posts: n/a	In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈ t r oʊ l /, /ˈ t r ɒ l /) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. Internet troll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Last edited by dmytron; 05-27-2015 at 05:16 AM. Reason: too aggressive

05-27-2015, 11:50 AM	#31
Statsman1 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Marmora, Ontario, Canada Posts: 332	New game idea that can't possibly fail to make OOTP wealthy beyond mortal comprehension Seriously, to hear some people, you'd think the FHM patch was actually the cure to cancer, diabetes, athlete's foot, the boogie-woogie blues and the common cold in one pleasant-tasting drink. In that light, I think OOTP should design a forum named "Boo Hoo 2016" (this must be disclosed, as this is a "main feature" that is necessary for the entire foundation of the product), and will also: - cost a small sum to access, and must be paid in advance (this is key) - be explicitly promised to be live by a fixed future date (like 2017) - be late. No matter what date is promised, that promised date MUST be missed (this is critical, as it's the main reason it will be successful) due to circumstances that are reasonable to any person except those who actually pay for this. Then (in late 2018) simply create and open a forum accessible by any person who PAID for their access. "Boo Hoo 2016" will then offer those quasi-literate reprobates a place to whine incessantly about how OOTP didn't hit the release date, the quality stinks, the patches, while promised at no fixed date, are late anyway, their lives are ruined, they're not trolls, they're 'concerned consumers who coughed up some allowance, and darn it, they want their game NOW!!', etc. It can even be self-moderating, giving actual grown-ups free time to go and do what grown-ups do. OOTP can simply sit back, count the ever-growing stacks of moolah, and see if these dopey whiners actually clue in to the irony. Judging by the constant stream of tear-soaked posts, and the semi-literate fist-waving defense that goes with them, this product cannot fail. OOTP, you're welcome. __________________ Statsman1

05-27-2015, 12:37 PM	#32
Cole Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Posts: 2,685	Alright, I can't see this thread taking a turn back towards anything productive either, so I'm closing it up before we have any more flames or back and forth.