Batting order?

RoteLaterne · 04-08-2020, 04:06 PM

Hey folks, how do you sort your batting order?
I mean, sorted by OPS, OBP? Any other idea?

4th-3rd-2nd-1st-5th-6th-7th-8th-9th

Something like that?
Any advice?

backupbatboy · 04-08-2020, 04:13 PM

You can't simplify it that much. If a 3 outcome hitter (HR, K, BB) who runs like Bartolo Colon has your 4th best OPS, are you hitting him leadoff or second over someone with lower OPS (or higher I suppose) who doesn't strike out and runs well but also won't hit many homers?

RoteLaterne · 04-08-2020, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backupbatboy

You can't simplify it that much. If a 3 outcome hitter (HR, K, BB) who runs like Bartolo Colon has your 4th best OPS, are you hitting him leadoff or second over someone with lower OPS (or higher I suppose) who doesn't strike out and runs well but also won't hit many homers?

So for a lead-off guy "get on base", no matter what? means ... OBP

backupbatboy · 04-08-2020, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoteLaterne

So for a lead-off guy "get on base", no matter what? means ... OBP

That's not what I said. Seems like you have it figured out though so not sure why you are asking

Harry Hibbs · 04-08-2020, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoteLaterne

So for a lead-off guy "get on base", no matter what? means ... OBP

Yes, but ideally with speed / SB capabilities as well as high OBP. Then again, playing against catchers with strong arms and /or a starting pitcher who's great at holding runners, maybe not? That's what's fun about OOTP, no easy answers

thklein · 04-08-2020, 04:45 PM

I try to put my best on base guy at the top of the lineup. I don't worry about speed and stolen bases. I just want my best on base guy to get as many at bats as I can get him. Then I order them based on WRC+. Again, I want my best hitters at the top of the order to get them as many at bats as possible. WRC+ is my go to stat for this.

chazzycat · 04-08-2020, 04:50 PM

The main reason why batting order matters is simply because the hitters at the top of the order will compile a lot more PA over the course of a season, giving them a lot more opportunities. So there's something to be said for the simple approach of just sorting your players by an overall run production stat (I would recommend wRC+).

backupbatboy · 04-08-2020, 05:37 PM

How I set my lineups in general....
1 - Low K% + good speed (put the ball in play, get yourself into scoring position)
2 - Best hitter (who I would answer if someone asked "who is your best hitter?")
3 - Highest BA guy (after #2 spot if applicable. Don't care what kind of hit it is because someone should be in scoring position most of the time)
4 - Highest SLG guy (other than #2 & 3 if applicable)
5 - Highest OPS (other than #2-4)
6 - Behind top 5, best fit for leadoff
7 - Between 7 & 8, whoever hits more dingers, because the only two kinds of plate appearances are dingers and not dingers.
8 - Loser of the 7/8 dinger war, most likely the defensive minded catcher hitting below the Mendoza line
9 - Pitcher because I like Bartolo Colon hitting homers more than Edwin Encarnacion hitting homers

Others may go by 1 stat. Or just by feel. I'd say I'm much more of the feel, using these general guidlines as how I typically do it.

24Rocks · 04-08-2020, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backupbatboy

9 - Pitcher because I like Bartolo Colon hitting homers more than Edwin Encarnacion hitting homers.

If you used anyone other then EE I probably would agree with you but Edwin Hits some great Homers.

Syd Thrift · 04-08-2020, 07:26 PM

I go...

1 - best speed on the team as long as they don't totally suck / ideally a high OBP
2 - good avoiding Ks, ideally a left-handed hitter (to "hit behind the runner"), try to get a middle infielder to keep them all from being at the bottom of the order
3 - best hitter for average
4 - best hitter for power
5 - 2nd best power hitter, although sometimes this can be a 2nd leadoff spot
6, 7 - next worst hitters
8 - usually the catcher, unless the catcher is a really good hitter (but they have to be exceptional, as the backup C will usually be pants)

Probably the most important thing if you're interested in stats is to get your best hitters early in the order because they'll have more plate appearances. If you're using a no-DH league the leadoff hitter has a kind of severe reduction in how much his power matters because not only is a homerun only worth 1 run if he leads off a game (whereas it can be worth a lot more down in the order), there's also a much, much greater chance that he'll come up with empty bases later in the game since he's hitting after a .150 hitter.

All of this being said, unless you do stupid, stupid things, like put your worst OPS player leadoff, your 2nd worst 2nd, and so on down the list, the difference between a bad lineup and a good one is like 1 win a year. So my main advice is, don't take too much time worrying about this particular thing except to immerse yourself in the game / keep your players happy / etc.

CBeisbol · 04-09-2020, 03:37 AM

Best hitters 1,2 and 4
1 more OBP oriented
4 more ISO oriented

Speed to the bottom of the order. If they can hit 7th, that's ideal. Then they are on base in front of what are likely some singles hitters. Speed is wasted in front of sluggers. One doesn't want to run into outs with a home run threat at the plate, and you don't have to be fast to score on a homer. Put the fast guys in front of the worse hitters because they need the help getting the runs across.

Sometimes a bit better hitter 9th to turn the lineup over to the good hitters at the top

rudel.dietrich · 04-09-2020, 05:59 AM

I tend to use OPS+ and sort my hitters in order of the best at the top of the order.
Over the course of a season each spot on the order tends to get about. 20 more PA than the next lowest. So if I bat my best hitter at #1 vs #4 than that is 60 more chances to create runs.
And that is all hitting is, run creation.

jimmysthebestcop · 04-09-2020, 07:52 AM

New school way sort by woba that's your lineup. Don't forget about splits lefty/righty

Lineup importance goes 1, 2, 4, 5, 3, 6-9

Saber guys don't care about speed. That's old school traditionalist viewpoint.

thklein · 04-09-2020, 08:04 AM

Oh, in addition to ordering by WRC+ (using righty//lefty splits), I also try to alternate left handed and right handed hitters. So if I have four righties in a row, I might move a lefty up or down a spot or two to break them up. Just gives the opposing manager something else to worry about in bullpen usage.

RoteLaterne · 04-09-2020, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

New school way sort by woba that's your lineup. Don't forget about splits lefty/righty

Lineup importance goes 1, 2, 4, 5, 3, 6-9

Saber guys don't care about speed. That's old school traditionalist viewpoint.

You put the 3rd best guy behind 4 and 5 to "protect" them?
(not giving up walks to 4+5)

CBeisbol · 04-09-2020, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I tend to use OPS+ and sort my hitters in order of the best at the top of the order.
Over the course of a season each spot on the order tends to get about. 20 more PA than the next lowest. So if I bat my best hitter at #1 vs #4 than that is 60 more chances to create runs.
And that is all hitting is, run creation.

You also need to consider the circular nature of the lineup. Hitting your worst hitter in front of your best hitter is going to cost some runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmysthebestcop

Saber guys don't care about speed. That's old school traditionalist viewpoint.

This is not true
A faster (other base running being equal, of course) player is always better than a slower one.

PocketsAintFull · 04-09-2020, 10:49 AM

Typically no.1 will be the best contact/on-base/speed combination, no.2 will be a strong hitter somewhere in between that ^ and power, then no.3 the best power hitter, no.4 the next best. Normally the 2nd best contact/on-base/speed guy I’ll put 9th, to be on for the top of the lineup, unless there’s a serious quality drop with the no.5-8 batters. That’s with a DH, anyway. No-DH I tend to keep the pitcher 9th, but I need to read up on that more

(So basically, I want guys on-base fairly often for the ‘best’ hitters, and theoretically they have the space to use their speed.)

jimmysthebestcop · 04-09-2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoteLaterne

You put the 3rd best guy behind 4 and 5 to "protect" them?
(not giving up walks to 4+5)

Saber guys list it as

1, 2, 4, 5, 3

#3 is your 5th best bat. Pretty standard saber viewpoint.

thklein · 04-09-2020, 11:42 AM

A couple interesting articles on this topic:

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/gu...-sabermetrics/

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...your-lineup-by

RoteLaterne · 04-09-2020, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thklein

A couple interesting articles on this topic:

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/gu...-sabermetrics/

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...your-lineup-by

Nice read.

04-09-2020, 10:49 AM	#17
PocketsAintFull All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Birmingham, UK Posts: 1,771	Typically no.1 will be the best contact/on-base/speed combination, no.2 will be a strong hitter somewhere in between that ^ and power, then no.3 the best power hitter, no.4 the next best. Normally the 2nd best contact/on-base/speed guy I’ll put 9th, to be on for the top of the lineup, unless there’s a serious quality drop with the no.5-8 batters. That’s with a DH, anyway. No-DH I tend to keep the pitcher 9th, but I need to read up on that more (So basically, I want guys on-base fairly often for the ‘best’ hitters, and theoretically they have the space to use their speed.) __________________

04-09-2020, 11:42 AM	#19
thklein Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 300	A couple interesting articles on this topic: https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/gu...-sabermetrics/ https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/20...your-lineup-by Last edited by thklein; 04-09-2020 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Added a second link

04-08-2020, 04:06 PM	#1
RoteLaterne Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 387	Batting order? Hey folks, how do you sort your batting order? I mean, sorted by OPS, OBP? Any other idea? 4th-3rd-2nd-1st-5th-6th-7th-8th-9th Something like that? Any advice?

04-08-2020, 04:13 PM	#2
backupbatboy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 35	You can't simplify it that much. If a 3 outcome hitter (HR, K, BB) who runs like Bartolo Colon has your 4th best OPS, are you hitting him leadoff or second over someone with lower OPS (or higher I suppose) who doesn't strike out and runs well but also won't hit many homers?

04-08-2020, 04:45 PM	#6
thklein Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 300	I try to put my best on base guy at the top of the lineup. I don't worry about speed and stolen bases. I just want my best on base guy to get as many at bats as I can get him. Then I order them based on WRC+. Again, I want my best hitters at the top of the order to get them as many at bats as possible. WRC+ is my go to stat for this.

04-08-2020, 04:50 PM	#7
chazzycat All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,685	The main reason why batting order matters is simply because the hitters at the top of the order will compile a lot more PA over the course of a season, giving them a lot more opportunities. So there's something to be said for the simple approach of just sorting your players by an overall run production stat (I would recommend wRC+).

04-08-2020, 05:37 PM	#8
backupbatboy Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Mar 2020 Posts: 35	How I set my lineups in general.... 1 - Low K% + good speed (put the ball in play, get yourself into scoring position) 2 - Best hitter (who I would answer if someone asked "who is your best hitter?") 3 - Highest BA guy (after #2 spot if applicable. Don't care what kind of hit it is because someone should be in scoring position most of the time) 4 - Highest SLG guy (other than #2 & 3 if applicable) 5 - Highest OPS (other than #2-4) 6 - Behind top 5, best fit for leadoff 7 - Between 7 & 8, whoever hits more dingers, because the only two kinds of plate appearances are dingers and not dingers. 8 - Loser of the 7/8 dinger war, most likely the defensive minded catcher hitting below the Mendoza line 9 - Pitcher because I like Bartolo Colon hitting homers more than Edwin Encarnacion hitting homers Others may go by 1 stat. Or just by feel. I'd say I'm much more of the feel, using these general guidlines as how I typically do it.

04-09-2020, 03:37 AM	#11
CBeisbol Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Ban land in 3...2... Posts: 2,943	Best hitters 1,2 and 4 1 more OBP oriented 4 more ISO oriented Speed to the bottom of the order. If they can hit 7th, that's ideal. Then they are on base in front of what are likely some singles hitters. Speed is wasted in front of sluggers. One doesn't want to run into outs with a home run threat at the plate, and you don't have to be fast to score on a homer. Put the fast guys in front of the worse hitters because they need the help getting the runs across. Sometimes a bit better hitter 9th to turn the lineup over to the good hitters at the top

04-09-2020, 05:59 AM	#12
rudel.dietrich Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zürich, Switzerland Posts: 8,608 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I tend to use OPS+ and sort my hitters in order of the best at the top of the order. Over the course of a season each spot on the order tends to get about. 20 more PA than the next lowest. So if I bat my best hitter at #1 vs #4 than that is 60 more chances to create runs. And that is all hitting is, run creation.

04-09-2020, 07:52 AM	#13
jimmysthebestcop Banned Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 1,728 Infractions: 0/2 (5)	New school way sort by woba that's your lineup. Don't forget about splits lefty/righty Lineup importance goes 1, 2, 4, 5, 3, 6-9 Saber guys don't care about speed. That's old school traditionalist viewpoint.

04-09-2020, 08:04 AM	#14
thklein Major Leagues Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 300	Oh, in addition to ordering by WRC+ (using righty//lefty splits), I also try to alternate left handed and right handed hitters. So if I have four righties in a row, I might move a lefty up or down a spot or two to break them up. Just gives the opposing manager something else to worry about in bullpen usage.