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Old 04-07-2020, 01:11 AM   #81
Déjà Bru
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I am absolutely stunned that a thread like this exists. I understand that we're all missing our sports and entertainment, but c'mon people!

Canada and the U.S. are nowhere near testing all of their citizens. In fact, if I had to guess, I would say possibly 25% of their citizens may have been tested, and that figure might be too high.

A vaccine for the disease is nowhere in sight. PPE is running short all over the world. Canada makes the materials for the N-95 mask, and 3-M manufactures the actual masks themselves in the U.S., and the two countries can't figure out how to divvy them up properly. Ventilators are running short. Pretty sure hospital beds are running short. Entire hospitals are being converted into COVID-19 only hospitals, as is the navy hospital in New York.

Doctors and nurses are exhausted. Hospitals are way overcrowded. Police, fire, ambulance, and the paramedics in those ambulances are stretched to the limit, and all are at great risk for getting sick, which would put a further strain on the system. I see where a hospital has set up in Central Park. You've got navy ship hospitals in L.A. and New York (and maybe more). Convention centres in large urban centres are being converted into hospitals, possibly here in Toronto as well, I'm not sure. I saw on TV that the army was putting up a field hospital in my city (Toronto). Now it's starting to hit rural communities on both sides of the border. Those rural communities have neither the ICU beds, nor the supplies and staff to handle any kind of outbreak, and if there's one thing this illness has demonstrated, it's that outbreaks can happen anywhere. It doesn't care if it's goddamn inconvenient for your little community to get slammed with it all at once, it's just looking for as many hosts as possible to spread to.

It's like Crash Davis says in the mound visit scene from the 1988 classic "Bull Durham"..."We're dealing with a lot of sh!t here!". I've heard that South Korea and Hong Kong (and perhaps other countries that were hit first) have seen an increase in cases, after lifting the strict measures too early. The lesson from that is that you'd better be goddamned sure that this thing is gone before you start up again, and when you do start up, it'd be better to do it slowly rather than all at once. Binary decision making will not work with this thing. You can't go from a complete shutdown to business as usual on a dime. You're practically guaranteeing a return, and that return could be more virulent than the first wave.

Given all that, we're demanding that athletes get back to playing sports (which are games people...games...not life...games) post haste, tout de suite, because some of us are bored, and can't find other things to do while we wait? Seriously? We're asking athletes to put themselves in harm's way, which also affects their families, and basically the lives of every citizen if this pandemic gets cranked up again? I'm quite sure that the doctors, nurses, hospital cleaning, and other staff, police, firemen, paramedics etc on the front lines would like to punch anyone that holds this view right between the eyes, and I wouldn't blame them if they did. In fact, I might join them. They're dying on their feet exhausted, and you're asking them for more? This is the height of selfishness and brazen entitlement. Suck it up buttercups.

You just got OOTP21. FHM is out there. If you haven't got them, put some money in Markus' pockets, and get creating your universes. Go for a walk, but maintain that six foot distance at all costs. Go get groceries, which has become quite the adventure in case you haven't noticed. There are tons of TV shows and movies out there, and there is no way you've watched all of the good ones, let alone the trashy guilty pleasures that you know you can't help watching. Catch up on the good ones that you missed the first time around. If you enjoy gardening, do that. If you like working around the house, or tinkering in the garage, go for it. Maybe there's a small way you can help people that are in need out, without putting your health or their health at risk. Instead of focusing on how pissed you are about the lack of sports and entertainment going on right now, focus on how goddamned lucky you are that you're not dealing with the illness, or how goddamned lucky you are that you live in a part of the world that actually has resources and infrastructure. Think about those that are dealing with it. Hell, if you're dealing with it, I'll put you in my thoughts. But for goodness sake, stop demanding things that may worsen this crisis if they're done too soon because you're bleepin' bored! "A dull mind gets bored easily. A curious mind expands forever." - Maxime Lagace

I know for a fact that the population of dull minds on these boards is extremely low because dull minds do not gravitate towards OOTP. Use those curious minds of yours, with the knowledge that sports will not be gone forever. They're only gone for now. Please. Please. Please. Have some perspective.

Lives are at stake here. Like my near 90 year old mother, and my 92 year old aunt, stuck in their apartments in their long term care homes. My mom's at her breaking point because she can't get out for groceries, and has to rely on the home to provide her meals. She has no memory whatsoever, so she often gets missed because she has to remember to fill out the menu to have a tray brought up to her. She has to rely on me (I don't have a car, and it's not walkable, and public transit and taxis/uber aren't the most safe, sanitary options right now) or one of her friends (with cars, but who are all getting up there in age) to get her groceries, and bring them to a dropoff point at one of the entrances of the home. My aunt is stuck in quarantine, climbing the walls. I'm absolutely goddamned sure that you can think of people you know and love, that are in the same boat. Please show some patience for their sakes, and the sake of individuals in high risk categories. It's an oft repeated cliche right now, but it's true. We'll get through this. /end of rant
Wow, aj. You must have had that bottled up and finally had to let go! Quite a post, sir. Thanks.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:16 AM   #82
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But, I will add one thing. Everything you say is true, aj, but I for one will not give in to despair. I will survive this, and so will my friends and family, God willing, and so will my interest in sports survive.

It helps me to get through this by talking about sports, even the pipe dream of seeing it from quarantined and fanless venues. No doubt it's therapy for others, too.

We all know how serious this is but there is no use in getting down in the dumps to the point that we cannot talk about something as dumb as sports to pass the time and ease our anxieties.

EDIT: And this from one "buttercup" who may have spoken favorably about such pipe dreams earlier in this thread: In NO way would I advocate any such scheme if there were any possibility at all of a health risk to the players, staff members, or media personnel. If their safety cannot be guaranteed, then no, forget about it. I will wait for real sports to bloom again in the fall or next spring. I believe that to be a reasonable and unselfish opinion.
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Old 04-07-2020, 01:51 AM   #83
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In NO way would I advocate any such scheme if there were any possibility at all of a health risk to the players, staff members, or media personnel. If their safety cannot be guaranteed,
There safety ABSOLUTELY cannot be guaranteed.
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:05 AM   #84
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EDIT: And this from one "buttercup" who may have spoken favorably about such pipe dreams earlier in this thread: In NO way would I advocate any such scheme if there were any possibility at all of a health risk to the players, staff members, or media personnel. If their safety cannot be guaranteed, then no, forget about it. I will wait for real sports to bloom again in the fall or next spring. I believe that to be a reasonable and unselfish opinion.
Even if they could do it without risk. Even if it's theoretically possible. That doesn't mean it should be done. How many people would go to work under those conditions? You'd be asking them to be pent up like animals. Will they have plenty of hay? Even essential personnel don't have to do this. The only reason this is even being suggested is because athletes are not essential.
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Old 04-07-2020, 10:41 AM   #85
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Pretty ridiculous they cancelled a World Series to institute a salary cap (which failed anyways), but they're considering reopening play during the middle of a pandemic. Still, I give them the benefit of the doubt until they actually go through with this.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:12 AM   #86
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But, I will add one thing. Everything you say is true, aj, but I for one will not give in to despair. I will survive this, and so will my friends and family, God willing, and so will my interest in sports survive.

It helps me to get through this by talking about sports, even the pipe dream of seeing it from quarantined and fanless venues. No doubt it's therapy for others, too.

We all know how serious this is but there is no use in getting down in the dumps to the point that we cannot talk about something as dumb as sports to pass the time and ease our anxieties.

EDIT: And this from one "buttercup" who may have spoken favorably about such pipe dreams earlier in this thread: In NO way would I advocate any such scheme if there were any possibility at all of a health risk to the players, staff members, or media personnel. If their safety cannot be guaranteed, then no, forget about it. I will wait for real sports to bloom again in the fall or next spring. I believe that to be a reasonable and unselfish opinion.
I'm not giving into despair at all. I'm giving into reality. The reality is that there is sooo much we don't know about this virus. Positive tests are coming back for people who don't have it. Worse, negative tests are coming back for those that do. Recently, we've had morons hit the beach for spring break in huge throngs, and I believe I saw where 70 people chartered a plane to Mexico for a vacation, and upon return, 50 were infected. Several governors have still refused to implement strict measures to combat things. Business as usual people. Nothing to see here. As long as this level of abject stupidity persists, the apex of the virus is nowhere near being reached in this part of the world. Worse still is that people seem to have this mistaken notion that once it is reached and on the way down, everything will be peachy keen again. We should learn from Hong Kong and South Korea just how wrong headed this line of thinking is.

If you think I'm not absolutely climbing the walls for Blue Jays' baseball this year, you're dead wrong. 2017 and 2018 were absolutely, positively awful seasons for my team. There was a glimmer of hope last year with all the kids, and I was really, really looking forward to this year, not because I thought we were going to win as many as we lose (I think the number would've been somewhere between 75 and 85 wins), but because it was going to be sooo much fun to watch.

But honestly, I could not give one iota of a sh!t about it right now, and I think it's disgusting that they're targeting a May start date as of this morning. It's the dumbest, most ignorant, and selfish thing I've ever heard. It's not surprising, given the money involved, but it is so out of touch with the reality of what's going on. It demonstrates how much of a bubble these sports leagues are in, if they think this is a sane way forward.

It's a cash grab, nothing more, nothing less, and I can't believe any health official worth their salt, would think it's remotely sane, unless they were being pressured by somebody who has absolutely no clue about viruses on the scale of a pandemic, and how easily they spread. It's not about the lives of all those involved in the games they would be playing, both on and off the field. Those lives, the lives of ordinary citizens, and the people that are putting their lives on the line to fight this, along with grocery store workers, pharmacy workers etc. are going to be affected by the passing of a baseball from one person to the next, spitting, sweating, and the occasional bit of contact that goes on. The space between players, coaches and umpires when a baserunner reaches first ain't six feet. Nowhere near. It's sheer lunacy. You've seen how quickly colds and stomach viruses spread through teams. This ain't no cold. This is lethal, and this idea provides a locale for a re-igniting of it.

We can talk about sports, but let's keep those sports in the safe, simulation realm for now, until we know more about this thing. Please don't take it as me raking you over the coals for this. I want to see a return to normalcy ASAP too. I just can't see that happening anytime soon, without disastrous repercussions. If things get back to normal too soon, we're going to see a whole bunch of starting and stopping until we get it through our thick skulls just how damn virulent this thing is.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:21 AM   #87
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Ragnar's and aj's most recent posts have convinced me that this is indeed wrong. For, here's a crucial point: Even though MLB and the player's union have agreed to start baseball in May, that does not mean every player agrees as well. The financial and peer pressure is now on each player to comply, whether he feels safe or not. That is not right.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:30 AM   #88
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Well said!
Thank you. You're in Scarberia (slang for part of the Toronto area for those wondering what the hell I'm talking about) right? Pretty sure you've seen this. An outbreak at a 65-bed long term care facility in Bobcaygeon has now claimed 27 lives, one of them the spouse of a resident. The spouse dying means it has now spread outside the home to an area that has little to no resources to cope with this. I know you know this, but It. Doesn't. Care. Whether. Your. Area. Has. The. Resources. To. Deal. With. It. All it cares about is finding the next host.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:39 AM   #89
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aj, I am very impressed with your effusiveness on this issue. You should be up there standing side-by-side with Dr. Fauci.
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:13 PM   #90
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Even if they could do it without risk. Even if it's theoretically possible. That doesn't mean it should be done. How many people would go to work under those conditions? You'd be asking them to be pent up like animals. Will they have plenty of hay? Even essential personnel don't have to do this. The only reason this is even being suggested is because athletes are not essential.
And food service workers, hotel workers, security staff, clubhouse staff, janitorial workers, etc should all be locked up, away from their friends and family for months. For near minimum wage? So billionaires can lose less money? And entitled fans at home are calling for this?
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:32 PM   #91
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Ragnar's and aj's most recent posts have convinced me that this is indeed wrong. For, here's a crucial point: Even though MLB and the player's union have agreed to start baseball in May, that does not mean every player agrees as well. The financial and peer pressure is now on each player to comply, whether he feels safe or not. That is not right.
It's really bloody hard to accept. When it first started, I was like "Oh, I can still do this.", then reality smacked me in the face, and I was like "Oh. Well, I can still do that.", and gradually the list of things that I would normally do kept shrinking. I had a few wiser folks put me in my place about it on a Blue Jays' blog I frequent, and I've tried to watch, read, and learn as much as possible since then.

We're all kind of like the ball players we root for. If we fall into despair over this, we're done. If we all make the adjustments necessary (and really, what choice do you have?), we can get through this. It's up to all of us really.
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:34 PM   #92
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There safety ABSOLUTELY cannot be guaranteed.
So sports should never be restarted? Safety is never guaranteed.
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:35 PM   #93
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And food service workers, hotel workers, security staff, clubhouse staff, janitorial workers, etc should all be locked up, away from their friends and family for months. For near minimum wage? So billionaires can lose less money? And entitled fans at home are calling for this?
You're right about all of that of course. Just wanted to point out how much I love the Salman Rushdie quote. Bang on.
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:36 PM   #94
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So sports should never be restarted?
Do you think that's at all what I said?
Really?
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Old 04-07-2020, 04:38 PM   #95
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aj, I am very impressed with your effusiveness on this issue. You should be up there standing side-by-side with Dr. Fauci.
Thank you, but I think I'll just take his advice. He has 35 years of professional experience with this stuff, plus loads of schooling in it prior to choosing that area of medicine, to my zero seconds of school, or work.

Dr. Theresa Tam (Canadian doctor in charge), and Dr. David Williams (Ontario) are doing a very good job up here, and the political leaders aren't deviating from their recommendations so far. Generally, people are doing the 6 foot thing. I'm gonna sound like an old man here, but a lot of the people not following the guidelines are the young 'uns, who seem to think that because they're in a much lower risk group, they can do whatever the hell they want. See: Florida beach throngs, and the chartered plane to Mexico. Ah well, I remember feeling invincible, and being a young asshole too, so I guess I can give them a break. Except that this situation calls for actually giving a crap about others.

Convincing the states that can't be bothered with the guidelines or placing restrictions on the movement of their citizens or sizes of gatherings would be a good step, but nobody seems to want to do it. Yes, it ain't unbound freedom, but the potential ramifications of the alternative are extremely sub-optimal. Short term pain for long term gain should be the motto in these times.

Finding a way to convince churchgoers that perhaps it would be in everybody's best interest for them to find services online for now would be another step in the right direction. Obviously, being there to worship with family and friends is the most appealing option, except for right now. It isn't just about you, or me, or our families, or our friends. It's about everyone. It doesn't discriminate, or care if you're young, middle aged, old, rich, poor, black, white, yellow, brown, Christian, Atheist, right wing, centre-right, centre, centre-left, left wing, or anything in between. All it sees in all of us is a home in which to thrive. The most insidious thing about it is that you don't have to feel any symptoms at all to give it to someone else. It makes it very difficult to track, which is why waaay more testing is needed. Oops. Another rant.
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Old 04-07-2020, 04:56 PM   #96
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Thank you. You're in Scarberia (slang for part of the Toronto area for those wondering what the hell I'm talking about) right? Pretty sure you've seen this. An outbreak at a 65-bed long term care facility in Bobcaygeon has now claimed 27 lives, one of them the spouse of a resident. The spouse dying means it has now spread outside the home to an area that has little to no resources to cope with this. I know you know this, but It. Doesn't. Care. Whether. Your. Area. Has. The. Resources. To. Deal. With. It. All it cares about is finding the next host.
Yes I am in Scarborough. My nurse daughter works in one (Birchmount) of the three Scarborough hospitals. She has stories that would curl your hair after every shift.
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Old 04-07-2020, 05:57 PM   #97
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So sports should never be restarted? Safety is never guaranteed.
The gulf between not now and never is the size of the Grand Canyon. Sports will return, but it's quite fuzzy as to when for obvious reasons. The apex of the virus hasn't hit in this part of the world yet, and the health care system is already extremely overtaxed, and in an uphill fight to get on top of this. If you want to know just how overtaxed it is, ask RchW, as he just posted that his daughter is a nurse in a Toronto area hospital.

If we start up again too early, we risk re-igniting it, and it may come back even stronger, which puts everybody I mentioned above on high alert again. How many starts and stops will we have to go through before we figure out that this is not a drill or a joke? Between politicians, sports commissioners, and medical experts (particularly the epidemiologists), the people who know what they're talking about should be the ones advising when, how, and how quickly to get things moving towards normal again. Obviously, even they can't predict how things will go, because of how new this thing is, but I'll take the word of people who specialize in this stuff over anybody else when it comes to figuring out where to go from here.
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:08 PM   #98
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Ragnar's and aj's most recent posts have convinced me that this is indeed wrong. For, here's a crucial point: Even though MLB and the player's union have agreed to start baseball in May, that does not mean every player agrees as well. The financial and peer pressure is now on each player to comply, whether he feels safe or not. That is not right.
Fabulous point about the financial and peer pressure Bru. Looking at the chain of events that led to the announcement today, I can pretty confidently say that this pressure is not coming from the CDC or WHO, and they are the ones that need to be relied on (along with Dr. Fauci) when it comes to making these decisions, not those with a personal or financial stake in getting the big bread and circuses machine rolling again.
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Old 04-07-2020, 06:18 PM   #99
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Yes I am in Scarborough. My nurse daughter works in one (Birchmount) of the three Scarborough hospitals. She has stories that would curl your hair after every shift.
You can PM me with these stories if you don't feel like posting them here. Might help to share what it's like with somebody else. Would be pretty educational for me too. I get it if you don't want to though.

I hope your daughter manages to stay safe. We constantly call the medical/hospital staff, and anyone else working in these conditions "heroes", but those words ring pretty hollow if we're not doing everything we can as individuals to keep this from getting completely out of control.

What's going on in the hospitals is all nicely and neatly tucked away from prying, curious eyes, but I'm sure it's sheer chaos. I've seen a little bit of the hospital scenes in New York, and the juxtaposition of those scenes against starting up the sports leagues again gives me extremely painful whiplash.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:33 PM   #100
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Just wanted to say that RchW is one awesome dood (based on PM exchange that shall remain private), and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
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OOTP post re-FG IDs here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...postcount=3198

My DB which restores Fed Leaguers here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZoN...B2GCcULxt/view

Instructions for the DB: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...07&postcount=9



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