Let's Talk Defense

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by daves

So what is ZR or Zone rating represent?

It's a metric based on how difficult the plays are, rather than just the percent converted to outs.


From the manual:

ZR - "Zone Rating" - developed by John Dewan, A player gets credit (a "plus" number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a "minus" number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play. Each play is looked at individually, and a score is given for each play. Sum up all the plays for each player at his position and you get his total plus/minus for the season. A total plus/minus score near zero means the player is average. A score above zero is above average and a negative score is below average.

[Maddox]

There seems to be so much discussion still about Stuff vs Movement and Ground Ball vs Fly ball that I may just look for pitchers with the best overall ratings at the various categories that I can find (and that I can afford). If I can find a couple of each type to experiment with then even better.

One pitcher I would like to try but don't necessarily want to spend the points to try is Carlos Martinez. His control is sub par but his stuff and movement are decent and he is a ground ball pitcher. He has never been great in my previous attempts to use him (and there have been several) and I wonder how he would do with a more elite defense backing him up. My previous defenses were suspect at best

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by Maddox

There seems to be so much discussion still about Stuff vs Movement and Ground Ball vs Fly ball that I may just look for pitchers with the best overall ratings at the various categories that I can find (and that I can afford). If I can find a couple of each type to experiment with then even better.

One pitcher I would like to try but don't necessarily want to spend the points to try is Carlos Martinez. His control is sub par but his stuff and movement are decent and he is a ground ball pitcher. He has never been great in my previous attempts to use him (and there have been several) and I wonder how he would do with a more elite defense backing him up. My previous defenses were suspect at best

You can't defend walks.

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Maddox

One pitcher I would like to try but don't necessarily want to spend the points to try is Carlos Martinez. His control is sub par but his stuff and movement are decent and he is a ground ball pitcher. He has never been great in my previous attempts to use him (and there have been several) and I wonder how he would do with a more elite defense backing him up. My previous defenses were suspect at best

I like this strategy. If you need to pick a weakness in a pitcher, walks aren't the end of the world, when you can wipe them out with double plays on the regular.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by atabakin

You can't defend walks.

Good point. But at the levels I am looking to be competitive in (Bronze - Gold) and the money I have to spend you're not going to be able to find many pitchers without a weakness in some area.


The main reason I brought up Martinez is because he has been on both of my other teams and is still pitching on my all Cardinals team so I have some history to compare.

[NomarHits400]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

I've got a team that has turned into a monster defensively. Team has only a 2.50 era overall with four pitchers in the top four for the league in ERA (two under 2.00).

C - Tony Pena
1B - Dan T Murphy (not great defensively but had to have a bat)
2B - Mark Belanger
3B - Luis Aparicio
SS - Andrelton Simmons
LF - Kevin Pillar (stellar zone rating)
CF - Willie Wilson
RF - Richie Ashburn

SS's can be trained to be crazy good at other infield positions. I like having the best defensive catchers I can find since the entire staff benefits. A.J. Puk has a 1.89 ERA and Cal Quantrill is 1.40.

Question: Doesn't Pillar have better range than Wilson? And if so, wouldn't he be better utilized in CF?

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by NomarHits400

Question: Doesn't Pillar have better range than Wilson? And if so, wouldn't he be better utilized in CF?

Yes, he's been moved back. I had him in LF due to a test I was running. Wanted to see how the combined stats of the two players compared when reversed.

[bobbycockstrong]

Originally Posted by Maddox

Thanks for the tip. I have swapped McReynold's and Ichiro's positions. Best to do it now since I have 3 more days of 24/7 simming in the entry league to get them as high as I can. That should be almost a full season worth of games.

Position ratings will not carry over from entry into bronze, you will have to do this all over - just FYI. They will carry from bronze to whatever leagues you move up to though.

[Maddox]

Originally Posted by bobbycockstrong

Position ratings will not carry over from entry into bronze, you will have to do this all over - just FYI. They will carry from bronze to whatever leagues you move up to though.

Yeah somebody mentioned that earlier. Hopefully a full season in bronze starting next week will see them make good progress. They are already in the 40 fielding range since I swapped them last night.

For now I am still trying to decide on a pitching strategy before I go shopping for starters.

[Joshrapley]

There is a team in my league (Gold .319) who has his BP Factors set to the following:

AVG OVR 1.100
AVG LHB 1.100
AVG RHB 1.100
Doubles 1.500
Triples 1.500
HR OVR .900
HR LHB .900
HR RHB .900

His Outfield consists of Pillar LF (120), White CF (100) and Robles RF (84). All elite outfielders that all have 11.0ZR or above so but also 70 or above for Gap Power. Perfectly aligned to his BP.

All of his SP have above 65 for MOV and CON. Some have 50 or under Stuff. Allowed the fewest HR in the league but has the 2nd worst SO rate.

The rest of his team consist of players who can defend and hit for GAP POW. None hit for HR at all.

The team are currently 75-46 and 40-19 at Home. No Diamond Players, 8 Gold Players, the rest Silvers and Bronze. They were promoted twice in two seasons with a record of 109-53. First season in GoL finished 85-77 and missed the play offs. Now set for promotion to Diamond.

I think this is a great example of building an competitive team on the cheap and utilising every advantage possible.

[Thalion]

That’s a pretty standard speedball/contact/defense team setup

[chazzycat]

standard maybe, but effective. That's exactly how I got my $40 team to perfect level.

[Maddox]

So, here is what will most likely be my starting rotation for Bronze. You'll notice that "for scientific reasons" I have a pitcher of every type. We'll see if one benefits from the defense more than others. Nobody is lacking significantly in either Stuff or Movement and only Carlos Martinez is severely lacking in control.

We'll see how Dennis Martinez does with his high movement rating.

[Izz]

That's a pretty balanced rotation. Your defense should complement it nicely.

Not in front of the PC right now but my Dennis Martinez has been excellent this season with an improved defense behind him (well, all my pitchers have benefited greatly, but Martinez' ERA was just a touch above 2.00 last time I checked in)

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

standard maybe, but effective. That's exactly how I got my $40 team to perfect level.

How are they doing in Perfect. My free team is in a perfect league whereas my pay team has stalled at diamond. The free team is defensive heavy while the pay team is more offense minded with defense up the middle.

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

How are they doing in Perfect. My free team is in a perfect league whereas my pay team has stalled at diamond. The free team is defensive heavy while the pay team is more offense minded with defense up the middle.

Well I’m currently in a tight division race with a much more talented team, but it looks like I should make the playoffs as wild card at the minimum. Definitely competitive, but it depends on the league each week. Last week in a tougher division and league, I was around .500.

[omniart]

Hey! That's 3/5ths of my rotation. Sad Sam Jones, Dennis Martínez, and Bob Ojeda are still in my starting five up here in Perfect League.

[Maddox]

Interesting note from the first time through the new rotation

BABIP
.100 - Extreme Groundball Pitcher
.222 - Groundball Pitcher
.263 - Neutral Pitcher
.280 - Extreme Flyball Pitcher
.357 - Flyball Pitcher

Obviously you can't base anything on one start but a lot of the talk was stating that the ground ball guys would have the worst BABIP so I found it interesting.

All 5 pitchers got the player of the game in their first starts.

[bobbycockstrong]

Originally Posted by Joshrapley

There is a team in my league (Gold .319) who has his BP Factors set to the following:

AVG OVR 1.100
AVG LHB 1.100
AVG RHB 1.100
Doubles 1.500
Triples 1.500
HR OVR .900
HR LHB .900
HR RHB .900

His Outfield consists of Pillar LF (120), White CF (100) and Robles RF (84). All elite outfielders that all have 11.0ZR or above so but also 70 or above for Gap Power. Perfectly aligned to his BP.

All of his SP have above 65 for MOV and CON. Some have 50 or under Stuff. Allowed the fewest HR in the league but has the 2nd worst SO rate.

The rest of his team consist of players who can defend and hit for GAP POW. None hit for HR at all.

The team are currently 75-46 and 40-19 at Home. No Diamond Players, 8 Gold Players, the rest Silvers and Bronze. They were promoted twice in two seasons with a record of 109-53. First season in GoL finished 85-77 and missed the play offs. Now set for promotion to Diamond.

I think this is a great example of building an competitive team on the cheap and utilising every advantage possible.

I thought factors were capped at 1.1? Can you really have "1.5" for doubles and triples?

[atabakin]

Originally Posted by bobbycockstrong

I thought factors were capped at 1.1? Can you really have "1.5" for doubles and triples?

That's the cap for AVG and HR only.