Competitive balance discussion - Page 2

The Otter · 11-09-2018, 04:09 AM

You know, I had kind of wondered if the odds were somewhat higher in the beta. It would make sense -- as a way to test a fuller range of player cards than would normally be expected in the first couple weeks/seasons of a league, etc. Of course, I think Markus specifically stated that this wasn't the case, so who knows?

In my last 8 packs, I've opened two 100 players (DeGrom and Trout) and a 93 (Matt Carpenter -- who I actually ended up selling, because his ratings weren't that great, I already had a 3B, and I needed PP to win an auction.) If diamond players are supposed to constitute 1/100 of cards, and perfect cards 1/1000, this seems like unusually good luck. Of course, it's all anecdotal, but I'm seeing a number of anecdotes of this sort...

If it's harder in the full release to get multiple elite cards by simply buying a dozen packs or so, the game goes back to favoring players who can work the auction house to their advantage, find undervalued cards, recognize team needs, and so on.

Well, it favors players who can do that and players who buy hundreds of packs. I still think that's going to be a relatively rare occurrence, though, and in my experience, the biggest spenders on these kind of games tend to be players who don't necessarily have the skill or understanding to use their resources wisely.

(In the game, I mean. Possibly also in general, but who am I to judge?)

Markus Heinsohn · 11-09-2018, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Otter

In my last 8 packs, I've opened two 100 players (DeGrom and Trout) and a 93 (Matt Carpenter -- who I actually ended up selling, because his ratings weren't that great, I already had a 3B, and I needed PP to win an auction.) If diamond players are supposed to constitute 1/100 of cards, and perfect cards 1/1000, this seems like unusually good luck. Of course, it's all anecdotal, but I'm seeing a number of anecdotes of this sort...

This is awesome luck. Enjoy it while it lasts.

The odds that are live now (which are essentially the same as the start of beta) will remain that way when we officially launch PT

Kushiel · 11-09-2018, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

This is awesome luck. Enjoy it while it lasts.

The odds that are live now (which are essentially the same as the start of beta) will remain that way when we officially launch PT

I had pretty good luck on the initial draw too. Ever since, while having a great time, I have had acid in my stomach thinking about the payback for me on the first real draw.

DWoofer · 11-12-2018, 11:56 PM

Need some advice. My team got put into a league where most of the other teams have better cards. Consequently, I'm losing almost every game and not getting many PP points, so I can't improve. Meanwhile the better teams are getting lots of PP points and getting even better, so the gap continues to widen. Are there any good strategies for overcoming this other than waiting for the season to end and hopefully get into an easier league? Thanks.

tcblcommish · 11-13-2018, 12:03 AM

If you arent getting any PP you really only have 2 options. Ride the season out, take the beatings and move on the next year or buy PP and try to improve. This is the awful part about the F2P players, they get stuck like that and will get whitewashed however its just a week so try to play around with line ups and see if anything works

wolfslice · 11-13-2018, 12:08 AM

"Not getting many PP points" is the real questionable statement here. Not getting many pp points relative to what, the WS winner? 400-500pp is a reasonable day, from what I've seen, though on the low end. If you're getting 500-800, thats basically a silver player a day you can upgrade to. Maybe every 2 days, if you're really having a run of bad luck.

Obviously make sure you have your line ups and depth charts in order. As well as strategy sliders.. I just went with Sabermetric since it works IRL, even if I dislike it. I'm not smart enough to figure out the exact right sliders for my team makeup, but I'm still picking up wins.

And the league is only a week, so even in a really bad division (I was in the roughest division in my league last season), it wont be long before you're placed somewhere more comfortable.

edm · 11-13-2018, 12:16 AM

I say those of us with 5+ game losing streaks should get some points out of pity, I know I've had a few myself

genuvar · 11-13-2018, 12:37 AM

You dont get a whole lot of PP win or lose unless you hit one of those rare achievements that gives you a bunch. Also, bronze and silver players can still win some games so dont stress if you dont have what looks like a good team. My 2004 Ichiro Suzuki (69 overall) and 1986 Wally Backman (63 overall) are some of my best players.

Tip: You can find both of those guys for less then 100 PP last time I checked in the auction house

DWoofer · 11-13-2018, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfslice

"Not getting many PP points" is the real questionable statement here. Not getting many pp points relative to what, the WS winner? 400-500pp is a reasonable day, from what I've seen, though on the low end...

My team is 5-20 and I've gotten a total of 70 PP points the entire season. 40 of those came in the last game. Meanwhile if others are really getting 400+ every day, they will rapidly be pulling even farther ahead of me. I can continue to slowly improve my team, but most others will likely be improving more.

My team did better in entry play, and I had a lot of fun, but it's not very enjoyable now. I'm not interested in paying for points after already paying for the game, so I guess I just wait a week and hope for better next week.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

mikezone13 · 11-13-2018, 02:50 AM

I do like the idea of a 'reward' of PP for turning around a losing streak, doesn't have to be big, but gives you something to grab hold of as you seek out that win.

Perhaps rewards for losing streaks being snapped are:

Turning the corner (after a 5 game streak is snapped)
Nearly a dozen (after a 10 game streak is snapped)
You really should get a new job (after a 15 game streak is snapped)
What, you're still managing? (after a 20 game streak is snapped)

Markus Heinsohn · 11-13-2018, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikezone13

I do like the idea of a 'reward' of PP for turning around a losing streak, doesn't have to be big, but gives you something to grab hold of as you seek out that win.

Already implemented. See here:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=295290

mikezone13 · 11-13-2018, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Already implemented. See here:
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=295290

Nice work!!

This doesn't encouraging tanking, but gives you a boost when the inevitable slide does hit and you're at a level that is a bit too tough for you compete at.

mlstarr · 11-13-2018, 08:19 AM

As my team has gotten better I've actually been making less PP than before just because of changes in strategy. I started off opening Trea Turner and totally lucked into a bunch of PP when he had 6 SB in a game. I had my strategy set to the extremes of my player strengths and that seemed to pay off. I think he had something like 50 CS during the entry pool, but he stole multiple bases so frequently that I had a steady and sometimes high PP stream. Try getting some players with obvious strengths and set your strategy and lineups to try and maximize their individual game performances. If you're not competitive in the league you're in anyway, you might as well focus on PP strategy.

captainbuttercream · 11-13-2018, 09:31 AM

There are ways to cheese out PP if you aren't concerned about team record. Load your team up with speedy contact hitters to aim for the 4/5 and 3 stolen base achievements. These guys can be found dirt cheap. Dee Gordon, Travis Jankowski, either Ichiro, there are plenty of others.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-13-2018, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainbuttercream

There are ways to cheese out PP if you aren't concerned about team record. Load your team up with speedy contact hitters to aim for the 4/5 and 3 stolen base achievements. These guys can be found dirt cheap. Dee Gordon, Travis Jankowski, either Ichiro, there are plenty of others.

You don't even have to do this with a whole team, thanks to the individual player strategy settings. On my team strategy overall, I just have stealing set to a little more frequent than average, but I have Trea Turner and Lou Brock, and have their strategy settings for stealing cranked to the max. Doesn't even necessarily hurt my record, because it's only two players. I have guys like Brantley, Pham, and Bogaerts to drive them in after they get on base and immediately steal second.

I think the 3-SB achievement has been my most frequent.

Galeg · 11-13-2018, 10:07 AM

If you have a player that could make a decent price on in the auction house, you might think of selling to take a chance on a few packs that might upgrade multiple positions on your team.

captainbuttercream · 11-13-2018, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

You don't even have to do this with a whole team, thanks to the individual player strategy settings. On my team strategy overall, I just have stealing set to a little more frequent than average, but I have Trea Turner and Lou Brock, and have their strategy settings for stealing cranked to the max. Doesn't even necessarily hurt my record, because it's only two players. I have guys like Brantley, Pham, and Bogaerts to drive them in after they get on base and immediately steal second.

I think the 3-SB achievement has been my most frequent.

Yeah, I usually have between 2-3 guys with they aggressiveness turned all the way up. Typically my leadoff hitter, the guy in the 6th spot to get in to scoring position for the singles hitters behind him, and the 9th spot for when the line up turns over.

One Post Wonder · 11-13-2018, 11:38 AM

There needs to be something in place where someone in a higher league who loses 100 games will earn as much as someone in a lower league who wins 90. Being in a higher league should always earn more money than being in a lower league. A block payment at the beginning of the year, scaled achievement points... something.

Look at the English Football pyramid. Generally when a team gets promoted they spend the next year getting hammered and trying to avoid relegation. Does anyone think that those teams would compete so hard for promotion if being promoted would cause them to lose 90% of their income? This new change simply means that you're losing 80% of your income now instead of 90%. It will also mean that a team which goes 50-112 will earn more pp than a team which goes 65-97 which seems odd.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-13-2018, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Post Wonder

There needs to be something in place where someone in a higher league who loses 100 games will earn as much as someone in a lower league who wins 90. Being in a higher league should always earn more money than being in a lower league. A block payment at the beginning of the year, scaled achievement points... something.

I've already earned more PP in a month of A-ball than I did in the last two or three months in Rookie league combined. I added a single player, Xander Bogaerts, and I'm going up against "better" competition, if we're judging by the number of 80+ ranked cards they have.

It's luck, plain and simple. I've beaten up on Diamond pitchers and gotten shut out by Bronze ones. You're getting overly obsessed with the idea that the league above yours is going to have a talent gap so wide that promoted teams won't be able to compete. But the volatility of baseball in general completely mitigates that.

Whoofe · 11-13-2018, 12:46 PM

I earned less than 200 PPs the first month of new season, and am unable to improve my team. I guess going 5-23 will do that LOL

I do have a fair amount of silvers on my team, but they underperformed in April. hopefully the rest of the season i'll get a few lucky games

waiting to get demoted so I can get back to a moderate earning rate with teams my level

11-12-2018, 11:56 PM	#24
DWoofer Bat Boy Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 18	Rich get richer, weak get weaker Need some advice. My team got put into a league where most of the other teams have better cards. Consequently, I'm losing almost every game and not getting many PP points, so I can't improve. Meanwhile the better teams are getting lots of PP points and getting even better, so the gap continues to widen. Are there any good strategies for overcoming this other than waiting for the season to end and hopefully get into an easier league? Thanks.

11-13-2018, 02:50 AM	#30
mikezone13 All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 533	I do like the idea of a 'reward' of PP for turning around a losing streak, doesn't have to be big, but gives you something to grab hold of as you seek out that win. Perhaps rewards for losing streaks being snapped are: Turning the corner (after a 5 game streak is snapped) Nearly a dozen (after a 10 game streak is snapped) You really should get a new job (after a 15 game streak is snapped) What, you're still managing? (after a 20 game streak is snapped) __________________ AFBL New Jersey Athletics FOD Boston Shamrocks GLBL Milwaukee Eagles HRBL Toronto Stags PBF Commish only ABL (old SBC) Commish only

11-13-2018, 11:38 AM	#38
One Post Wonder All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 538	There needs to be something in place where someone in a higher league who loses 100 games will earn as much as someone in a lower league who wins 90. Being in a higher league should always earn more money than being in a lower league. A block payment at the beginning of the year, scaled achievement points... something. Look at the English Football pyramid. Generally when a team gets promoted they spend the next year getting hammered and trying to avoid relegation. Does anyone think that those teams would compete so hard for promotion if being promoted would cause them to lose 90% of their income? This new change simply means that you're losing 80% of your income now instead of 90%. It will also mean that a team which goes 50-112 will earn more pp than a team which goes 65-97 which seems odd. Last edited by One Post Wonder; 11-13-2018 at 11:40 AM.

11-09-2018, 04:09 AM	#21
The Otter Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 41	You know, I had kind of wondered if the odds were somewhat higher in the beta. It would make sense -- as a way to test a fuller range of player cards than would normally be expected in the first couple weeks/seasons of a league, etc. Of course, I think Markus specifically stated that this wasn't the case, so who knows? In my last 8 packs, I've opened two 100 players (DeGrom and Trout) and a 93 (Matt Carpenter -- who I actually ended up selling, because his ratings weren't that great, I already had a 3B, and I needed PP to win an auction.) If diamond players are supposed to constitute 1/100 of cards, and perfect cards 1/1000, this seems like unusually good luck. Of course, it's all anecdotal, but I'm seeing a number of anecdotes of this sort... If it's harder in the full release to get multiple elite cards by simply buying a dozen packs or so, the game goes back to favoring players who can work the auction house to their advantage, find undervalued cards, recognize team needs, and so on. Well, it favors players who can do that and players who buy hundreds of packs. I still think that's going to be a relatively rare occurrence, though, and in my experience, the biggest spenders on these kind of games tend to be players who don't necessarily have the skill or understanding to use their resources wisely. (In the game, I mean. Possibly also in general, but who am I to judge?)

11-13-2018, 12:03 AM	#25
tcblcommish Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 3,435	If you arent getting any PP you really only have 2 options. Ride the season out, take the beatings and move on the next year or buy PP and try to improve. This is the awful part about the F2P players, they get stuck like that and will get whitewashed however its just a week so try to play around with line ups and see if anything works

11-13-2018, 12:08 AM	#26
wolfslice Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 67	"Not getting many PP points" is the real questionable statement here. Not getting many pp points relative to what, the WS winner? 400-500pp is a reasonable day, from what I've seen, though on the low end. If you're getting 500-800, thats basically a silver player a day you can upgrade to. Maybe every 2 days, if you're really having a run of bad luck. Obviously make sure you have your line ups and depth charts in order. As well as strategy sliders.. I just went with Sabermetric since it works IRL, even if I dislike it. I'm not smart enough to figure out the exact right sliders for my team makeup, but I'm still picking up wins. And the league is only a week, so even in a really bad division (I was in the roughest division in my league last season), it wont be long before you're placed somewhere more comfortable.

11-13-2018, 12:16 AM	#27
edm All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,991	I say those of us with 5+ game losing streaks should get some points out of pity, I know I've had a few myself

11-13-2018, 12:37 AM	#28
genuvar Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 96	You dont get a whole lot of PP win or lose unless you hit one of those rare achievements that gives you a bunch. Also, bronze and silver players can still win some games so dont stress if you dont have what looks like a good team. My 2004 Ichiro Suzuki (69 overall) and 1986 Wally Backman (63 overall) are some of my best players. Tip: You can find both of those guys for less then 100 PP last time I checked in the auction house

11-13-2018, 08:19 AM	#33
mlstarr Bat Boy Join Date: Nov 2018 Posts: 4	As my team has gotten better I've actually been making less PP than before just because of changes in strategy. I started off opening Trea Turner and totally lucked into a bunch of PP when he had 6 SB in a game. I had my strategy set to the extremes of my player strengths and that seemed to pay off. I think he had something like 50 CS during the entry pool, but he stole multiple bases so frequently that I had a steady and sometimes high PP stream. Try getting some players with obvious strengths and set your strategy and lineups to try and maximize their individual game performances. If you're not competitive in the league you're in anyway, you might as well focus on PP strategy.

11-13-2018, 09:31 AM	#34
captainbuttercream Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2018 Location: Indiana Posts: 109	There are ways to cheese out PP if you aren't concerned about team record. Load your team up with speedy contact hitters to aim for the 4/5 and 3 stolen base achievements. These guys can be found dirt cheap. Dee Gordon, Travis Jankowski, either Ichiro, there are plenty of others.

11-13-2018, 10:07 AM	#36
Galeg Major Leagues Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 400	If you have a player that could make a decent price on in the auction house, you might think of selling to take a chance on a few packs that might upgrade multiple positions on your team.

11-13-2018, 12:46 PM	#40
Whoofe All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 590	I earned less than 200 PPs the first month of new season, and am unable to improve my team. I guess going 5-23 will do that LOL I do have a fair amount of silvers on my team, but they underperformed in April. hopefully the rest of the season i'll get a few lucky games waiting to get demoted so I can get back to a moderate earning rate with teams my level