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OOTP 19 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 04-04-2018, 10:44 PM   #1
wwines
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Random Debut Confusion

Hey All, after reading the great threads in the OOTP 18 Forum and some of the ones in the OOTP 19 Forum I have decided to jump into the Random Debut pool. Here is the issue, I am extremely confused on how to set up the league. Is there a getting started type thread anywhere or would some of the more experienced Random Debut players be willing to answer some questions? Thanks in advance for the help.
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Old 04-05-2018, 01:49 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwines View Post
Hey All, after reading the great threads in the OOTP 18 Forum and some of the ones in the OOTP 19 Forum I have decided to jump into the Random Debut pool. Here is the issue, I am extremely confused on how to set up the league. Is there a getting started type thread anywhere or would some of the more experienced Random Debut players be willing to answer some questions? Thanks in advance for the help.
Why don't we use this thread? What exactly is confusing you?
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:09 PM   #3
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I will also help, if I can, but the master above is a much better resource.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:33 PM   #4
warneke
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I would like to be part of this conversation too, so I am going to quote the section from the manual next to Use random players from all eras instead of real rosters

Quote:
Use this option to enable OOTP's "random debut" feature. This causes OOTP to fill teams with random players from the historical database. Once a player is randomly selected, the game selects a random career year, uses this as the base for the current ratings (also depending on what mode, it uses recalc settings too for example) and sets the player's age accordingly. Ratings are calculated based on comparison to league totals of the base year (i.e. Ruth is picked, and then the game randomly chooses the year 1927 as the import year for him) and then adjusted to a neutral era. That means that players are relatively comparable. A player who hit 20% more homeruns (park-adjusted) than league average in 1969 will get the same power rating as a player who hit 20% more HR than league average in 2001, despite the absolute HR numbers being different. Of course, there are some adjustments made, otherwise we would have too many extreme cases from the early years, and extreme dominating players like Ruth had to be toned down a bit too.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:45 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by warneke View Post
I would like to be part of this conversation too, so I am going to quote the section from the manual next to Use random players from all eras instead of real rosters
This is not quite true. It is true for the Inaugural Draft. Definitely the players come in at all different stages of their respective careers.

After that though, they enter as rookies in the Amateur Draft as they would if one were playing a straight historical game. A little misleading on the manual's part, but what I just said is how it works.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:49 PM   #6
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I will also help, if I can, but the master above is a much better resource.
I am far from the Grand Master Poobah of Random Debut Historicals though. That would be VanillaGorilla. Perhaps a bit before your time, but he put random debut historicals on the map with his relentless testing and reporting of his findings.
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Old 04-05-2018, 04:54 PM   #7
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I am sorry I never saw any of Vanilla Gorilla’s work. Mad at myself for being late to this party and not discovering this great game until three years ago. You and Mr. Watts seem to have assumed the mantle of leadership in this area.
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Old 04-05-2018, 05:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by warneke View Post
I would like to be part of this conversation too, so I am going to quote the section from the manual next to Use random players from all eras instead of real rosters
Thanks Warneke. I never knew this part about the ratings being made comparable in this way.
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Old 04-06-2018, 03:11 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by actionjackson View Post
This is not quite true. It is true for the Inaugural Draft. Definitely the players come in at all different stages of their respective careers.

After that though, they enter as rookies in the Amateur Draft as they would if one were playing a straight historical game. A little misleading on the manual's part, but what I just said is how it works.
Yeah I understand that.

So, how do you set up your base year in a Random Debut League? Do you choose a start year and let 'er rip? This is my main question.

Also, do you use Recalc totals for players and/or use Player Development? I know that is a wider topic, but it seems relevant here because in my experience without using recalc the AI often gives a Fragile Injury ratingt to imported rookies who didnt play much their first season, which of course applies to a lot of rookies--and so then you have players who were actually Durable for most their career stuck with a Fragile rating for the entire replay, unless you manually edit the Injury Setting.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:06 PM   #10
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I use 5 year recalc based on Real Stats along with the development engine. I usually start in 1901 but now tie the stats to 1976 using the league totals on the Stats & AI tab. Actionjackson explains this in double weighted stats thread. Early 20th century using the actual year’s stats are too much pitching oriented for my liking, so I use ‘76 stats. I don’t mess with individual injury settings. Actionjackson or David Watts will give more and better advice on settings.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:04 PM   #11
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Yeah I understand that.

So, how do you set up your base year in a Random Debut League? Do you choose a start year and let 'er rip? This is my main question.

Also, do you use Recalc totals for players and/or use Player Development? I know that is a wider topic, but it seems relevant here because in my experience without using recalc the AI often gives a Fragile Injury ratingt to imported rookies who didnt play much their first season, which of course applies to a lot of rookies--and so then you have players who were actually Durable for most their career stuck with a Fragile rating for the entire replay, unless you manually edit the Injury Setting.
How I set my league up is...complicated. I start in 1901 (by 1901 AL and NL were established IRL and things are a lot less messy than the 19th century was), but I use 1984 strategy settings and stats output for every season. This helps me avoid both deadball and bazookaball nonsense, and allows relief pitchers to actually do something instead of sitting down in the bullpen watching the starters throw CG after CG. I also take all players in the random debut database (i.e. 1871 through 2017) even though this goes against Markus' recommendations, because I just can't rule any of them out, even though the 19th century pitchers can be a bit beastly.

I use recalc plus development so that those players that run out of RL stats are subject to the player development engine, and don't just recalc ad infinitum based on their last season (this is only what I imagine happens - I don't know if it actually does). As for injuries I don't even look at individual injury ratings. I just turn them off and let what happens happen. I also never delay the injury diagnosis even though that's unrealistic and not really what happens IRL. I turn injuries on, set them to Normal (OOTP Classic), set position player fatigue to Average, and enable suspensions at normal frequency.

If I'm using Real Stats, I will use 5-year recalc double weighted for the current year, and if I'm using Neutralized Stats, I will use 3-year recalc double weighted for the current year. I base fielding ratings and pitcher stamina on a 3-year period rather than just the player's current year or the player's entire career.

Last edited by actionjackson; 04-06-2018 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 04-07-2018, 10:17 AM   #12
wwines
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Glad to see I am not the only one confused. My main areas of confusion are the following:

What is the difference between Real Stats and Neutralized Stats, and what effect do they have on the game?

Is it best to use minors or reserve roster?

Will the current in game database have Negro and Japan players or is it necessary to use the Spritze database?

Financials on or off or do they not matter?

Reserve clause rules or current MLB Free Agency set up?

Thanks for the help guys!!!
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by wwines View Post
Glad to see I am not the only one confused. My main areas of confusion are the following:

What is the difference between Real Stats and Neutralized Stats, and what effect do they have on the game?

Is it best to use minors or reserve roster?

Will the current in game database have Negro and Japan players or is it necessary to use the Spritze database?

Financials on or off or do they not matter?

Reserve clause rules or current MLB Free Agency set up?

Thanks for the help guys!!!
Real Stats = The actual stats a player accumulated IRL, supposedly not adjusted for ballpark, era, run scoring environment etc, but there is some adjustment that goes on in Random Debut. I think this is to allow for players that had high relative pop in their era, but had a low HR total to hit HR appropriate to the era you transport them to. Same thing for pitchers that had a high strikeout rate relative to their era, to allow for them to strikeout an appropriate amount of hitters relative to the era that they are transported to.

Neutralized Stats = Player stats are neutralized to a 750-run (per team per 162 games) environment, adjusted for ballpark, era, run scoring environment etc. They are also used to fill in any gaps that may have existed in a player's career (e.g. injuries, wartime service, early retirement with a return to the game later) with a typical season for that player. Watch out though. With Neutralized Stats some position players who pitched extremely rarely (e.g. Ted Williams) will become pitchers in their gap years (i.e. Ted's wartime service years). There are pros and cons to both. You have to decide what's right for you. Of course, you can always replace players with players from the Spritze database if you don't like where their stats may lead them, but remember the Spritze database does not feature the neutralized to a 750-run environment feature that Neutralized Stats do. It's more a case of stats being based on MLEs (Major League Equivalents).

I myself use unlimited reserve rosters because I'm a bit of a simpleton and I like a simple setup. It also helps to avoid the sign/release/sign/release/sign/release bug that has plagued this game for a while now. It's also easier on the AI (and me). Anything that helps the AI helps improve the quality of your game in my eyes, even if it's not "real" baseball.

I use the Spritze database to import players who played outside of MLB, but they can also be imported from the MiLB database. Just remember to get the code right because it's a different code for each player from the MLB database code.

I use financials, but it's really up to you whether you want to use them or not. Turning them off will turn off the possibility of free agency of course, which is a valuable part of talent distribution in your league, but a game can still be played with them off.

With regard to reserve clause era rules or free agency, again it depends on what you're comfortable with. Maybe you want the reserve clause throughout baseball history. Maybe you want things to unfold as they actually did IRL, or maybe you want free agency throughout history. One of the strengths of OOTP is its customization. It can be customized to your heart's content or you can play it basically as is out of the proverbial box.

Enjoy the game.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:48 PM   #14
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I play with reserve rosters, 15 players. But I have unaffiliated minors from which Major League clubs can purchase players.
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Old 04-07-2018, 05:46 PM   #15
Beirnej1
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How many teams do you guys normally use?
The inaugural draft, are you guys picking a team and drafting or simming it and let the ai do it all?

I’ve gone through the inaugural draft twice so far in ‘19 and decided to control one team. My team ended up being predicted to win 114 games both times. Needless to say I haven’t been happy with the inaugural draft results. The computer has made a lot of questionable picks

Any tips on how you guys handle it?
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:11 PM   #16
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I draft in the unaugural draft woth the goal being a .500 team. So i never take superstars. Just good, functional players. It took a while but i got the hang of it.
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:34 PM   #17
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How many teams do you guys normally use?
The inaugural draft, are you guys picking a team and drafting or simming it and let the ai do it all?

I’ve gone through the inaugural draft twice so far in ‘19 and decided to control one team. My team ended up being predicted to win 114 games both times. Needless to say I haven’t been happy with the inaugural draft results. The computer has made a lot of questionable picks

Any tips on how you guys handle it?
I start in 1901 and take whatever the MLB setup gives me, so at the beginning it's 16 teams and stays that way for quite a while. I let the AI do everything. I'm merely the commissioner/record keeper/official historian etc etc etc.

Try leaving "Use pre-defined draft value for AI" unchecked during inaugural draft/expansion draft, but checked for your ammy drafts. It's designed to help distribute the players more evenly. The reason you don't want to use it during inaugural/expansion drafts is that great players may get drafted with early picks at age 36 or whatever, and while their careers may have been great, they are likely on the downside of them. Sounds like the Inaugural Draft could use some overhauling. There may be a bug in there somewhere, so you might want to report it in the bug reports forum. AI needs to do a better job, so you don't come out of the gates with an uber-team.
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Old 04-07-2018, 07:29 PM   #18
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As above I start in ‘01 which gives the sixteen teams. With my rosters set at 45 there are more than enough players in the inaugural draft, 744 I believe, to get started with a league. I check the number in the free agent pool as I progress slowly through January and February ‘01. Once most ML rosters are at or near 45 I check the number of free agents again along with the split between pitchers and hitters in the pool. There are usually enough players in FA pool to start my first independent AAA league of eight teams. So I usually start 1901with 24 teams at two levels. Start with 1976 stats totals and then away we go with the league. Not quite as easy as it sounds because I have made many mistakes and had to blow up a number of leagues because I missed a setting or settings. I have learned from my mistakes and by asking questions in these forums. To tell the truth I have not noticed the problem being reported with inaugural draft but I have never looked for a problem. Early in my HRD’s I have enough to do making sure my settings are correct for the league. I have just finished 1907 in what I am calling my “test” setup and have 16 Major League teams along with three 8 team unaffiliated AAA leagues for a 40 team universe. I add a league of between 6 and 8 teams every time the free agent pool approaches 300. Every year the Major League has a 5 round draft with enough players for 6 rounds. No draft for AAA, they fill their rosters from the FA pool. Still ironing out some errors, refining my off season routine for financials, setting up leagues Indy leagues, checking stats, and assigning league totals before beginning a new season. Once this is completed and a few more updates come out from OOTP I hope to start my “real” league in 1901 with the goal of running it for 100+ years.

Last edited by JaBurns; 04-07-2018 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:43 PM   #19
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I stand corrected after reading some other posts, in the inaugural draft there are enough players for 44 per team. Thinking back what I do is have the first draft in December 1901 of 5 rounds with enough players for 12 rounds. Then that allows me start my first AAA league with a free agent draft on 2 Jan 02. Then I keep the same draft rules for December 1902 which allows for the second AAA league draft on 2 Jan 1903. Then the draft is cut back to enough players for 6 rounds which allows the third AAA league draft about 2 Jan 07. By 1907 I have forty teams which where I am at presently in my league. I think I will run this test league until about 1920 or until I am confident with my set up and workings of my league. This plan is always subject to change or “necessary” modifications which are constant with my mild OCD and convoluted ideas.

Last edited by JaBurns; 04-07-2018 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:12 PM   #20
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After running many sims to get stats where I want them I have actually started a game and took over a team just before opening day everyone is under a one year contract, am I correct in assuming that since they are all rookies they are all arbitration eligible and I don't have to negotiate with each and every one of them?
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