Pitcher injury issue

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by slugga27

And it sometimes credits the wrong pitcher with a win, in the event of the lead changing, and holding up, in the ensuinmg half inning.

Right. It's a very rare occurrence, but there's a whole lot wrong with how OOTP handles it.

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by slugga27

And it sometimes credits the wrong pitcher with a win, in the event of the lead changing, and holding up, in the ensuinmg half inning.

I've seen that myself, though at the time I didn't know the reason. It's a further point in favor of relaxing the game's adherence to Rule 3.05.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

I've seen that myself, though at the time I didn't know the reason. It's a further point in favor of relaxing the game's adherence to Rule 3.05.

That rule doesn't even apply to the situation. The issue at heart (or at least at the heart of the OP) is that the game forces you to replace the pitcher when he's injured on the final play of an inning. There's no MLB rule that says the replacement has to be entered then, but OOTP requires the substitution immediately, which causes problems if the pitcher's spot comes up to hit in the next half inning.

The reason the game credits the wrong winning pitcher is because the user is forced to put a new pitcher in even though his team is now hitting. That pitcher immediately becomes the pitcher of record before his team begins its turn at bat. His team then takes the lead, making the new pitcher the pitcher of record, when (if OOTP followed MLB rules), the injured pitcher would still be in the game and therefore the pitcher of record.

Rule 3.05 was brought into the discussion (by me) when someone said he likes to pinch hit for his starter in the top of the first. Rule 3.05 prohibits that, but as others have posted, OOTP does not follow that.

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

That rule doesn't even apply to the situation. The issue at heart (or at least at the heart of the OP) is that the game forces you to replace the pitcher when he's injured on the final play of an inning. There's no MLB rule that says the replacement has to be entered then, but OOTP requires the substitution immediately, which causes problems if the pitcher's spot comes up to hit in the next half inning.

The reason the game credits the wrong winning pitcher is because the user is forced to put a new pitcher in even though his team is now hitting. That pitcher immediately becomes the pitcher of record before his team begins its turn at bat. His team then takes the lead, making the new pitcher the pitcher of record, when (if OOTP followed MLB rules), the injured pitcher would still be in the game and therefore the pitcher of record.

Rule 3.05 was brought into the discussion (by me) when someone said he likes to pinch hit for his starter in the top of the first. Rule 3.05 prohibits that, but as others have posted, OOTP does not follow that.

I see your point and will mentally relegate this problem to the realm of life's insoluble quandaries, like Fermat's Last Theorem.

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

That rule doesn't even apply to the situation. The issue at heart (or at least at the heart of the OP) is that the game forces you to replace the pitcher when he's injured on the final play of an inning. There's no MLB rule that says the replacement has to be entered then, but OOTP requires the substitution immediately, which causes problems if the pitcher's spot comes up to hit in the next half inning.

The reason the game credits the wrong winning pitcher is because the user is forced to put a new pitcher in even though his team is now hitting. That pitcher immediately becomes the pitcher of record before his team begins its turn at bat. His team then takes the lead, making the new pitcher the pitcher of record, when (if OOTP followed MLB rules), the injured pitcher would still be in the game and therefore the pitcher of record.

Rule 3.05 was brought into the discussion (by me) when someone said he likes to pinch hit for his starter in the top of the first. Rule 3.05 prohibits that, but as others have posted, OOTP does not follow that.

To be fair, if there was a way for us to edit box scores/stats, then we wouldn't need OOTP to change the way it handles pitcher injuries in this scenario. It would simply be remedied by editing the stats of the pitchers in question should the wrong pitcher be credited with the win.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by slugga27

To be fair, if there was a way for us to edit box scores/stats, then we wouldn't need OOTP to change the way it handles pitcher injuries in this scenario. It would simply be remedied by editing the stats of the pitchers in question should the wrong pitcher be credited with the win.

Yes, that would be a solution. But IMO, the best solution is the one that makes the game work correctly in the first place, not one that gives us a way to fix the game's mistake.

However, I do realize this one (very rare) situation could be just about impossible to code correctly.

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Yes, that would be a solution. But IMO, the best solution is the one that makes the game work correctly in the first place, not one that gives us a way to fix the game's mistake.

However, I do realize this one (very rare) situation could be just about impossible to code correctly.

A partial corrective that might not be too difficult to code would be not to award a pitcher a decision if he didn't actually throw any pitches. That would eliminate spurious statistics even if it didn't deal with the underlying problem.

[Dubie1947]

Hi slugga27

BIG17EASY is correct. The best way would be to fix the game's mistake and that could be done in most cases. However, there are times that it's just not feasible.

There is a way to correct stats and box scores though. You can export and import ML stats with a function on the League Settings page. The saved information is located in saved games import_export folder as a txt file. The stats are somewhat cumbersome to change because there is a huge amount of comma separated data in each file. I generally import the player/year specific data into excel to correct te data, I reconvert it back into the comma separated data format.

The bpx scores can also be changed but this is even more complicated because they saved in html format. I usually don't bother doing this.

Note that there a few other stat problems in the game. One of these days I'll list them in detail when I get a chance (probably in a different forum topic). One of the main problems is that defensive double plays are sometimes not properly accounted for. In most cases a DP will be something like 6-4-3. The game handles this correctly

[Dubie1947]

Whoops - sorry for the aborted post. To restate my last thought:

Note that there a few other stat problems in the game. One of these days I'll list them in detail when I get a chance (probably in a different forum topic). One of the main problems is that defensive double plays are sometimes not properly accounted for. In most cases a DP will be something like 6-4-3. The game handles this correctly assigning 1 DP to the SS, 2B and 1B.

However, the game does not handle this correctly. Groundball to SS who steps on the 2nd base and then throws to the 1B for the double play (i.e. a 6-3 double play). In this case the game assigns 2 DP for the SS and 1 for the 1B. Obviously the SS should get credit for only one DP.

I'll be happy to discuss more if needed.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by TomVeal

A partial corrective that might not be too difficult to code would be not to award a pitcher a decision if he didn't actually throw any pitches. That would eliminate spurious statistics even if it didn't deal with the underlying problem.

This post from Steve earlier in this thread explains why that is not possible and the underlying reason this happens in the first place.

Originally Posted by SteveP

I can't give you a precise answer about the coding, but the game design clearly requires that all spots in the lineup be filled at all times, period. And when a player is injured, he is removed from the lineup immediately, leaving a vacancy in the lineup, which the game engine must fill immediately.

It is an inherent characteristic of the game engine, and apparently can't be fixed. A related matter: when the AI replaces an injured with another pitcher in the situation you describe, the new pitcher is credited with one pitch. That makes it "legal" for you (or the AI) to PH for that new pitcher or to replace that pitcher with someone else immediately. However, it can cause some unusual results in crediting things like ERs and Win-Loss.

Hope that at least answers your question.

[Number4]

Is it AI only or both for the player and the AI?

I'd insert yesterday's starter to "hold the fort", not intending him to pitch or bat in any case, but if he gets credited for a pitch that might disturb his rest day...

[TomVeal]

Originally Posted by Number4

Is it AI only or both for the player and the AI?

I'd insert yesterday's starter to "hold the fort", not intending him to pitch or bat in any case, but if he gets credited for a pitch that might disturb his rest day...

It's been established (or at least stated in earlier posts by people who appear to know) that a player can't pinch hit for a pitcher who hasn't met the conditions of Rule 3.05. It isn't clear to me what "legality" necessitates crediting a single phantom pitch (which isn't enough in itself to satisfy Rule 3.05) to a replacement pitcher who never throws a real one. In any event, if the reliever does really pitch, the program knows enough to remove the phantom pitch from his pitch count. Is there a reason why it couldn't similarly remove a win or loss that derived from the phantom?