Tournement Rankings

HelpDodgers · 11-13-2019, 04:34 PM

In my opinion, there needs to be some kind of ranking system outside the team restrictions. Like Hearthstone does.

If not, you are just going to have the top players bottom-feed on the rest.

Maybe tournaments that you can only enter if you never won a tournament or your win % in tournaments is under a certain %

All it is going to do now is feed the rich.

<-- in OOTP 20, I am not the rich.

dkgo · 11-13-2019, 04:44 PM

What? No. The whole point of bronze, live silver, etc is that anyone can afford whatever team they want to play in them.

The open tournaments are not meant for every pleb to be able to win.

GlassGuyBob · 11-13-2019, 05:02 PM

I have great silver teams on my F2P teams and have won some tournaments already. Sure I'll never have all the best diamonds but I don't feel like I have to win at everything to enjoy tournaments.

HelpDodgers · 11-13-2019, 05:35 PM

You guys are the exceptions to the rule.

Every whale can afford all the best gold and silver players. Gold and Silver players can't afford all the best gold and silver players. So it will not come down to managing, it will come down to who can purchase the 74 Ichiro (whose price went from a 12K PP avg to 25K PP).

Orcin · 11-13-2019, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelpDodgers

You guys are the exceptions to the rule.

Every whale can afford all the best gold and silver players. Gold and Silver players can't afford all the best gold and silver players. So it will not come down to managing, it will come down to who can purchase the 74 Ichiro (whose price went from a 12K PP avg to 25K PP).

This can't be right. We have heard for months and months that tournaments will be the great equalizer between the whales and the f2p players. Now you are saying that the people with the most points will bid up the price of the better players? NO ONE saw this coming!

dkgo · 11-13-2019, 06:35 PM

We've also known for months that there would be silver tourneys and 74 ichiro is a good silver card. Why wouldn't you buy it earlier if you were interested in playing silver tournaments?

However it's a moot point since he is a liar and his post is blatantly false given the current last 7 for 74 Ichiro is 9,250 (6,000 all-time, so a small jump) and there is one available right now at 10K/17K which has been up nearly a day.

One Great Matrix · 11-13-2019, 07:01 PM

I kept some cards with tournaments in mind...

There was a brief period where I wasn't sure whether they were going to become a reality in this version that I sold a few cards I otherwise might have kept.

Is this post a joke?

Dogberry99 · 11-14-2019, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelpDodgers

In my opinion, there needs to be some kind of ranking system outside the team restrictions.

I agree with this section of the post. Some sort of Ladder ranking or Elo rating system that spans tournaments would be an interesting addition that expands the gaming experience beyond the constraints of any single tournament/league, allowing for a deeper experience.

Another way to expand and deepen the experience could be to allow tournaments with prerequisites. This has been a popular idea when discussed within the context of a Champion's League, but the prerequisites could theoretically span the full breadth of the player base. Pushing this to the extreme, everyone being eligible for some type of special tournament wouldn't necessarily harm the exclusivity of being eligible for specific prestigious tournaments.

One other point worth discussing from this thread is the relationship between whales and f2p-ers. It was always the case that whales would be in a position of advantage in every tournament. Money creates an inherent privilege, and in the context of this game specifically, this is fine, appropriate, and proper. The hope with tournaments is that the possibility of specialization would allow F2P-ers some opportunities to be competitive. They would never surpass whales, but with certain roster and team restrictions, they can approach the level of whales more economically.

Humans are going to human though, and many F2P-ers will see their failures - which could be caused by improper evaluations of the cards, poor strategies, or even simple RNG bad luck - as a continuation of the whale domination they are so accustomed to from the main game. Some of these people will come to these forums where there posts will be loud wrong. Forgive them, and understand where they are coming from and how that creates filters and biases through which they view their world. One day, with help, they may even be able to lose those biases.

Hostility will change nothing. Hostility only makes people defensive and recalcitrant to change. We all need to do a better job of not being toxic - all of us.

HelpDodgers · 11-14-2019, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

We've also known for months that there would be silver tourneys and 74 ichiro is a good silver card. Why wouldn't you buy it earlier if you were interested in playing silver tournaments?

However it's a moot point since he is a liar and his post is blatantly false given the current last 7 for 74 Ichiro is 9,250 (6,000 all-time, so a small jump) and there is one available right now at 10K/17K which has been up nearly a day.

Wow, I'd really prefer not to be called a liar and not to be attacked personally. Thanks. You can apologize if you want. You don't know me.

I never said the AVERAGE went up to 25K.... I said the card was a 12K average and not it is being sold for 25K

Westheim · 11-14-2019, 06:55 AM

I don't see the player base as being big enough to faciliate much of a ladder at all, especially for the bigger tournaments and dailies. So you are splitting the base in half or in thirds for the quick silvers? They're still a crapshot at best. Across a dozen silver tournaments my teams entered, my Rebs have reached the semifinals every time, and the Raccoons reached them not once despite having a vastly bigger selection of cards and a much better silver roster. Everybody can beat everybody in low-level quick tournaments (silver and below) if it's only a best-of-3 or single elimination especially. So for half the tournaments, a ladder would be random and meaningless.

Dogberry99 · 11-14-2019, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

I don't see the player base as being big enough to faciliate much of a ladder at all, especially for the bigger tournaments and dailies. So you are splitting the base in half or in thirds for the quick silvers? They're still a crapshot at best. Across a dozen silver tournaments my teams entered, my Rebs have reached the semifinals every time, and the Raccoons reached them not once despite having a vastly bigger selection of cards and a much better silver roster. Everybody can beat everybody in low-level quick tournaments (silver and below) if it's only a best-of-3 or single elimination especially. So for half the tournaments, a ladder would be random and meaningless.

I was picturing it as being more access to special events than a strict segregation of the entirety of the user base. I agree that complete divisions of this already small community would likely not work well.

I also see a benefit to having more trackable measures of success than just PL titles

Westheim · 11-14-2019, 07:02 AM

In the end you'd want a tournament for "smaller" teams then? Not: you must be "this tall", but rather "this small" to enter a tournament. Out of the blue, say, a weekly that awards diamond packs (2 for the winner, 1 for second, 5k PP for semifinalists), but only teams in at most Silver League can enter? That sure keeps the "whales" out.

Now, and only OOTPD have the numbers - how many teams that are in Silver League and below *now* are completely inactive? Haven't logged in in months. What is the actual potential player base for that sort of tournament?

Dogberry99 · 11-14-2019, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

In the end you'd want a tournament for "smaller" teams then? Not: you must be "this tall", but rather "this small" to enter a tournament. Out of the blue, say, a weekly that awards diamond packs (2 for the winner, 1 for second, 5k PP for semifinalists), but only teams in at most Silver League can enter? That sure keeps the "whales" out.

Now, and only OOTPD have the numbers - how many teams that are in Silver League and below *now* are completely inactive? Haven't logged in in months. What is the actual potential player base for that sort of tournament?

I simply see value in more "event" tournaments, in whatever form they take. I see value in a tournament event (though probably not all events because exclusivity is a draw) being accessible in some form or another to most of the player base. I believe that turning something into an "event" increases the demand for it, and I think that there is room for this to work with tournaments. I don't think any of this needs to be tied directly to our league in the main game - it would probably be much better if it were not. I'm not sure where this idea came from, as I did not mean to suggest that it be based on our league, so I apologize if I've added to the confusion.

Also, even if the "event" idea is deemed to be inappropriate for whatever reason, I still see value in having more alternate ways for team to measure their success and compare their performances to other teams.

Bunktown Ballers · 11-14-2019, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelpDodgers

You guys are the exceptions to the rule.

Every whale can afford all the best gold and silver players. Gold and Silver players can't afford all the best gold and silver players. So it will not come down to managing, it will come down to who can purchase the 74 Ichiro (whose price went from a 12K PP avg to 25K PP).

I know I scream about whales hanging around in 1 league to long, but in this Tourney Play you can pick & choose what you want to play in. Shame on whatever team complains about not having a chance to win in open Tourney's. You have choices all up and down Tourney. I've played everyone I found I was eligible for as much as I could with & without success. I have zero complaints on Tourney...GAME CHANGER for me...love to challenge

HelpDodgers · 11-14-2019, 09:02 AM

I may come off as complaining... no no no. Tourney is beta. Mine was an idea to help everyone enjoy the game.

Morgans Magic · 11-17-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

We've also known for months that there would be silver tourneys and 74 ichiro is a good silver card. Why wouldn't you buy it earlier if you were interested in playing silver tournaments?

However it's a moot point since he is a liar and his post is blatantly false given the current last 7 for 74 Ichiro is 9,250 (6,000 all-time, so a small jump) and there is one available right now at 10K/17K which has been up nearly a day.

Just how quickly do you think people accumulate points who are F2P?

Why didn't he buy it earlier? OK Whale.

Maybe he didn't want to spend the 6K on Tourneys that may-or-may-not materialize and instead spend them on his actual team.

The More You Know....

daves · 11-17-2019, 12:48 PM

So how are pairings in tournaments determined?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

quickstep76 · 11-17-2019, 01:05 PM

Totally disagree with the OP. Sure, in the open tourneys the whales have an advantage because they can load up on perfects and diamonds and have that advantage. Anyone else can still win, but since they have the money, they do have the advantage.
That's not the case in the silver/bronze tourneys, and especially not in the salary cap tourneys. Even if you were a whale and bought every silver and bronze card, picking 25 players that will win a tourney is another story. Do you go with a 5 man bench? All starters in the bullpen? 4 man rotation?

Also, ask 10 people who the best bronze players are, and you'll get 10 different answers. Just look at the lineups who have won the bronze and silver tourneys and most of them are wildly different.

Morgans Magic · 11-17-2019, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickstep76

Also, ask 10 people who the best bronze players are, and you'll get 10 different answers. Just look at the lineups who have won the bronze and silver tourneys and most of them are wildly different.

Really? You think? I beg to disagree. Maybe w/r/t starting pitching, but not hitting or relievers.

I'm gonna pull the names of a dozen bronze/silver winners & Runners up that I've participated and will report back, along with availability/cost on AH. Back in a jiff.

Morgans Magic · 11-17-2019, 03:41 PM

C
Lavalliere 11 (800-1.2K)
Dickey 4 (UNAVAIL)
Berra 2 (UNAVIL)
Boone 2 (50-100 / 3.8-4K)

1b
K.Hernandez 9 (3 iterations, 900-2.5K)

Don Mattingly 6 (7, DH) (6-8.5K)
Wes Parker 2 (UNAVAIL)
Bill Terry 2 (UNAVAIL)

2b
Oquendo 5 (unavail)

Herman 3 (UNAVAIL)

Fox 3 (5K-7.5K)

Cash 2 (750-1.3K)

DMurphy 2 (1.3-4K)

ss
Groat 8 (4K)

Aparicio 6 (UNAVAIL)
Simmons 5 (2.4K)

3b
Figgins 7 (1.6K)
Dandrigde 3 (UNAVAIL)

Kell 2 (1.4-1.7K)

LF
PRose 5 (4.5-5.5K)

Brantley 5 (UNAVAIL)
Tucker 2 (UNAVAIL)
C. Maxwell 2 (UNAVIL)
RWhite 2 (1K)

CF
Flood 6 (UNAVAIL)
Dimaggio 3 (4.8-5K)
Pinson 3 (750-3K)
Devon White 2 (1K)
McGee 2 (UNAVAIL)

RF
Gwynn 10 (not counting DH) (350-500/ 4.6K-6K)

Suzuki 4 (10K-15K)

Oliva 2 (800-1.8K)

BHerman 2 (UNAVAIL)

DH
Gwynn 7
Carew 5 (750-1.5K )

D Walker 3 (2.5K-3K)

YOungs 2 (UNAVAIL)

RP
VIzcaino 8 (275-800K)

H Freeman 6 (UNAVAIL)

Tekulve 5 (1K)
Tuivailala 5 (UNAVAIL)
T Hunter 5 (230)

SP
B Colon 9 (1.8K-2K)

Ray Brown 8 (4.4-5K)

Newman 8 (UNAVAIL)

Puk 6 (3K !!!)

I think there is quite a great deal of consensus. To say everyone chooses different guys is utter nonsense.

These were culled from Silver - which has even more choices than Bronze, and yet people gravitate to most of the same players for the simple reason that these are the best. Are they only marginally better than other players? perhaps. But to the above point, 10 different guys probably choose 50-70% of the same players. And if there isn't an influx of cards coming in to the AH then low supply vs. demand creates issues esp if there are more than enough ppl to pay these kinds of costs because they've got a little cash to burn and for Whales it's super cheap to build a great team in Silver as opposed to Gold or Diamond.

11-13-2019, 04:34 PM	#1
HelpDodgers Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 307	Tournement Rankings In my opinion, there needs to be some kind of ranking system outside the team restrictions. Like Hearthstone does. If not, you are just going to have the top players bottom-feed on the rest. Maybe tournaments that you can only enter if you never won a tournament or your win % in tournaments is under a certain % All it is going to do now is feed the rich. <-- in OOTP 20, I am not the rich.

11-13-2019, 04:44 PM	#2
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	What? No. The whole point of bronze, live silver, etc is that anyone can afford whatever team they want to play in them. The open tournaments are not meant for every pleb to be able to win. Last edited by dkgo; 11-13-2019 at 04:45 PM.

11-13-2019, 05:02 PM	#3
GlassGuyBob Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 121	I have great silver teams on my F2P teams and have won some tournaments already. Sure I'll never have all the best diamonds but I don't feel like I have to win at everything to enjoy tournaments. __________________

11-13-2019, 06:35 PM	#6
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	We've also known for months that there would be silver tourneys and 74 ichiro is a good silver card. Why wouldn't you buy it earlier if you were interested in playing silver tournaments? However it's a moot point since he is a liar and his post is blatantly false given the current last 7 for 74 Ichiro is 9,250 (6,000 all-time, so a small jump) and there is one available right now at 10K/17K which has been up nearly a day. Last edited by dkgo; 11-13-2019 at 06:39 PM.

11-13-2019, 07:01 PM	#7
One Great Matrix All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 1,782	I kept some cards with tournaments in mind... There was a brief period where I wasn't sure whether they were going to become a reality in this version that I sold a few cards I otherwise might have kept. Is this post a joke? __________________

11-13-2019, 05:35 PM	#4
HelpDodgers Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 307	You guys are the exceptions to the rule. Every whale can afford all the best gold and silver players. Gold and Silver players can't afford all the best gold and silver players. So it will not come down to managing, it will come down to who can purchase the 74 Ichiro (whose price went from a 12K PP avg to 25K PP).

11-14-2019, 06:55 AM	#10
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 11,887	I don't see the player base as being big enough to faciliate much of a ladder at all, especially for the bigger tournaments and dailies. So you are splitting the base in half or in thirds for the quick silvers? They're still a crapshot at best. Across a dozen silver tournaments my teams entered, my Rebs have reached the semifinals every time, and the Raccoons reached them not once despite having a vastly bigger selection of cards and a much better silver roster. Everybody can beat everybody in low-level quick tournaments (silver and below) if it's only a best-of-3 or single elimination especially. So for half the tournaments, a ladder would be random and meaningless. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

11-14-2019, 07:02 AM	#12
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 11,887	In the end you'd want a tournament for "smaller" teams then? Not: you must be "this tall", but rather "this small" to enter a tournament. Out of the blue, say, a weekly that awards diamond packs (2 for the winner, 1 for second, 5k PP for semifinalists), but only teams in at most Silver League can enter? That sure keeps the "whales" out. Now, and only OOTPD have the numbers - how many teams that are in Silver League and below now are completely inactive? Haven't logged in in months. What is the actual potential player base for that sort of tournament? __________________ Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

11-14-2019, 09:02 AM	#15
HelpDodgers Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 307	I may come off as complaining... no no no. Tourney is beta. Mine was an idea to help everyone enjoy the game.

11-17-2019, 12:48 PM	#17
daves Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,632	So how are pairings in tournaments determined? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________

11-17-2019, 01:05 PM	#18
quickstep76 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 86	Totally disagree with the OP. Sure, in the open tourneys the whales have an advantage because they can load up on perfects and diamonds and have that advantage. Anyone else can still win, but since they have the money, they do have the advantage. That's not the case in the silver/bronze tourneys, and especially not in the salary cap tourneys. Even if you were a whale and bought every silver and bronze card, picking 25 players that will win a tourney is another story. Do you go with a 5 man bench? All starters in the bullpen? 4 man rotation? Also, ask 10 people who the best bronze players are, and you'll get 10 different answers. Just look at the lineups who have won the bronze and silver tourneys and most of them are wildly different.

11-17-2019, 03:41 PM	#20
Morgans Magic Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 66	C Lavalliere 11 (800-1.2K) Dickey 4 (UNAVAIL) Berra 2 (UNAVIL) Boone 2 (50-100 / 3.8-4K) 1b K.Hernandez 9 (3 iterations, 900-2.5K) Don Mattingly 6 (7, DH) (6-8.5K) Wes Parker 2 (UNAVAIL) Bill Terry 2 (UNAVAIL) 2b Oquendo 5 (unavail) Herman 3 (UNAVAIL) Fox 3 (5K-7.5K) Cash 2 (750-1.3K) DMurphy 2 (1.3-4K) ss Groat 8 (4K) Aparicio 6 (UNAVAIL) Simmons 5 (2.4K) 3b Figgins 7 (1.6K) Dandrigde 3 (UNAVAIL) Kell 2 (1.4-1.7K) LF PRose 5 (4.5-5.5K) Brantley 5 (UNAVAIL) Tucker 2 (UNAVAIL) C. Maxwell 2 (UNAVIL) RWhite 2 (1K) CF Flood 6 (UNAVAIL) Dimaggio 3 (4.8-5K) Pinson 3 (750-3K) Devon White 2 (1K) McGee 2 (UNAVAIL) RF Gwynn 10 (not counting DH) (350-500/ 4.6K-6K) Suzuki 4 (10K-15K) Oliva 2 (800-1.8K) BHerman 2 (UNAVAIL) DH Gwynn 7 Carew 5 (750-1.5K ) D Walker 3 (2.5K-3K) YOungs 2 (UNAVAIL) RP VIzcaino 8 (275-800K) H Freeman 6 (UNAVAIL) Tekulve 5 (1K) Tuivailala 5 (UNAVAIL) T Hunter 5 (230) SP B Colon 9 (1.8K-2K) Ray Brown 8 (4.4-5K) Newman 8 (UNAVAIL) Puk 6 (3K !!!) I think there is quite a great deal of consensus. To say everyone chooses different guys is utter nonsense. These were culled from Silver - which has even more choices than Bronze, and yet people gravitate to most of the same players for the simple reason that these are the best. Are they only marginally better than other players? perhaps. But to the above point, 10 different guys probably choose 50-70% of the same players. And if there isn't an influx of cards coming in to the AH then low supply vs. demand creates issues esp if there are more than enough ppl to pay these kinds of costs because they've got a little cash to burn and for Whales it's super cheap to build a great team in Silver as opposed to Gold or Diamond. Last edited by Morgans Magic; 11-17-2019 at 03:44 PM.