Trading Hard Mode

[TheBrewCrew]

Are you using it? Interested on what people are doing.

[tcblcommish]

I am using it because I do like the idea of not being able to just hit a button and complete a trade but I will say that my assistant gm is a tool. He has great ratings and yet when I tried to make a deal, he says no way should we do this deal, we aren't getting enough in return and then I get the response of you're joking from the other teams gm and my rep dropped quite a bit even though it was a solid trade.

I think to make it where I want it, I'm going to drop the difficulty and use it and see if I can find my happy place.

Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk

[TheBrewCrew]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

I am using it because I do like the idea of not being able to just hit a button and complete a trade but I will say that my assistant gm is a tool. He has great ratings and yet when I tried to make a deal, he says no way should we do this deal, we aren't getting enough in return and then I get the response of you're joking from the other teams gm and my rep dropped quite a bit even though it was a solid trade.

I think to make it where I want it, I'm going to drop the difficulty and use it and see if I can find my happy place.

Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk

Ya, that's kind of where I'm at too I think. I feel it's more immersive.

I just always take over rebuilds and literally just blow it up hard every time so it's more time consuming. Just gotta get used to it I think.

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by TheBrewCrew

Ya, that's kind of where I'm at too I think. I feel it's more immersive.



I just always take over rebuilds and literally just blow it up hard every time so it's more time consuming. Just gotta get used to it I think.

Thats exactly why I want to use it. Have to think more about the deals now than put up a couple and click make it work now

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[texasmame]

Trading/negotiations are one of my favorite things in the game; I can go hours from team to team, hoping to make improvements for my team.

So, no, not using it.

I do use the "trade reputation" thingie but don't really see any benefit or drawback to doing so; seems kind of worthless. Shame in that they could've spent that coding time tracking POTG awards. Equally as stupid and worthless, but at least that's a fun stat to look at.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by texasmame

Trading/negotiations are one of my favorite things in the game; I can go hours from team to team, hoping to make improvements for my team.

So, no, not using it.

I do use the "trade reputation" thingie but don't really see any benefit or drawback to doing so; seems kind of worthless. Shame in that they could've spent that coding time tracking POTG awards. Equally as stupid and worthless, but at least that's a fun stat to look at.

I believe the idea is to use them in combination for the proper affect. On "hard" you have to submit the trade to get an answer. If the AI accepts and you back out, that is where your rep gets dinged. Without using the "hard" setting that won't happen because, as before, you already know the outcome of the trade before hitting submit. Yes, there are times, on "normal" trading, you can hit submit without knowing the answer, but you never actually have to. You can, again on normal, always work the trade until you know it can be completed, just like all previous versions.

While "hard" does close this door I had hoped (actually thought when announced) it would also work in "normal" mode too. IE, I think they could make it work in "normal" by simply having your rep dinged once you added enough the AI accepted and the "complete" button became active. If that's too restrictive then have X number of switches one could try to make before getting dinged. The AI, after 3(?) player switches, could come up with a "you're wasting my time, take it or leave it" response if you went down the "bait and switch" road. "Leave it" and you get dinged for wasting another GM's time.

It's a great addition IMHO and I can't imagine it took much to code? Pretty simple, accept = no change, decline and you're docked x number of points on your rep scale. Also having it both a "league wide" rep and a "per team" rep is a nice touch.

The benefit is when users now come to the boards to troll about how easy it is to build a "winner" by adding and subtracting players from their offers until they fleeced the AI with their "superior intelligence", we can ask... "did you do this on hard mode?".

[wallewalls]

Sort of related, but does anyone think that AI trades are happening too much on default settings? I turned my frequency down to Low and there were four deals happening on some random day in the offseason (not winter meetings days), and I turned it down only because Normal seemed to be out of control. It seems like the AI is just making trades for the sake of making trades. I should have kept track of the numbers, but I didn't.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by Sweed

The AI, after 3(?) player switches, could come up with a "you're wasting my time, take it or leave it" response if you went down the "bait and switch" road. "Leave it" and you get dinged for wasting another GM's time.

I do think something like this, where the other GM simply runs out of patience with the constant back-and-forth then "hangs up" on your for the rest of the day, would be a good feature.



I guess I'll try the new "hard" setting but I suspect the fun factor will go way down, at least for me, due to the delays of this new system.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by texasmame

I do think something like this, where the other GM simply runs out of patience with the constant back-and-forth then "hangs up" on your for the rest of the day, would be a good feature.



I guess I'll try the new "hard" setting but I suspect the fun factor will go way down, at least for me, due to the delays of this new system.

I went through my first trade attempts yesterday. I was not on hard but thought there was still going to some affect. Took me a minute to realize I'd have to go to hard to get it to work. That is what I have done now too.

I too would like the immediate feedback and a penalty if I "waste their time". I'm not sure either about the delay but as I sit here and think about it I'm wondering if it will, by adding immersion and a fog of war, end up being more fun than the "old way". At first I was thinking "ugh, it's going to be irritating", now I'm not so sure and find myself looking forward to giving it a try. With it being new I'm sure Matt will be listening to feedback on how it's going and if it can be improved.

[Matt Arnold]

We'll take in all the feedback, for sure. Already on the hard mode, sometimes when you click submit offer they will give immediate feedback, we can certainly think about tweaking that logic to either happen more or less in certain cases.

[PSUColonel]

I think the effect some may be looking for is to use hard mode without the GM reputation. So you can still haggle back and forth without the reputation being a factor. It’s still plenty challenging as you still don’t have the “make this work now” button, and you will still need to make worthwhile proposals if you want to have any hope of them being accepted.

I would advise people to pay attention to team needs and depth also.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

We'll take in all the feedback, for sure. Already on the hard mode, sometimes when you click submit offer they will give immediate feedback, we can certainly think about tweaking that logic to either happen more or less in certain cases.

I honestly think this is fine the way it is. I think a shortlist of team needs would serve the user much better. These can be derived from the already existing position rankings.

[tonnage]

Originally Posted by Matt Arnold

...sometimes when you click submit offer they will give immediate feedback, we can certainly think about tweaking that logic to either happen more or less in certain cases.

I think you have that perfect as is. I've only received one immediate response back accepting a trade, most others the AI always comes back wanting more a day or two later. Small sample size but so far I like what I see. Cheers!

[SidHickenbottom]

I don't have an opinion on trade reputation yet, but so far I've loved hard mode and the especially the new deadline set up. As a long time player, even with some house rules, you get set in your ways and ability to get what you want as easy as possible, and this has slowed things down in a good way, making things slightly more challenging and adding more intrigue and strategy.

[texasmame]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I think the effect some may be looking for is to use hard mode without the GM reputation. So you can still haggle back and forth without the reputation being a factor. It’s still plenty challenging as you still don’t have the “make this work now” button, and you will still need to make worthwhile proposals if you want to have any hope of them being accepted.

I would advise people to pay attention to team needs and depth also.

That's another sticking point for me. The "work now" button is essentially asking the GM what they want in real-time - you know, like you might do on the nifty little invention we have called the "telephone." Without the ability to get this immediate feedback, this new mode just seems silly, really. Not realistic - of *course* you can ask, in real-time, what someone wants in a modern negotiation.



The new "Pony Express Mode" seems to only add unrealistic and unnecessary delays to the trading process under the guise of making it "harder" while only really making it annoying.

[MathBandit]

Originally Posted by texasmame

That's another sticking point for me. The "work now" button is essentially asking the GM what they want in real-time - you know, like you might do on the nifty little invention we have called the "telephone." Without the ability to get this immediate feedback, this new mode just seems silly, really. Not realistic - of *course* you can ask, in real-time, what someone wants in a modern negotiation.



The new "Pony Express Mode" seems to only add unrealistic and unnecessary delays to the trading process under the guise of making it "harder" while only really making it annoying.

My guess is you've never actually negotiated a trade (be it OOTP, fantasy, whatever) with another human before?

If I get a call/DM/etc from another GM asking me what I would want for John Smith, my usual response (assuming I'm interested in trading him) is "Let me take a look at your org, maybe scout some guys. I'll get back to you later today/tomorrow/this weekend/etc." Not "Here is a full and complete list of every single player I would accept in a 1-for-1 deal. Please peruse it and choose the best possible deal for you and we can proceed with that immediately."

[24Rocks]

Personally I am going to use it but I am waiting for after my first season of my import league to turn it on as a bunch of things changed and I want to test the new Trade deadline day in a league I care about.

I like the trade reputation idea tho and I think I will like that addition

[OzzieFan]

I used it and like it, but my biggest problem is negotiating over percent held or given. Thats something I think we need realtime on. Players I understand being send and recieve, but when you start quibbling over retained salaries, I want that to be real time.

[IanIachimoe]

currently using it.

manage every game so I have only played 20 or so total games & haven't noticed much difference besides the absence of the 'make it work' button.

where do you find your trade rep rating?

[quillenl]

Should see it on the Trade Screen when you are negotiating with another team. Will be directly under your team's name on the left side. It is a separate setting from Hard Mode, so if you are not seeing it you will need to enable it in the settings on the AI Settings Tab.