I think I just want my money back..

[Fyrestorm3]

Padreman, while I appreciate the sentiment, the OP's not raging or trolling. He posted a legitimate concern, with more of a defeated "I want my money back" than an angry one, and it's gotten a response and a re-opened bug report. I see nothing wrong with this thread or the way the OP went about it.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Padreman, while I appreciate the sentiment, the OP's not raging or trolling. He posted a legitimate concern, with more of a defeated "I want my money back" than an angry one, and it's gotten a response and a re-opened bug report. I see nothing wrong with this thread or the way the OP went about it.

Seconded.

[The Wolf]

In fact, if that bug is still around and this thread leads to it finally getting fixed, this was a very good thing.

In fact, if we could close ALL the bugs in game, probably nobody would ever be interested in Football Manager again.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by dmytron

In fact, if we could close ALL the bugs in game, probably nobody would ever be interested in Football Manager again.

Nah. That's the other great sports game.

But one can dream, can't he?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by dmytron

But one can dream, can't he?

Of course. But I don't think that even Markus dreams of OOTP totally dethroning FM.

But being every bit as good and just as successful? Sure. That's a nice dream. And I hope that happens.

[endgame]

I asked for the screenshot because I suspected this issue was exactly the one eventually defined. This has enjoyed some discussion and discovery in http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...s-results.html and is being quietly debated as to its merit and/or status as a bug.

When it was first reported, Markus indicated he'd fix it, but I don't know how he intended to do so, or what, if anything, was actually done. OTOH, nothing has changed or changes on the player's profile. It indicates exactly how many times he has 'won' the award. The parenthesis is included in the display now as an indicator of talent and performance, i.e. how many times the player has been in the top three. If you sort the report by name, it's clear how many times the player occupies the award-winning slot, that is, his name is posted. The parenthetical amount is not tabulated in any way in the sorts, so it's informational only. One could argue it adds information to a report that has otherwise remained unchanged and detracts nothing, other than providing a potentially confusing perception about what that number means.

Presently, I'd call it a house divided, with some- including myself -who feel it does no real harm and actually adds a bit of data that is otherwise difficult to cull. There are others, like yourself, who feel it distorts the perception of wins. pstrickert has re-opened the examination and we'll just have to see what happens from here, but the reality does remain that it's a display issue that's presenting information in, arguably, an ambiguous way, and not a bug: award winners are not being assigned incorrectly.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by endgame

Presently, I'd call it a house divided, with some- including myself -who feel it does no real harm and actually adds a bit of data that is otherwise difficult to cull. There are others, like yourself, who feel it distorts the perception of wins. pstrickert has re-opened the examination and we'll just have to see what happens from here, but the reality does remain that it's a display issue that's presenting information in, arguably, an ambiguous way, and not a bug: award winners are not being assigned incorrectly.

I'm on the other side of the house. I can live with whatever is decided, but I don't like this thing one bit.

[jaysdailydose]

There isn't any "perception of wins". The screen says award winners. When I see the parenthetical I assume its the number of that award WON. Not how many times has been a top vote getter.

Makes zero sense.

[wspahn21]

Originally Posted by endgame

I asked for the screenshot because I suspected this issue was exactly the one eventually defined. This has enjoyed some discussion and discovery in http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...s-results.html and is being quietly debated as to its merit and/or status as a bug.

When it was first reported, Markus indicated he'd fix it, but I don't know how he intended to do so, or what, if anything, was actually done. OTOH, nothing has changed or changes on the player's profile. It indicates exactly how many times he has 'won' the award. The parenthesis is included in the display now as an indicator of talent and performance, i.e. how many times the player has been in the top three. If you sort the report by name, it's clear how many times the player occupies the award-winning slot, that is, his name is posted. The parenthetical amount is not tabulated in any way in the sorts, so it's informational only. One could argue it adds information to a report that has otherwise remained unchanged and detracts nothing, other than providing a potentially confusing perception about what that number means.

Presently, I'd call it a house divided, with some- including myself -who feel it does no real harm and actually adds a bit of data that is otherwise difficult to cull. There are others, like yourself, who feel it distorts the perception of wins. pstrickert has re-opened the examination and we'll just have to see what happens from here, but the reality does remain that it's a display issue that's presenting information in, arguably, an ambiguous way, and not a bug: award winners are not being assigned incorrectly.

Unfortuantely as ridiculous as you may think this is.... for me it is a game breaker. I can not start a league with this issue. I do not play my games. I sim years at a time of a fictional historical universe mixing real historical players and those I manually add of my choosing and then I relish in pouring over the history reports.

The game has always used the number in parenthesis to denote times WON and I am not sure why you would change that now. After 200 years of history it is nice to look at the awards page and see the number in parenthesis and go oh that guy won it 3 times or look this guy won it 12 times in 15 years he was a legend. Now the number is really useless because I don't know if they won or if they were just runner-up and honestly I don't care if they were runner-up! If they are a player I choose to shortlist and actually care if they came in as runner-up then I will go look at their career history not the awards page.

If it stays then yes I do want my money back.

As you can see I have been a member of these forums for over 10 years and only have around 400 posts. I am not very vocal and never really had a lot to complain about but this one is eating at me because I can't even play my game.

Again, I apologize that I am so OCD about this and it is a small issue to most of you. I am sorry if I am wasting your time but it really does matter to me and what harm would it do IF what I feel is a bug remains, for one guy to get his cash back and then go back to playing OOTP 14 and hope it is fixed in next years version?

Edit: In the Navy they always say don't bitch about a problem and not bring a solution so here is my solution to try and make everyone happy, I am not a developer and have no idea the difficulty in doing this but

Is it too difficult to code for it to be (2:3) and have it as (WON:TOP3) or something similar to make everyone happy and avoid ambiguity?

[endgame]

Originally Posted by wspahn21

Unfortuantely as ridiculous as you may think this is.... for me it is a game breaker.

Let's be clear. I don't think your position is ridiculous, and hope I didn't infer that in any of my comments. You're not only entitled to your opinion, but if it interferes with your quality of experience, I think you're obligated to articulate that disruption and I think you've done so well. No problem.

I would ask this, and it may be my memory's lacking, aside from boxscores referencing SB, HR, etc.... where has "the game ... always used the number in parenthesis to denote times WON?" Thanks in advance. Edit: And your suggestion for solution is a pretty good one, IMO.

[The Wolf]

@wspahn21: Bravo Zulu

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by endgame

I would ask this, and it may be my memory's lacking, aside from boxscores referencing SB, HR, etc.... where has "the game ... always used the number in parenthesis to denote times WON?" Thanks in advance. Edit: And your suggestion for solution is a pretty good one, IMO.

It used to for all the major awards at years end. If a guy had won before it threw a (2) next to his second one and so on. At work now so I can't give you a screen shot but if no one has in the next 4 hours or so I'll do so when I get home.

[wspahn21]

Originally Posted by endgame

Let's be clear. I don't think your position is ridiculous, and hope I didn't infer that in any of my comments. You're not only entitled to your opinion, but if it interferes with your quality of experience, I think you're obligated to articulate that disruption and I think you've done so well. No problem.

I would ask this, and it may be my memory's lacking, aside from boxscores referencing SB, HR, etc.... where has "the game ... always used the number in parenthesis to denote times WON?" Thanks in advance. Edit: And your suggestion for solution is a pretty good one, IMO.

Okay all I have loaded is OOTP 14 and you can see in the screen shot how it has been for as many years as I can remember. The pitcher of the year has a (2) because he won it in 1871 and 1872. This is why it is so frustrating you are changing something that has been standard for years. Old habits die hard I guess.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

It used to for all the major awards at years end. If a guy had won before it threw a (2) next to his second one and so on. At work now so I can't give you a screen shot but if no one has in the next 4 hours or so I'll do so when I get home.

That said you can sort every column by name and thereby see exactly how many awards in each category so it is essentially no more difficult to find out and requires nothing more but a single mouse click.

I respect spahn's opinion and if he wants it changed I'm cool with him saying so, but I do think an equally easy and acceptable solution is there, but I'm not an expert on what spahn considers acceptable of course.

[wspahn21]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

That said you can sort every column by name and thereby see exactly how many awards in each category so it is essentially no more difficult to find out and requires nothing more but a single mouse click.

I respect spahn's opinion and if he wants it changed I'm cool with him saying so, but I do think an equally easy and acceptable solution is there, but I'm not an expert on what spahn considers acceptable of course.

I am sorry but maybe I don't understand what you are saying.

This page is not sortable at least in anyway I can find.

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by wspahn21

I am sorry but maybe I don't understand what you are saying.

This page is not sortable at least in anyway I can find.

In previous versions of the game you could clicks on the headers (Year, HotYA, PotYA, RotYA) and it would sort them. Year would sort by year, but the others would sort alphabetically by last name.

[wspahn21]

Originally Posted by megamanmatt

In previous versions of the game you could clicks on the headers (Year, HotYA, PotYA, RotYA) and it would sort them. Year would sort by year, but the others would sort alphabetically by last name.

That isn't possible in OOTP15 as far as I can tell and I just tried in 14 and can't do it there either. Am I missing something?

[megamanmatt]

Originally Posted by wspahn21

That isn't possible in OOTP15 as far as I can tell and I just tried in 14 and can't do it there either. Am I missing something?

I'd have to mess with it myself and I can't for a few hours. It's possible the functionality was removed. It happens.