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Old 11-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #61
Painmantle
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Is this the 5 minute argument? Or the Full half Hour?

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:51 PM   #62
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Wolf did. And you added "I'm with Wolf on this".
Also "Geez, I just don't get the hate for Steam"

As for taking it personally maybe I overreacted...but I explained WHY also.

"Pro tip: Sarcasm doesn't come across via text unless you use an emoticon. And it especially doesn't come across when it's not contrary to the point you were previously making"

I also explained my precise stand on the matter in the following (and PRECEEDING) posts. You just chose to ignore it.

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-09-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:10 PM   #63
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Wolf did. And you added "I'm with Wolf on this".
Also "Geez, I just don't get the hate for Steam"
I said I was with Wolf in that I was confused as to why you would both love and badmouth Steam. Only that post. If I agree with someone on one point, it doesn't mean I automatically agree with everything they've ever said.

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I also explained my precise stand on the matter in the following (and PRECEEDING) posts. You just chose to ignore it.
I never said you were irrationally against Steam. I never said you were wrong. I never called you a hater. I said I don't understand the hate towards Steam. In general. I then agreed that they probably have poor customer service, and then wondered where the whole conspiracy theory post came from. Maybe it was obvious sarcasm to you, but nothing you said prior to that post indicated that you didn't think what you said. All you said was that Steam was an amazing product with poor customer service. Thus my confusion when you then came out and made the (apparently) tongue-in-cheek post about Valve intentionally screwing people out of their money. So I defended Steam, and you turn around and call me stupid because I didn't get your sarcasm. Yes, you overreacted, because nothing I have said in this thread has directly opposed any of your views, other than that one post that I was initially responding to.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:45 PM   #64
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Then I apologise.

As it happens I'm currently in a conversation with an American guy (we are talking ON Steam ironically).

The last thing I said was

There were patches back in the day but Steam has made patching more of a certainty than it has ever been before. It means publishers can make their horrible deadlines leaving devs to deal after the fact. A sign of the times. Almost no game comes out finished any more.

the guy replied "So true" and then "More like they wait for the community to get frustrated long enough to fix it themselves...mods mods and more mods"

Just another point there.

I said, "Though it is easy to argue that is a good thing. Mods have consistently produced a better game overall for many games and added far more varied content and expanded game-life as well".

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-09-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:46 PM   #65
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I said I was with Wolf in that I was confused as to why you would both love and badmouth Steam. Only that post. If I agree with someone on one point, it doesn't mean I automatically agree with everything they've ever said.
What? You don't agree with everything I ever said? That's it, the bromance is over.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:47 PM   #66
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Then I apologise.

As it happens I'm currently in a conversation with an American guy (we are talking ON Steam ironically).

The last thing I said was

There were patches back in the day but Steam has made patching more of a certainty than it has ever been before. It means publishers can make their horrible deadlines leaving devs to deal after the fact. A sign of the times. Almost no game comes out finished any more.

the guy replied "So true" and then "More like they wait for the community to get frustrated long enough to fix it themselves...mods mods and more mods"

Just another point there.
A lot of those Steam workshop mods make the games soooo much better. Torchlight II is one good example.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:58 PM   #67
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The latest raging debates are centred not around whether or not Steam is a good thing (overall most of us would have to admit that to be the case). But rather over whether or not "early access" (*edit* OR Greenlight) is a good thing. I won't even go into that here because we could talk about pros and cons for weeks.

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-09-2013 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #68
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What? You don't agree with everything I ever said? That's it, the bromance is over.
Fyrestorm3: "Wait..you aren't a girl?" (sorry couldn't resist)

*that part in brackets is me making use of your pro tip (again, couldn't resist)

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-09-2013 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:10 PM   #69
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What? You don't agree with everything I ever said? That's it, the bromance is over.
It's okay, I've been cheating on you with Bru, anyway.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:22 PM   #70
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It's okay, I've been cheating on you with Bru, anyway.
WTF? Wait till Bru shows his face on my thread again...that cheating soab *edit* meh, I should have said "her" there right? I'm getting slow. But then you might have thought I really believed Bru was a girl (seems my resistance sucks in general of late - I'll stop being a wiseass now).

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-09-2013 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:31 PM   #71
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It's okay, I've been cheating on you with Bru, anyway.
You...tramp!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:32 PM   #72
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Fyrestorm3: "Wait..you aren't a girl?" (sorry couldn't resist)

*that part in brackets is me making use of your pro tip (again, couldn't resist)
There are no girls on the Internet. Everyone knows that.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 11-09-2013, 11:40 PM   #73
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There are no girls on the Internet. Everyone knows that.
Try telling that to the one I met on WoW that I was engaged to for 4 years.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:12 AM   #74
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Try telling that to the one I met on WoW that I was engaged to for 4 years.
Until you met her and found out she was actually a guy?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:44 AM   #75
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I have Steam and like it. I've never had problems with them. It's an extremely interesting company as far as the economics behind it.

I've never fully understood why some people don't like it.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:49 AM   #76
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Until you met her and found out she was actually a guy?
After living with her for 4 years and researching the subject thoroughly I was well aware of her female status.
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Old 11-10-2013, 12:52 AM   #77
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I have Steam and like it. I've never had problems with them. It's an extremely interesting company as far as the economics behind it.

I've never fully understood why some people don't like it.
"There's just no pleasing some people."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 11-10-2013, 01:45 AM   #78
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"There's just no pleasing some people."
Yeah, if something doesn't work I expect my money back (and without having to argue about it for weeks beforehand) - I'm picky that way. I wish I still had all my old support logs to show you. But I lost the password for my support account (which I have no idea why had to be separate from my main account in the first place)

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-10-2013 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 11-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #79
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The latest raging debates are centred not around whether or not Steam is a good thing (overall most of us would have to admit that to be the case). But rather over whether or not "early access" (*edit* OR Greenlight) is a good thing.
I am ok with Early Access, but those titles really need to be relegated to a separate tab in the store. There are way too many Early Access games cluttering up the New Releases each week. As for Greenlight, after looking at the latest batch of greenlit games, I have no idea what the criteria could possibly be. There is no way that some of those games received more support than OOTP.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:07 PM   #80
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I am ok with Early Access, but those titles really need to be relegated to a separate tab in the store. There are way too many Early Access games cluttering up the New Releases each week. As for Greenlight, after looking at the latest batch of greenlit games, I have no idea what the criteria could possibly be. There is no way that some of those games received more support than OOTP.
I don't find the idea of putting EA games on a separate tab relevant myself (although quite a lot of people have said the same thing). IMO they have as much right to be publicised as anything else and the huge blue boxouts saying they are early access and describing the situation more clearly for each game (and now also the fact that on the 'Featured' scroller they say "Early Access now Available" beneath the picture) is clear enough identifier.

I am more concerned about Steam's lack of regulation regarding the state they are allowed to release as early access: With many people having paid for games that either don't work at all on their systems or with content they can complete in under 2 hours. If regulation is not made more strict then the games that deserve to be in early access will eventually be overlooked as too much of a gamble.

For me, personally, (and those who support ea are free to their own opinion as they are with everything else) ea as a whole is not worth using because you are paying to play test - and in so doing, you are throwing away your fresh enjoyment of the finished game as you will have probably completed it before it reaches it's best state. To me this is like paying for a used car when you can buy a new one for almost the same price. If the benefit of being a responsible (i.e. heavy feedback) ea user were greater (that is..more than the paltry 10% reduction that is the norm) then perhaps I would be willing to spend my money and buy into the "help the little guy" rhetoric that both ea and Greenlight wave around like a flag of glory.

As for the "help make the game you want to play" idea. It has some merit. But, again, by the time your suggestions are implemented the only people to benefit will be those buying the finished product (and not those who have helped it become what it is).

If you point the way down the "moral issue" path too often then you may want to consider all the people who were previously paid game testers that you have just put out of work and that, once again, you are giving almost sole control over the market to one company. If the trend continues (and I've no doubt it will) the only financially viable way to produce and sell games will become Steam. And what qualifies the people at Valve to be the sole arbiters of the gaming industry? (I realise this weakens my point on stricter rules but I have no answer to this).

Last edited by MrMuse; 11-10-2013 at 10:30 PM.
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