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OOTP 14 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2013 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

View Poll Results: Which does the better job of putting you in the manager's chair?, which has the better all around AI
OOTP 14 67 54.47%
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:03 PM   #161
MrMuse
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I think it would be more fair if there were a sizeable discount to those people who already own the previous version and still charge full price to new users. I'm aware that Steam isn't the be-all and end-all of the marketplace but they have already implemented such discounts for other games and it is my belief that something like this should be applied, to varying degree, to sequels across the board.

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:06 PM   #162
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it is a beta right now, and will improve. SI has a very good reputation for fixing bugs. The "big" fix...usually always comes in February.
They have promised the final version at the end of January. But they have also stated that aside from bugs the beta is pretty much the final version.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:14 PM   #163
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Even if that's all they are, given the huge number of hours of fascinated entertainment I get from each version of FM (or each version of OOTP, for that matter), each year's upgrades are well worth it to me. I think of them like an annual subscription fee: I pay an annual fee, and the design team updates the game for me, fixes some bugs, and adds some new features, and then throws in a new roster set. Seems quite fair to me. What's my entertainment cost over a year here? Ten cents an hour?
Ugh, I always thought this. Especially after playing FM for literally THOUSANDS of hours. But these days I'm not so sure. The "improvements" seem to add up to less more and more, the games we are buying at full price are being made available to others at vastly reduced cost far sooner than ever before, and small devs are producing good games at very low costs far more often than they used to. The market has changed. Is it worth me buying the next version of FM solely based on the hours I would spend playing it? Yes. Could I have saved my money and played the previous version for just as long? Yes. Could I have bought 3 GREAT (and original) indie games instead? Yes.

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:16 PM   #164
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I am just happy to have these games available. FM, OOTP Baseball and TEW are definitely the cream of the crop.
Agreed. TEW is still a bit hard to get into to, though, at least for me. Not as accessible as FM or OOTP.

Hopefully Title Bout Championship Boxing will eventually be as good as these.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:17 PM   #165
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Is it worth me buying the next version of FM solely based on the hours I would spend playing it? Yes. Could I have saved my money and played the previous version for just as long? Yes. Could I have bought 3 GREAT indie games instead? Yes.
Those are good points.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #166
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I paid about thirty bucks for FM14 on my preorder. Divided by 52 weeks that's about sixty cents a week. I play about six hours a week of FM.

A dime an hour seems more than fair to me.
And there's another issue. The current reduced price of OOTP equates to about £16 including tax. So why Does FM sell at $30 in the US and £35 in the UK? (that is also the pre-order price by the way. There is no pre-order reduction here). Some places will, no doubt, offer it for £29.99 but that still doesn't cover the exchange rate.

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Old 10-21-2013, 03:34 PM   #167
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I just got into FM with FM 12 (skipped FM 13) and I can see the difference in the game ESPECIALLY in the match engine just by watching Let's play of FM 14 on youtube...FM 12 immediately became unplayable for me. Your expectations must be through the roof!
Because 13 was a massive improvement over '12 and '14 is a minor improvement (at best) over '13. Skipping a year will always make a difference in perception.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:12 PM   #168
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Because 13 was a massive improvement over '12 and '14 is a minor improvement (at best) over '13. Skipping a year will always make a difference in perception.
That's true, but earlier in the thread you said this:

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There has been no REAL change to the game since FM 2009 other than that SI finally realised their long-term goal of implementing better player and press interaction with FM2013. Ignore the list of "new features", they are almost always just hyperbole...
So which is it? That 14 is a massive improvement over 12 or that there's hasn't been much improvement since 09?

And if 14 is a massive improvement over 12 then then must have been decent improvement from 12 to 13 and from 13 to 14, right?

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:21 PM   #169
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what is TEW?
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #170
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OOTP vs. FM Revisited

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what is TEW?
Total Extreme Wrestling. Its a wrestling sim where you are the booker or owner of a wrestling company. The company that made it also have a MMA text sim which is good but not as great or impressively detailed as TEW.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:35 PM   #171
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OOTP vs. FM Revisited

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Because 13 was a massive improvement over '12 and '14 is a minor improvement (at best) over '13. Skipping a year will always make a difference in perception.
But you basically said FM have been applying minor changes since FM 09.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:40 PM   #172
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But you basically said FM have been applying minor changes since FM 09.
I am beginning to suspect that this is not an honest conversation.
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Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:43 PM   #173
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That's true, but earlier in the thread you said this:



So which is it? That 14 is a massive improvement over 12 or that there's hasn't been much improvement since 09?

And if 14 is a massive improvement over 12 then then must have been decent improvement from 12 to 13 and from 13 to 14, right?
If you look at my posts in the steam thread I linked you will see that I pretty much consider 13 to be the only true advancement since 09. At no point have I said that there are never improvements. I just think that certain improvements are less important than others. Whilst 13 improved player and press interaction (match engine improvements are gradual year by year and imo do NOT really alter the game - they are JUST cosmetic), the improvements to player and press interaction are (almost as much as the match engine) there to increase the suspension of disbelief more than for any other reason. The poster I was responding to is clearly impressed with small cosmetic changes (as he mentioned about how the match engine now looked) and I responded to his post based on HIS perception of improvements not my own. The match engine has ZERO impact on how you manage. The player and press interaction has an impact - but not a huge one. The core game remains the same.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:55 PM   #174
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OOTP vs. FM Revisited

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If you look at my posts in the steam thread I linked you will see that I pretty much consider 13 to be the only true advancement since 09. At no point have I said that there are never improvements. I just think that certain improvements are less important than others. Whilst 13 improved player and press interaction (match engine improvements are gradual year by year and imo do NOT really alter the game - they are JUST cosmetic), the improvements to player and press interaction are (almost as much as the match engine) there to increase the suspension of disbelief more than for any other reason. The poster I was responding to is clearly impressed with small cosmetic changes (as he mentioned about how the match engine now looked) and I responded to his post based on HIS perception of improvements not my own. The match engine has ZERO impact on how you manage. The player and press interaction has an impact - but not a huge one. The core game remains the same.
Quality over quantity.

I'll take that any day. Some games offer high quantity of features but most of them are done terrible. If the some small improvements are done well then it will only enhance the game further like with OOTP 14. There wasn't a big feature list but in my opinion its far better than OOTP 13 which was considered (by some long time supporters) the best OOTP yet.

Also the ME is far from cosmetic, its one of the main reason for the tactical revamp.

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Old 10-21-2013, 04:59 PM   #175
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The core game remains the same.
That's a good thing though, right? The core game is the reason why FM is one of the greatest games ever.

It shouldn't be messed with. It'd really suck if they changed the core game and ended up somehow making FM more like FIFA or something.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:01 PM   #176
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Also the ME is far from cosmetic, its one of the main reason for the tactical revamp.
Yep. This too.

The ME actually has a major effect on tactics.

You could see that in 13 (I think it was 13, hazy memory) when the ME was kind of buggy when the beta was released and it played havoc with a lot of peoples tactics.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:02 PM   #177
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Regarding the whole cosmetics issue: It's true that decent cosmetic advances can increase your immersion into the game. But how much does it cost to put baseball card pictures into OOTP...or indeed pictures of footballers into FM....does it cost £35? Does it cost $30? Hell, does it cost $5? No, that's right, it's generally a free mod. Any cosmetic improvement is only marginally different.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:05 PM   #178
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Yep. This too.

The ME actually has a major effect on tactics.

You could see that in 13 (I think it was 13, hazy memory) when the ME was kind of buggy when the beta was released and it played havoc with a lot of peoples tactics.
Look at the stats of your players...say the strikers as an easy example...when they miss by a mile do you sub them based on what you see on the match engine? Because if you do then that's kinda stupid because the me has little correlation with the stats of the players you are using...the 'huge miss' is based on morale and RNG after stats. Fact is...you can play without the me for a reason..that reason is..oh yeah..ITS NOT NEEDED.

And are we going to go into the old "but it shows how your tactics work in reaction to the other teams" thing? It doesn't - and even if it does...you can see the exact same thing with the bog standard 2d engine.

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Old 10-21-2013, 05:07 PM   #179
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OOTP vs. FM Revisited

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Look at the stats of your players...say the strikers as an easy example...when they miss by a mile do you sub them based on what you see on the match engine? Because if you do then that's kinda stupid because the me has little correlation with the stats of the players you are using...the 'huge miss' is based on morale and RNG after stats. Fact is...you can play without the me for a reason..that reason is..oh yeah..ITS NOT NEEDED
I don't think you understand how FM works.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:15 PM   #180
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Look at the stats of your players...say the strikers as an easy example...when they miss by a mile do you sub them based on what you see on the match engine? Because if you do then that's kinda stupid because the me has little correlation with the stats of the players you are using...the 'huge miss' is based on morale and RNG after stats. Fact is...you can play without the me for a reason..that reason is..oh yeah..ITS NOT NEEDED.

And are we going to go into the old "but it shows how your tactics work in reaction to the other teams" thing? It doesn't - and even if it does...you can see the exact same thing with the bog standard 2d engine.
I think you might want to read up a little more on the match engine.

The match engine actually changes the outcome of plays and the game overall. That's been stated by the dev team and discussed at length on the web.

It's not merely a cosmetic improvement. It has a direct and substantial effect on gameplay and tactics. It alters the results from what you'd see in 2d.
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