'Team Option Year' contracts

[kingcharlesxii]

Ideally, a contract with a team option should be evaluated like this (from the player's point of view):

If it is a 3 year contract with a team option as the 3rd year, the player should see it primarily as a 2 year option with salary+1/2 buyout per year. The team option amount should matter but generally team options are only picked up if they're a value for the team.

If the engine doesn't prioritize player or vesting options over team options, it probably should. Team options are generally a liability for the player and a bonus for the team.

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Ideally, a contract with a team option should be evaluated like this (from the player's point of view):

If it is a 3 year contract with a team option as the 3rd year, the player should see it primarily as a 2 year option with salary+1/2 buyout per year. The team option amount should matter but generally team options are only picked up if they're a value for the team.

If the engine doesn't prioritize player or vesting options over team options, it probably should. Team options are generally a liability for the player and a bonus for the team.

Right. Team options are often given to players who have some risk involved due to being unproven, an injury risk, etc...Usually, what the team ends up doing is overpaying on the front end for the control they get on the back end.

However, in OOTP, these contracts can often be structured heavily on the back end to get cheap front end deals. They are also often part of extensions to talented players about to hit the FA market, which also doesn't make a lot of sense.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Isryion

Usually, what the team ends up doing is overpaying on the front end for the control they get on the back end.

I can't but help think someone ought to go through the contract data at Cot's site and take a look at how any contract with a team option year is structured to get some real-world hard data on just how such things work in real life. That would provide the proper reference point for how to they ought to work in OOTP.

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I can't but help think someone ought to go through the contract data at Cot's site and take a look at how any contract with a team option year is structured to get some real-world hard data on just how such things work in real life. That would provide the proper reference point for how to they ought to work in OOTP.

You can certainly see dollar amounts, but it does lose context, which is some of what's being discussed, that the digital players don't seem to distinguish between the option year as a team option vs. guaranteed contracts.

At some point, if I have the chance, I'd be glad to go through some of them, but I'm speaking from mostly discussions by analysts I've heard about why teams wanted team options or why they were included in specific contracts, which actually isn't noted in the contract itself (context).

Longoria's first extension, of course, being the most widely covered example. There are two team options at the end because they overpaid during team control years but negotiated team options at the end to mitigate their own risk later down the road.

On the other hand, you're right that some numbers would be useful because it is a rather frequent in OOTP to load a massive portion of the contract into the team option year.

[injury log]

OOTP players do distinguish between option years and guaranteed years. I don't know where people get the idea that they don't, unless they're playing OOTP-8 or something. It was a known exploit in earlier versions of the game - duping players into accepting cheap contracts by adding absurd team options - and it was fixed ages ago.

Yes, players will accept contracts with big team option years, but they're usually contracts the player would have accepted anyway.

[TPinrose]

Originally Posted by injury log

OOTP players do distinguish between option years and guaranteed years. I don't know where people get the idea that they don't, unless they're playing OOTP-8 or something. It was a known exploit in earlier versions of the game - duping players into accepting cheap contracts by adding absurd team options - and it was fixed ages ago.

Yes, players will accept contracts with big team option years, but they're usually contracts the player would have accepted anyway.

The problem here, I think, is online leagues. When human players compete for FAs it can degenerate into larger and larger offers of team options on the back end. The player may recognize that both offers are team options but will accept the larger of the team options.

The way leagues prevent these unrealistic contracts is to require a buyout, and also to sometimes put in rules that deal with salary variation from year to year. For example, no salary year may be more than 20% greater than the lowest salary year.

[Corsairs]

Originally Posted by TPinrose

The problem here, I think, is online leagues. When human players compete for FAs it can degenerate into larger and larger offers of team options on the back end. The player may recognize that both offers are team options but will accept the larger of the team options.

The way leagues prevent these unrealistic contracts is to require a buyout, and also to sometimes put in rules that deal with salary variation from year to year. For example, no salary year may be more than 20% greater than the lowest salary year.

You are correct in highlighting this as a concern of some online leagues, and in the usual solution (custom house rules). The difficulty with house rules, of course, is that it requires a commissioner to manually enforce them and GMs to remember to adhere to them. That can be challenging given the plethora of rules that many online leagues employ, which may include any or all of the following:

• Mandatory minimum buyouts as a % of team option year salary
• No decreasing of salaries from year to year in a multi-year contract
• First year of an extension must be at or above the value of player's current salary
• X-or-more-year contracts must feature salaries equal to league average salary for all arbitration years, 3x league average salary for all free agent years
• X-or-more-year contracts must feature at least Y% year-to-year salary escalation
• Minimum average yearly salary threshold must be met before Best Hitter/Pitcher incentives may be offered
• Cap on how many PA/IP can be use used as the trigger for a bonus
• Cap on total bonus money as a % of contract's highest single yearly salary
• Players may not be traded with X days of signing a contract (auto-renewals and arbitration awards excepted)
• Free agents signed during the off-season may not be traded until a set date during the upcoming season
• Players may not be traded until one year after being drafted or, for non-drafted players, one year after signing their first pro contract

I believe OOTPDev is aware of online leagues' desire for customization and enforcement of common online league house rules, and I believe Markus will be exploring the possibility of helping commissioners and GMs out with some level of OOTP-enforced handling of the most common house rules. That, of course, doesn't guarantee that all or even any of these items will be addressed in OOTP 14. Bear in mind that every item of customization adds complexity to the game, and these options would largely be serving just one pool of OOTP gamers (online leaguers). Still, take solace in the fact that these kinds of issues are being discussed and examined.

[Isryion]

Originally Posted by injury log

OOTP players do distinguish between option years and guaranteed years. I don't know where people get the idea that they don't, unless they're playing OOTP-8 or something. It was a known exploit in earlier versions of the game - duping players into accepting cheap contracts by adding absurd team options - and it was fixed ages ago.

Yes, players will accept contracts with big team option years, but they're usually contracts the player would have accepted anyway.

This just isn't true, sorry. It may be better but it's not fixed.

[Mark313]

Would be nice to add option in the setup, that the option year must be within X% of last year of contract.

If i was fighting for a player. Say 5 years and it got up to 20 million a year, i always use to make the 6th year a option and for 35 million. Always seem to get that player.

I have seen the AI add 5 extra million on a option when the guys last year is like 14 million or something and they beat me.

So would be nice to have the option of having a setting if you choose where you can say option year can be no more than X% (say 5% then previous year) or 20% whatever. This would prevent me from trying to get the player easier, i dont do it anymore because it seems like cheating, but the AI uses it.

Also maybe a setting as well that the buyout has to be a minimum X% of option year. So if you offer 15 million in option year and you have pcked 20% is buyout, then you have to offer 3 million buyout.

Not sure how hard that is to code, just nice to have these choices in the setup!

[coljesep]

The idea of a $0 buyout in real life is fine. That just means the players agent did a bad job - but in the OOTP world it's a flaw.

We're not dealing with real money.

In real life if the Red Sox offer $75mil contract, the Yankees aren't realistically going to offer a $100mil contract with the final year a $25mil team option with $0 buyout.

The real life player isn't fooled like that. Nor is the agent.

But in OOTP if there is no penalty to the team for making a team option offer - then it's a flaw in the game. I understand in real life it can happen, but in real life people aren't offering a player a team option they have 0 intention of fulfilling

[NBK]

There are a number of ways to look at this IMO.

Perhaps the player is betting on himself, if he outperforms his contract it could force the team to pick up the higher option.

I think the best test on how the players are handling the given situation is to give out 3 contracts with highly different guaranteed money but different potential value. See where the player goes.

example:

1)5/5/5/5 - 20 mil guaranteed
2)3/3/3/15 [option] - 9 guaranteed; 24 possible
3)4/4/4/8 [option] - 12 guaranteed; 20 possible

The logical choice in my mind would be 2,1,3. It also might be easier to test with higher salaried players as you can make the variations larger or the contracts longer without it being strange.

By offering something similar with a higher last year of an option even on a lower scale most people will bet on themselves to exceed expectations.

Company decides to contract you for $3000/month for 6 months or they will give you $3000/month for 5 months and they have an option for the 6th month at $5000. You are going to choose the higher option as you logically tell yourself at the very least I can talk them into the $3000.

[olivertheorem]

For me it'd go 1,3,2 due to guaranteed money (also, I'd take the $3k for 6 mo). Just goes to show that not everyone thinks the same way on such things, and neither should OOTP players (the in-game entities, not the guys at the keyboard), which is what makes it hard to code.