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OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA. |
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12-15-2019, 11:21 AM | #41 | |
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I am of the personal opinion, based on nothing more than anecdotal observations, that current statistical analysis does not sufficiently calculate the added value of speed. It is difficult to find the true value of, for example, the distraction it causes a pitcher, making them more likely to throw a mistake pitch that the batter can take advantage of, or errors that are the result of rushed throws by defenders. I think all this leads to speed being undervalued, and I hope that moving forward there will be some team that finds a way to adjust their value assessment to account for this. I agree with the belief that the most exciting play in baseball is the home run. Where I differ is that I think it is the inside the park home run
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12-15-2019, 11:58 AM | #42 |
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Followed closely by the triple, the double steal, and any ground ball hit in the general direction of Juan Samuel...
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12-15-2019, 12:32 PM | #43 | ||
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12-16-2019, 11:26 AM | #44 | ||
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I honestly don't understand the "OMG they're ruining the GAAAME" stuff coming from this. It's obviously nostalgia, but it's nostalgia for a (to me) crappy thing that's been encroaching on the game since the early 90s, not, like, some time-honored tradition we're punting away. Like, yes, it used to be possible to bring in a guy for one batter in the 1920s. Nobody did that. Nobody used situational lefty relievers until, really, Tony LaRussa kicked it off with the A's in the late 80s. Maybe this is a sign that I'm starting to get older, too, but I for one like little tweaks made to the game and I'd really love to see an overall kind of move back to something that feels a bit more like it was played in the 70s, 80, and early 90s. Granted, that's my childhood and we're always going to be nostalgic for our childhood, but games weren't as long and I feel like there was a more historical mix between offense and defense and between pitching and defense. Also, games were quite a bit shorter - in 1985 they were 2:45, compared to 3:10 last year. Some of that, I have no idea how to fix - strikeout rates are insanely high now compared with even then and since they've been going up, up, up every year, practically, I don't know what measures the league can take to stop that - but some of it, like forcing teams not to use 6 damn relievers in a game unless they start really, really early or the pitching is really, really bad is a way to start.
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12-16-2019, 03:03 PM | #45 |
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Actually the first "LOOGY" was in 1960 and employed by Kansas City A's manager Bob Elliott.
https://tht.fangraphs.com/a-history-...oogy-part-one/ |
12-16-2019, 03:59 PM | #46 | |
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Right. They used a guy named Leo Kiley for a. 20 appearances the entire year, and b. he still averaged more than an inning per appearance. Elliott also lasted one year as a manager and his ideas really weren't pushed forward by anyone else, so calling 1960 the "birthplace" of the LOOGY is more interesting as a source of trivia than pointing to where this trend actually started (and even at that I'd probably point to Bill Henry in '65 as the first "true" LOOGY).
The kinds of LOOGYs we think about today really came into being in the mid to late 80s (although not, as I thought, as a result of the A's, at least not exactly - Tony LaRussa was clearly an innovator in this and he left the LOOGY stamp in two places in '86 - the White Sox team he was fired from in June and the A's who hired him in July - both of which would start to use them going forward). There are individual guys used in LOOGY-ish ways like Ed Vandeberg and individual seasons with guys used like this, but it wasn't the staple of everyone's 'pen until the late 80s at least.
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12-16-2019, 04:14 PM | #47 | ||
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12-16-2019, 06:34 PM | #48 |
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No need to repeat the verbage but I totally agree with Syd on this
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12-16-2019, 06:50 PM | #49 |
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Syd got me thinking about differences in the game since our childhoods (mine was earlier than his), and 50 years ago weren't there usually 10 pitchers on a 25-man roster? No room for a LOOGY, and additional pinch hitters don't cause significant delays.
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12-17-2019, 10:33 AM | #50 | |
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I definitely remember Earl Weaver advocating for a 9 man pitching staff (so a 4-5 man bullpen depending on the size of your rotation) because on any given day either 8 pitchers is too many or 12 is not enough.
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12-17-2019, 01:02 PM | #51 |
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I think MLB should make a sister rule to the 3 batter minimum. No Pinch hitting for those 3 batters.
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12-17-2019, 01:20 PM | #52 |
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Why?
So a team can put a new pitcher in facing the 8-hole and then force the other team to have their pitcher bat? What does that help? A pinch hitter doesn't take any extra time to warm-up. You basically eliminate pinch hitters since a team could just change pitchers every three batters. |
12-17-2019, 02:34 PM | #53 |
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Wouldn't a better rule be if team PH for batter then the Pitcher is allowed to be changed.
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12-18-2019, 12:48 AM | #54 |
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Strange that MLB is trying to limit the use of pitchers at the same time they're expanding the roster to 26.
Un juice the ball, push the mound back a bit, raise the fences, cut the rosters to 24, pitchers will be able to pace themselves, some batters will find they can't hit HRs and start going for line drives. Fewer pitching changes, fewer home runs, fewer strike outs, more hits. Might even see a hit and run now and then. |
12-18-2019, 08:44 AM | #55 |
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Strange, too, that they keep trying to speed up the game with these little tricks and all that happens is the attendance keeps dropping. How about fix that? The little tricks aren't working 'cause that's not what the problem is.
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12-18-2019, 08:49 AM | #56 |
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I could see this going really poorly IRL. For one thing, I could see teams having relievers fake injuries so that they can get quicker pitching changes. If they did it all season long, people would notice, so they would wait for a key late-season game or a playoff game to employ it. For anyone who thinks that teams are above this, I would point towards the Astros' trash cans.
The other thing that I could see is a stream of pinch-hitters. If you know that a relief pitcher has to be left in for three hitters, you might as well send up some hitters who hit with the opposite hand because your opponent cannot make a corresponding move. Here is a different idea. Let me know what you guys think. What if MLB decided instead that mid-inning relievers need to take all of their warm-up pitches in the bullpen and should be ready to pitch as soon as they come in? This could cut down the length of time that it takes to change pitchers substantially and could even discourage managers from making as many pitching changes since relief pitchers between innings would get warm-up time on the game mound while mid-inning relievers would only get warm-up time on the bullpen mound. |
12-18-2019, 09:08 AM | #57 | ||
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That'd put the players' health at risk |
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12-18-2019, 10:25 AM | #58 | |
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My Tickets have gone up Every year since I became a STH in 2016, In 2017 It Made sense but a raise in 2018 and a little increase in 2019 doesn't. Alot of causal fans would go more if tickets were cheaper when teams are bad, nobody wants to pay $26 CAD each for 500 Level (upper level at Skydome) to see Baltimore on a Sunday. How are fans supposed to feel invested when their teams just want to milk them of their money and just be average, alot cheaper to watch on tv and save up for those playoff tickets if they ever come.
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12-18-2019, 11:05 AM | #59 |
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The easiest way to speed up the game is to realize that most people watching at home have these massive flat screen TVs. Devote 1/4 of the screen to non-stop silent advertising and eliminate an actual commercial break.
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12-18-2019, 11:16 AM | #60 |
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Yeah, as much as I hate PIP advertising, if it saves me 20 minutes of gametime, I'll take them cutting out once an inning for an ad.
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