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Old 10-01-2023, 01:05 PM   #1
CH1MA3RA
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iso Western League logo

Greetings all,

In my historical/fictional "multiverse" sim, the PCL became a legit professional league in 1954, and rebranded itself as the Western League.

I'm curious if anyone has any, or can point me in the direction of any, Western League logos. They don't have to be era specific styles.

Many thanks in advance! Keep up the great work that you all do.
Cheers
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Old 10-01-2023, 01:45 PM   #2
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These... ?
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Old 10-02-2023, 11:45 AM   #3
CH1MA3RA
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I'm not looking specifically for a singular Western League logo. Just trying to find any and all that represent an entity named the "Western League".

These are a great start. Thank you

If anyone is willing to create a Western League logo, to be used for when the PCL becomes a professional league, that would be amazing as well.
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Old 10-02-2023, 04:03 PM   #4
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You could also pretty quickly crank out a bunch here: https://looka.com/
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Old 10-02-2023, 07:59 PM   #5
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Old 10-02-2023, 08:25 PM   #6
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Trivia: Had the PCL been granted major league status, they likely would've been called The Pacific Major League. At least that's what they had requested a few times when they had asked to become a major league.

Just curious, CH1MA3RA: What teams does your 1954 PCL include? The same as historical (LA, Hwd, SF, Oak, Sea, Port, SD, Sac)? Or something different?
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Old 10-03-2023, 11:50 AM   #7
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That's great logo thank you Wiseman.

Thehef, that's a fun question, thanks for asking.

for a bit of backstory, I used the January 1953 case Toolson v New York Yankees as the breaking off point for my alternate timeline. In this version of that case the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Toolson, basically removing the antitrust exemption from MLB. The PCL played out the 1953 season with their open classification but made it very clearly known that their intent was to be a pro league starting in 1954.

During the 1953 season, the owners of the Denver Bears (western league) purchased the Oakland Oaks with the intent to merge the organizations together and establish Denver as a professional baseball city, retaining the Denver Bears name.

With it's elevation to a professional league, a few of the teams underwent some rebranding to elevate their logos and mascots to the same higher level.

1954 Western League
Denver Bears
Portland Beavers
Seattle Pilots
San Francisco Nuggets
Sacramento Solons
Hollywood Stars
Los Angeles Angels
San Diego Padres

In this timeline Dewey Soriano never became president of the PCL, instead he went from being president of the Western International League to a majority shareholder of the Seattle Rainiers, and renamed them the Seattle Pilots because of his connection to being a harbor pilot and the city's aviation history (just like he did irl).

The San Francisco Seals were rebranded as the San Francisco Nuggets to align their branding closer to that of their NFL team the 49ers.
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Old 10-03-2023, 12:37 PM   #8
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In addition to these changes at the pro level, the Western League, as part of their agreement to use that name, incorporated the former Western League as their AAA affiliate league, giving it the Frontier League moniker.

1954 Frontier League (AAA)
Des Moines Bruins
Omaha Packers
Albuquerque Dukes (formerly Pueblo Dodgers)
Sioux City Soos
Wichita Oilers
Lincoln Chiefs
Colorado Spring Sky Sox
Salt Lake City Bees
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Old 10-03-2023, 01:32 PM   #9
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Western League

One I patterned after some that Reds1 did a while back...
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Old 10-03-2023, 01:47 PM   #10
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ooh, thanks TX. another great option
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Old 10-03-2023, 06:56 PM   #11
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Couple more...
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Old 10-03-2023, 07:20 PM   #12
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CH1MA3RA, that's a really cool alternate reality that you've come up with. I dig stuff like this

I think I would've been tempted to put SLC in the now-major Western League, as travel by rail from any of the coast cities to Denver would have naturally gone right through SLC. It wasn't until the very end of the 50's that MLB teams transitioned primarily from train to airplane travel. So it stands to reason that in your 1954 WL, train travel would've still been the primary mode of transpo for the next few years, at least.

And during this time when the real-life PCL had been pushing for Major League status, Sacramento was one of its weakest franchises/markets (& a strong argument against MLB status). So that's probably who I would've bumped in favor of SLC.

But that's not criticism of your league, which is a really neat idea! I just like to bat this stuff around...

So, assuming your sim includes the 1954 AL & NL as they were, what do you plan to do with the Dodgers, Giants, 60's expansion, etc?
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Old 10-03-2023, 08:58 PM   #13
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Hef,

Sacramento Solons will actually be replaced by SLC after the 1955 season LOL.

So we're on the same page, you're just one year ahead of me.

With westward relocation/expansion not happening in this timeline, like it did irl, I'm contemplating whether the Dodgers and Giants follow their woven thread of destiny to leave NYC together. Ultimately it might come down to NYC wanting only 2 teams and Philly wanting only 1 team, so the Athletics might be moving instead with one of those NYC organizations from the NL.
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Old 10-03-2023, 09:37 PM   #14
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Thumbs up

Wow!
Both look spectacular!
Awesome creation there, Tx!!


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Old 10-03-2023, 10:54 PM   #15
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Couple more...
The one on the left is really, really good.
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Logo & uniform work here
Thread about my fictional universe that begins in 1857 here
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Old 10-04-2023, 01:57 AM   #16
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Before the Giants decided to move to SF, Stoneham had been looking at the possibility of moving to Minneapolis. He owned the Millers, so it would've been an easy move. So in the alternate scenario you have going, that would've been the most-likely destination for the Giants...

As for the Dodgers, if LA wasn't an option, O'Malley had already (by the time of the Dodgers leaving NY, not by the time of your 1954 scenario) been playing seven games per year (one against each NL opponent) in New Jersey, so that was a possible landing spot. However, except for games against the Giants, those games drew only slightly better crowds than typical Ebbets Field games. Part of the problem was that there simply weren't good transportation options to get from New York to Jersey's Roosevelt Stadium. The Dodgers likely would've played the 1958 season in Roosevelt had the LA move not worked out (and a move to another city not yet solidified), or had the Dodgers agreed to remain in the NY area (say, Flushing) but a new stadium was not yet ready. But it's unlikely Jersey would've been a permanent option.

Once the Giants decided to move to SF, it's hard to envision the Dodgers-to-LA move not working out, simply because at that point major league baseball was destined for LA given it's 3rd-largest metropolitan area status, and that another west coast team would've been logical/desired for scheduling reasons. However, if some other MLB team had swooped in and beaten the Dodgers to LA, or if for whatever other reason Brooklyn had to relocate elsewhere, they would've had to end up somewhere. And in that scenario, my money would've been on the Dallas/Ft Worth area. O'Malley already owned the minor league Ft Worth team, and I'm pretty sure I recall reading that he was intrigued by the area.

At any rate, here are a few interesting thread (some from quite awhile ago) that touch on franchise moves that didn't happen, speculation about if they did happen, and alternate OOTP scenarios such as yours. Might be some fun reading for ya

https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=239420
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=149784
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=313163
https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=316323
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Old 10-04-2023, 10:14 AM   #17
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Thanks for sharing those links! I've already stumbled upon them and read up on all of that LOL.

In fact, as a writer in my work life, I've researched the history of expansion and relocation quite a bit. Minnesota is the likely landing spot for the Giants, as you stated Hef. With that possible relocation penciled in, and the eventual Athletics to KC move, then Brooklyn will likely stay in NYC. They may do a Jersey stadium (undecided on that), but they will more likely than not remain the NL team for NYC.
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Old 10-04-2023, 10:42 AM   #18
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Tentative Structure for 1955

National League
Brooklyn Dodgers
Milwaukee Braves
New York Giants (will move to MIN at some point before 1960)
Philadelphia Phillies
Cincinnati Redlegs
Chicago Cubs
St. Louis Cardinals
Pittsburgh Pirates

American League
New York Yankees
Cleveland Indians
Chicago White Sox
Boston Red Sox
Detroit Tigers
Kansas City Athletics
Baltimore Orioles
Washington Senators

Western League
Seattle Pilots
San Diego Padres
Hollywood Stars
Los Angeles Angels
Portland Beavers
San Francisco Nuggets
Denver Bears
Salt Lake Bees

a couple notes about detours in the timeline weave:

If there's still a NL team present in NYC, then William Shea will likely not propose the idea of the Continental League (which included Denver, Houston, Minneapolis, New York City, Toronto, Atlanta, Dallas, and Buffalo).

Denver and Minneapolis would already have major league caliber teams.

If the Senators don't move to Minneapolis, and the Angels are already a professional team, then the 1961 AL expansion doesn't happen.

Without the need for the New York Mets, then the 1962 NL expansion would not look the same.

Kansas City, San Diego, and Seattle already have teams so the 1969 expansion would look different if it occurred. There's no guarantee that the Athletics stay in KC though, so we'll see when the mid-60s roll around.

There will likely be an agreement reached between the3 leagues to merge the AL & NL into a new larger "Eastern Conference", with the American and National monikers retained as their sub-leagues. Turning the Western League into a "Western Conference". Once this agreement is made, teams from the AL/NL could be more likely to relocate west since the Western League was staunchly against it prior to this agreement.
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Old 10-04-2023, 04:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA View Post
Tentative Structure for 1955... detours in the timeline weave...
At least half of the teams from Frank Shaughnessey's 1952 proposal - to expand the majors by including the four largest cities each from the AA & IL - would still be in play for expansion or promotion:

AA
Indianapolis
Kansas City - depends whether your A's relocate; if not then Oakland - with no current team in your world - is available
Milwaukee - depends whether your Braves relocate; if not then Atlanta (Southern Assocation through '61, Int'l Lg '62-'65) is available
Minneapolis - will already have an MLB team by '60

IL
Baltimore - already has a team in your '55 structure
Buffalo
Montreal
Toronto

Of course, with Indy & Buff never having rec'd (IRL) an MLB franchise to date, it might make more sense to look instead towards Dallas & Houston.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CH1MA3RA View Post
There will likely be an agreement reached between the3 leagues to merge the AL & NL into a new larger "Eastern Conference", with the American and National monikers retained as their sub-leagues. Turning the Western League into a "Western Conference". Once this agreement is made, teams from the AL/NL could be more likely to relocate west since the Western League was staunchly against it prior to this agreement.
I'm sure you're already considering something like this, but in that scenario, I'd think that a) you'd want the new Eastern Conference and resulting Western Conference to have somewhere in the neighborhood of the same teams in each. IOW, not an EC with 16 teams and a WC with 8. So you'd probably want to start - much as the NFL did with it's 1970 realignment - by moving a few teams from the NL/AL to the WL. In the NFL's case, its split into AFC & NFC wasn't geographical; yours would be. So candidates for moving from the EC to the WC would be Milw, one or both Chicagos, StL and definitely KC. The alternatives that I can think of - either very unbalanced numbers of teams in the two conferences, or a WC heavy on expansions teams - would be both undesirable and unrealistic in my book. One way to help alleviate the former is to have a team move from the east to a ripe western city (as I think you are considering), and then an expansion team replaces the team in the east (like what happened in the '61 AL: Minn & Wash). So maybe something like Brooklyn moving to Dallas to pair with an expansion team in Houston, and and expansion team replacing Brooklyn. Something like that... Just ideas

Anyways, fun stuff! Hope to hear more about it as things progress
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Old 10-05-2023, 02:30 AM   #20
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I've actually been contemplating turning this concept into an online league where the members work as a collective to weave together the multiverse vibe, while competing against each other on the field... been slowly looking for people as passionately nerdy about these things as I am, any chance you're interested in that idea?
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