Stats Only

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

Yeah the real problem with stats only is the time thing. Not everyone has lots of time to devote to the game and even if you do, you want to spend that playing and eyeballing players is a lot easier than spending time pouring over stats.

The time constraint issue is one of my main concerns which is why I asked some very specific questions that I felt were important in making decisions on how I want to or should play the game. If I felt that stats only is the way to go, I would play it that way but I remain unconvinced that it is best way to play. It may be the best way to play but there are too many unanswered questions to come to that conclusion, at least for me.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Orcin

It's not the same thing. But you are claiming that one method is more challenging than the other, and that is simply not true.

It is true, and you know it. Having ratings available is Easy Mode, video game mode. You know it and I know it.

No one who has tried stats only has ever found to be anywhere as easy as vanilla mode.

You've said your false piece, more often than anyone wanted to hear. I have asked you to stop attacking stats only mode in the topic so that we can discuss it here. Why don't you start a topic and attack it there and leave us in peace? I promise not to post there.

[PSUColonel]

I feel that so may of the scouting reports are so similar (with most players) that I have to use stats in order to evaluate.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I feel that so may of the scouting reports are so similar (with most players) that I have to use stats in order to evaluate.

Ditto.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I feel that so may of the scouting reports are so similar (with most players) that I have to use stats in order to evaluate.

Stats are vital. Both sets of data are needed.

[Roy Tucker]

Just wanted to chime in that even though I love playing stats only for a variety of reasons I do not think the mode is inherently more challenging. Or to put it another way stats only is just as easy as vanilla mode. To add challenge I put my talent change randomness at 200, add a salary cap and put trading on hard.

[OmahaReynolds]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Having ratings available is Easy Mode, video game mode.

I think that if you are using normal scouting accuracy and a 1-20 ratings scale then stats only would be relatively more difficult.

But if you have scouting set to low, are using a 2-8 scale (which is essentially what scouts use in real life, anyway), the challenge between the two are likely very similar. The ratings numbers are so vague that they might as well be the written scout's comments. The difference is that they are quicker to look at and there are more categories.

I think the most realistic way to play the game would be low scouting, 2-8 ratings scale, trades on hard and favor prospects, with the AI evaluation using ratings for 20% or less, maybe like a 20/50/20/10 scale or something. The bottom line is that a GM should be able to ask a scout "how's that guy's arm in left field?"

I like the concept of stats only, but I can't get around the fact that I know GM's in real life have scouts telling them one thing, and stats telling them another. I always end up spending annoying amounts of time reading the written scouting reports when I could just be looking at a vague ratings scale (2-8, low accuracy) and essentially have the same level of challenge.

However, I know that having the numbers right in front of you all the time can lead to players using ratings much more than a real life GM would. At a certain point a manager is just going to be looking at a players stats, at least on the foundational hitting and pitching stuff, maybe not so much on fielding and foot speed.

Yes, out-of-the-box OOTP with a 1-20 rating scale and pretty accurate scouting is going to be much easier than stats only. Stats only might be the hardest way to play the game, but I agree with Orcin that having to choose between stats and ratings can make for a challenge also.

Prior to like the 1960's scouts didn't even really use the 20-80 scale and the sport was pretty much "stats only." Grit was a big thing back then.

I guess my point is that stats only is an extremely challenging way to play, but a heavy fog ratings system can also be just as challenging. It's the default granular ratings settings that are seen as "easy" by OOTP vets and leads to people winning 120 games every season.

[Orcin]

Great post! I think you nailed it.

Originally Posted by OmahaReynolds

Yes, out-of-the-box OOTP with a 1-20 rating scale and pretty accurate scouting is going to be much easier than stats only.

Identifying the best players does not guarantee that you will have them. Once identified, the best players can still be very difficult to obtain with a small market budget, hard trade settings with house rules, and no draft pick trading. On the other hand, a stats-only player can dominate easily by exploiting the AI's lack of trading skills and poor roster management decisions.

There are far too many variables to claim that the exclusion or inclusion of one feature makes the game "easy mode". The game is easy with or without ratings for experienced players unless they exercise some self-restraint.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Identifying the best players does not guarantee that you will have them. Once identified, the best players can still be very difficult to obtain with a small market budget, hard trade settings with house rules, and no draft pick trading. On the other hand, a stats-only player can dominate easily by exploiting the AI's lack of trading skills and poor roster management decisions.

To each their own but I must say I'm not crazy about house rules...maybe it's just me but I like the game to be a challenge right out of the box, especially a computer game as opposed to a cards and dice game.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by canadian content

To each their own but I must say I'm not crazy about house rules...maybe it's just me but I like the game to be a challenge right out of the box, especially a computer game as opposed to a cards and dice game.

By the way, stats only is a house rule, considering that the default setting is ratings on.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by Orcin

By the way, stats only is a house rule, considering that the default setting is ratings on.

I'll be really specific, I'm not crazy about rules that are implemented outside of the game as opposed to those that are set within it but to each their own.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Orcin

By the way, stats only is a house rule, considering that the default setting is ratings on.

No it's not, or at least not in the sense that the term "house rule" is used around here. A house rule refers to something the user or users force themselves to do/not do, even though it's allowable in the game. Such as not including money in trades or not making selections in the Rule V draft.

Turning a setting on or off is not the same.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

No it's not, or at least not in the sense that the term "house rule" is used around here. A house rule refers to something the user or users force themselves to do/not do, even though it's allowable in the game. Such as not including money in trades or not making selections in the Rule V draft.

Turning a setting on or off is not the same.

Semantics. Choosing to deny yourself a feature that is available in the game is the same thing as denying yourself something that is allowed in the game.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Semantics. Choosing to deny yourself a feature that is available in the game is the same thing as denying yourself something that is allowed in the game.

Semantics indeed.

Choosing to shut off a feature that is available in the game is not the same thing as denying yourself something that is allowed in the game by not shutting it off and then not using it.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by canadian content

Semantics indeed.

Choosing to shut off a feature that is available in the game is not the same thing as denying yourself something that is allowed in the game by not shutting it off and then not using it.

Result is the same, isn't it.

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Result is the same, isn't it.

Perhaps, but I feel a lot better about the game designer telling what I am allowed to do or not to do within the game's set parameters.

[thriller13]

Stats only is for noobs. I play ratings off, stats off, scouting off, and rename all the players John Smith. I still win the championship every year. Next season I am going to play with my monitor off.



Why are you fighting about how other people enjoy the game?

[ondemonitors]

Originally Posted by thriller13

Next season I am going to play with my monitor off.

This should have it's own thread as well

[canadian content]

Originally Posted by thriller13

Next season I am going to play with my monitor off.

You are free to do that but keep in mind..........that's a house rule.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by thriller13

Why are you fighting about how other people enjoy the game?

If you had been around here since the days of Malleus Dei, you would realize that this is not "fighting". Nobody has suggested that the opposition get a gun.