Stealing

mrbadguy · 10-10-2019, 05:01 PM

My apologies if this has come up before, thought maybe its different after all the updates.

Im in 2026 and find still find it near impossible to steal in One pitch mode. Cant get jump or CPU pitches out and gets me.
** This is in relation to my players with 70 in stealing and speed.
Therefore SB numbers for those who should steal are very low.
(If I sim a game I may steal 2-3, but playing, nothing)

CPU steals at will unless I pitch out. Over 8 seasons my catchers may have throw out10% of the runners, and that is a generous number. ( not counting simmed games).

If I switch to pitch by pitch I can still more often, but still only get the CPU if I pitch out.

I was wondering. Is this because I am playing in the modern area where steals are rare, therefore the 70 ratings are irrelevant.?
I will be starting a Franchise in the Steal happy eras (dead ball or 80s) and am concerned it will the same issue. If so I will lose my mind if someone like Henderson, Raines or Cobb keep getting "cant get jump"

Its probably the only part of the game that I have ever had an issue with.

Thanks.

CBeisbol · 10-10-2019, 08:18 PM

When this comes up it's usually that the user has unrealistic expectations, is looking at results over a small sample, or their bias is causing them to "feel" like one thing is happening while another thing is happening.

I'd urge you to collect some hard data over a large sample of games. Otherwise you, and anyone who tries to help you, is just guessing.

Keep in mind things like pitcher hold runner ratings and catcher defense ratings, as well as baserunning ratings need to be considered

mrbadguy · 10-11-2019, 02:01 AM

Not making a huge issue but this is over 8 seasons and at least 800 games played. I trade/ sign guys with history of steals but find with one pitch, steal I get very, very few steals. Have been getting better % with " forced steal"
CPU is still near automatic without pitch out. I haven't adjusted sliders.
It's just annoying.

Anyone · 10-11-2019, 03:01 AM

The cpu is not near-automatic against me, and I never pitch out.

What's your catcher's rating for his arm at catcher? Do you use "hold runner" when pitching with a potential base stealer on base? Do you ever make pickoff attempts (it isn't a waste to make a pickoff attempt if you don't get the runner; it keeps him closer; sabermetric analysis has shown it works, so I'm sure it's in the game)?

"Hold runner" seems to be a key. I sometimes forget to use it, and because of that I often let the computer control pitching, and if I don't do "hold runner" then it is near certain that a steal attempt will succeed. That means the first baseman (assuming a steal of second) isn't even on the base to get a pickoff throw, so the runner automatically gets a great jump.

CBeisbol · 10-11-2019, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbadguy

Not making a huge issue but this is over 8 seasons and at least 800 games played. I trade/ sign guys with history of steals but find with one pitch, steal I get very, very few steals. Have been getting better % with " forced steal"
CPU is still near automatic without pitch out. I haven't adjusted sliders.
It's just annoying.

I imagine you'd get better results by providing providing some data

NoOne · 10-11-2019, 11:52 AM

the game pays attention to what you do in this regard, at least... so if extrememely predictable and mashing 'steal base' every single time a fast guy gets on, it'll react accordingly.

you may have had normal odds at first, but if you are not hiding what you want to do at all, that could be a factor, or maybe not.. just throwing it out there.

look at overall %'s... sb attempts will swing more wildly than other statistics in any given year. the %-success isn't going to swing more than +/- 2% in a 30T league (30T total, not al/nl, which would be more volatile than that).

so, if you see a too low of a percentage relative to what you want for the league, go adjust some LTM. if the %'s are where they "should" be, for you, then it's in your head 100% about this problem or behaviour self-inflicting a lower %-success.

whether you or the AI, it's the same process in the code as far as the specific determination pass/fail.

jeffw3000 · 10-11-2019, 01:14 PM

I have never had a problem like this. I manage all my games, and my steals seem to be pretty realistic. My catchers also often throw out the CPU when stealing. If second is empty, and less than 2 outs, I always hold the runner on. I will sometimes switch to one pitch mode in a steal situation. I pitch out occasionally, but the CPU does not seem to go often when I pitch out. I cannot say that my catchers' caught stealing percentage is out of the ordinary.

As far as my stealing, I seem to get pretty accurate results. If anything, perhaps sometims I might have trouble reproducing the guy who steals 2 bases more than the guy who steals 20 bases or more. Players with 2 stolen bases often steal those base where the pitcher might not pay attention to them and they get a big jump. In OOTP it is not easy to pay attention to that and they seem to get caught more, or not get the jump to steal. With players that steal 10 or more bases, I have never had a problem. I am always respectful of pitchers with great moves, and catchers with good arms. I might never try to steal on Johnny Bench unless I am in dire need of a run, but I would run almost anytime I get on first against Omar Narvaez, if I have a fast runner.

old fat bald guy · 10-11-2019, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffw3000

If anything, perhaps sometims I might have trouble reproducing the guy who steals 2 bases more than the guy who steals 20 bases or more.

Yeah, this. This is not a big deal to me, but half of my players are guaranteed to steal zero bases because there's no situation in which I'd send them. I suppose they could steal on the back end of a double steal if I did that, but I only try to steal second base -- again, it's about not having a way to suss out "pitcher completely forgot slow guy is even over there." Maybe if my fastest guy was on third as the winning run and there were two outs and a pitcher batting and I didn't have anybody on the bench ... but it would have to be a weird situation.

10-10-2019, 05:01 PM	#1
mrbadguy Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 247	Stealing My apologies if this has come up before, thought maybe its different after all the updates. Im in 2026 and find still find it near impossible to steal in One pitch mode. Cant get jump or CPU pitches out and gets me. ** This is in relation to my players with 70 in stealing and speed. Therefore SB numbers for those who should steal are very low. (If I sim a game I may steal 2-3, but playing, nothing) CPU steals at will unless I pitch out. Over 8 seasons my catchers may have throw out10% of the runners, and that is a generous number. ( not counting simmed games). If I switch to pitch by pitch I can still more often, but still only get the CPU if I pitch out. I was wondering. Is this because I am playing in the modern area where steals are rare, therefore the 70 ratings are irrelevant.? I will be starting a Franchise in the Steal happy eras (dead ball or 80s) and am concerned it will the same issue. If so I will lose my mind if someone like Henderson, Raines or Cobb keep getting "cant get jump" Its probably the only part of the game that I have ever had an issue with. Thanks.

10-10-2019, 08:18 PM	#2
CBeisbol Banned Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Ban land in 3...2... Posts: 2,943	When this comes up it's usually that the user has unrealistic expectations, is looking at results over a small sample, or their bias is causing them to "feel" like one thing is happening while another thing is happening. I'd urge you to collect some hard data over a large sample of games. Otherwise you, and anyone who tries to help you, is just guessing. Keep in mind things like pitcher hold runner ratings and catcher defense ratings, as well as baserunning ratings need to be considered

10-11-2019, 02:01 AM	#3
mrbadguy Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 247	Not making a huge issue but this is over 8 seasons and at least 800 games played. I trade/ sign guys with history of steals but find with one pitch, steal I get very, very few steals. Have been getting better % with " forced steal" CPU is still near automatic without pitch out. I haven't adjusted sliders. It's just annoying.

10-11-2019, 03:01 AM	#4
Anyone Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 405	The cpu is not near-automatic against me, and I never pitch out. What's your catcher's rating for his arm at catcher? Do you use "hold runner" when pitching with a potential base stealer on base? Do you ever make pickoff attempts (it isn't a waste to make a pickoff attempt if you don't get the runner; it keeps him closer; sabermetric analysis has shown it works, so I'm sure it's in the game)? "Hold runner" seems to be a key. I sometimes forget to use it, and because of that I often let the computer control pitching, and if I don't do "hold runner" then it is near certain that a steal attempt will succeed. That means the first baseman (assuming a steal of second) isn't even on the base to get a pickoff throw, so the runner automatically gets a great jump.

10-11-2019, 11:52 AM	#6
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	the game pays attention to what you do in this regard, at least... so if extrememely predictable and mashing 'steal base' every single time a fast guy gets on, it'll react accordingly. you may have had normal odds at first, but if you are not hiding what you want to do at all, that could be a factor, or maybe not.. just throwing it out there. look at overall %'s... sb attempts will swing more wildly than other statistics in any given year. the %-success isn't going to swing more than +/- 2% in a 30T league (30T total, not al/nl, which would be more volatile than that). so, if you see a too low of a percentage relative to what you want for the league, go adjust some LTM. if the %'s are where they "should" be, for you, then it's in your head 100% about this problem or behaviour self-inflicting a lower %-success. whether you or the AI, it's the same process in the code as far as the specific determination pass/fail.

10-11-2019, 01:14 PM	#7
jeffw3000 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 296	I have never had a problem like this. I manage all my games, and my steals seem to be pretty realistic. My catchers also often throw out the CPU when stealing. If second is empty, and less than 2 outs, I always hold the runner on. I will sometimes switch to one pitch mode in a steal situation. I pitch out occasionally, but the CPU does not seem to go often when I pitch out. I cannot say that my catchers' caught stealing percentage is out of the ordinary. As far as my stealing, I seem to get pretty accurate results. If anything, perhaps sometims I might have trouble reproducing the guy who steals 2 bases more than the guy who steals 20 bases or more. Players with 2 stolen bases often steal those base where the pitcher might not pay attention to them and they get a big jump. In OOTP it is not easy to pay attention to that and they seem to get caught more, or not get the jump to steal. With players that steal 10 or more bases, I have never had a problem. I am always respectful of pitchers with great moves, and catchers with good arms. I might never try to steal on Johnny Bench unless I am in dire need of a run, but I would run almost anytime I get on first against Omar Narvaez, if I have a fast runner.