Please support OOTP on Steam - Page 5

MrMuse · 11-11-2013, 01:17 PM

I recently abandoned my "no early access" policy because I thought that perhaps I was becoming too cynical and so would see for myself whether or not it worked. You can see the general direction of it in one encapsulating thread. It is in the discussions section of the game Blackguards under the title Character Creation - where the response and advice of the entire community has just officially been blanked by the devs. Currently proving my point that it is nothing but a useless scam to get some early cash (I know this is just one game but I'm fairly certain this is how it will pan out for early access as a whole).

*edit* As it happens this is still a good game, and one that as been touted as "the best early access you can get". But this does not alter the fact that it demonstrates that the premise of early access itself is not valid in general. It is simply the equivalent of paying in advance for an unfinished game to be able to play the demo (and perhaps make you feel like you are supporting small companies). It is immoral to use morality as a marketing tool.

Fyrestorm3 · 11-11-2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMuse

For me, personally, (and those who support ea are free to their own opinion as they are with everything else) ea as a whole is not worth using because you are paying to play test - and in so doing, you are throwing away your fresh enjoyment of the finished game as you will have probably completed it before it reaches it's best state. To me this is like paying for a used car when you can buy a new one for almost the same price. If the benefit of being a responsible (i.e. heavy feedback) ea user were greater (that is..more than the paltry 10% reduction that is the norm) then perhaps I would be willing to spend my money and buy into the "help the little guy" rhetoric that both ea and Greenlight wave around like a flag of glory.

This. So much this. I think maybe I haven't seen many problems with games on Steam because I don't use Early Access at all. Just personally, I don't enjoy playing Beta or otherwise unfinished games. Whether through Steam or not, I can't bring myself to pay money for an unfinished game, regardless of the proposed benefits.

The Wolf · 11-11-2013, 01:37 PM

Beta testing is beta testing, call it what you will.

Since I don't care for it, I never do it. That way I never have any problems with it.

MrMuse · 11-11-2013, 02:18 PM

Just so you know guys, my previous comments about my experiences with games not working and refunds were nothing to do with ea games. And yes, Wolf, I tend to agree..you are basically paying to do a job that others used to be paid for.

But my reason for even discussing it is just to point out that it's another of the many small ways where Valve as a company are doing things that aren't right. I KNOW it's the buyer's ultimate decision to buy or not but to push ea and Greenlight by playing on what people believe to be "right" (i.e. helping devs) and basically advertising something in a way that isn't strictly true ("help make the games you want to play") is plain wrong [and probably illegal in most countries - like their User Agreement].

The Wolf · 11-11-2013, 05:08 PM

They give people a choice. After the first bad experience I would expect people to learn.

MrMuse · 11-11-2013, 05:33 PM

If I lived by that ideal then I would have left Steam before the end of my first year when they had point-blank refused to refund me on two occasions.

I accept there is choice...always..and especially with early access..I'm just saying that Steam have to take some responsibility as..regardless of whos fault it is..it's Steam you are paying. So if they don't want complaints and refund requests..then the onus is on them, and no one else, to ensure that what is on offer is quality product. If you buy a jar of coffee in a shop...get home and find that it has mould inside it..take it back to the shop...would they say "sorry but you agreed to our terms which say tough sh1t"? Would they say "It's not our fault and it's down to the manufacturer - you have to contact them about it"? Do they say "here is a dog turd, but it's a nice dog turd, it doesn't look like a dog turd, and if you buy it you are supporting small companies that would otherwise not exist"? No. But that is normal practice for Steam. The only reason we allow them to get away with it is that there is no other provider of such an expansive service and they have the market cornered.

The Wolf · 11-11-2013, 05:50 PM

GamersGate - Buy and download games for PC now

MrMuse · 11-11-2013, 05:56 PM

And? Did I say there weren't ANY similar services? "such an expansive service" judging by the numbers consumers agree. BECAUSE the market is corned Gamers Gate will die just as surely as GoG will, As Origin is, As Games For Windows Live already has, As the Ubisoft thing is in the process of, etc, etc, etc. And before some joker says it's because Steam do a good job that's bull...it's because Steam got there 1st and got big first...which enables them to offer more.

MrMuse · 11-18-2013, 11:00 AM

Here's another guy explaining what I've already told you:

Why I'm No Longer Buying Steam Games

i.e. That the Terms of Service/User Agreement would be considered illegal pretty much anywhere. (he also touches on the monopoly issue) Just happened to run into this whilst doing an unrelated search.

11-11-2013, 01:17 PM	#81
MrMuse Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 116	I recently abandoned my "no early access" policy because I thought that perhaps I was becoming too cynical and so would see for myself whether or not it worked. You can see the general direction of it in one encapsulating thread. It is in the discussions section of the game Blackguards under the title Character Creation - where the response and advice of the entire community has just officially been blanked by the devs. Currently proving my point that it is nothing but a useless scam to get some early cash (I know this is just one game but I'm fairly certain this is how it will pan out for early access as a whole). edit As it happens this is still a good game, and one that as been touted as "the best early access you can get". But this does not alter the fact that it demonstrates that the premise of early access itself is not valid in general. It is simply the equivalent of paying in advance for an unfinished game to be able to play the demo (and perhaps make you feel like you are supporting small companies). It is immoral to use morality as a marketing tool. Last edited by MrMuse; 11-11-2013 at 01:30 PM.

11-11-2013, 02:18 PM	#84
MrMuse Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 116	Just so you know guys, my previous comments about my experiences with games not working and refunds were nothing to do with ea games. And yes, Wolf, I tend to agree..you are basically paying to do a job that others used to be paid for. But my reason for even discussing it is just to point out that it's another of the many small ways where Valve as a company are doing things that aren't right. I KNOW it's the buyer's ultimate decision to buy or not but to push ea and Greenlight by playing on what people believe to be "right" (i.e. helping devs) and basically advertising something in a way that isn't strictly true ("help make the games you want to play") is plain wrong [and probably illegal in most countries - like their User Agreement]. Last edited by MrMuse; 11-11-2013 at 02:35 PM.

11-11-2013, 05:33 PM	#86
MrMuse Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 116	If I lived by that ideal then I would have left Steam before the end of my first year when they had point-blank refused to refund me on two occasions. I accept there is choice...always..and especially with early access..I'm just saying that Steam have to take some responsibility as..regardless of whos fault it is..it's Steam you are paying. So if they don't want complaints and refund requests..then the onus is on them, and no one else, to ensure that what is on offer is quality product. If you buy a jar of coffee in a shop...get home and find that it has mould inside it..take it back to the shop...would they say "sorry but you agreed to our terms which say tough sh1t"? Would they say "It's not our fault and it's down to the manufacturer - you have to contact them about it"? Do they say "here is a dog turd, but it's a nice dog turd, it doesn't look like a dog turd, and if you buy it you are supporting small companies that would otherwise not exist"? No. But that is normal practice for Steam. The only reason we allow them to get away with it is that there is no other provider of such an expansive service and they have the market cornered. Last edited by MrMuse; 11-11-2013 at 05:50 PM.

11-11-2013, 05:56 PM	#88
MrMuse Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 116	And? Did I say there weren't ANY similar services? "such an expansive service" judging by the numbers consumers agree. BECAUSE the market is corned Gamers Gate will die just as surely as GoG will, As Origin is, As Games For Windows Live already has, As the Ubisoft thing is in the process of, etc, etc, etc. And before some joker says it's because Steam do a good job that's bull...it's because Steam got there 1st and got big first...which enables them to offer more. Last edited by MrMuse; 11-11-2013 at 06:00 PM.

11-18-2013, 11:00 AM	#89
MrMuse Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 116	Here's another guy explaining what I've already told you: Why I'm No Longer Buying Steam Games i.e. That the Terms of Service/User Agreement would be considered illegal pretty much anywhere. (he also touches on the monopoly issue) Just happened to run into this whilst doing an unrelated search. Last edited by MrMuse; 11-18-2013 at 11:16 AM.