Take out Children Dying in OOTP

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 09:01 AM

I want to preface this by saying I love this sim, the development team has been awesome and I'll continue to be a customer and run my league with OOTP. I simply strongly disagree with a feature and a reply as to why the feature is included and think it needs to be corrected.

I don't know if this feature is in OOTP14 but if it is, it needs to be taken out of future versions.

Home - the second story

I tweeted my concern for this feature and got this back "We try to reflect real life in the game, and sadly, things like that can happen."

Now, I totally get the idea of lets try to be as realistic as we can. I do. But this takes it to a level that nobody should desire. Exactly what does having a child die in the sim engine bring to the game that a different injury cannot simply take the place of?

People don't play OOTP to be faced with the harsh realities of real life. They play it for fun.

I'm not saying it's offensive and I'm not saying it was done with intent to be funny or anything - I'm saying it was done with poor decision making.

Here's a conversation that will never, ever occur:

Q: "Hey what do you think of OOTP?"

A: "It's pretty good but have you noticed nobody's kid has died yet in the game? That's a bit unrealistic for me."

It's an unnecessary feature that will never have a user go "wow that is so cool and realistic" and instead go "wow that is messed up." which shouldn't be the outcome for a baseball sim.

Yes guys like Landon Powell lost a 4 month old last year, Pat Neshek lost his son days after birth in 2012 and Willie Harris' baby died during delivery in 2011

Is the next feature in OOTP 15 a possible murder charge for a player since Aaron Hernandez? Perhaps now with the tragic loss of Christopher Lane, OOTP should add a "sadistic bored teenager" death to players?

Sadly, things like this can happen so will they be included in OOTP 15 or does it make sense to not include them in a baseball sim?

So - I'll kindly ask the OOTP developers that if this feature does exist in OOTP 14, make sure you take it out of OOTP 15 and re-think the value of realism with regards to storylines.

Nobody needs you to go the extra mile like this to make the sim realistic - the sim is great, the developers are great, they just whiffed on this one but it needs to be fixed.

thanks!

RchW · 08-21-2013, 09:07 AM

That looks like an online league that has voluntarily/deliberately activated a storyline. AFAIK there is no such item live in a solo league unless activated by the user.

Bluenoser · 08-21-2013, 09:07 AM

This was discussed previously and the general consensus was it was OK.

JohnHoward · 08-21-2013, 09:11 AM

I agree with OP, and I have shared this view for a long time. It even still tweaks me a little when owners die. Why can't they just retire? Let's limit the realism to statistical realism and get rid of the real life stuff involving family members and non-playing personnel. Of course, player injuries and off-field accidents would still be legit. But speaking of which, even though we have dead children and dead owners, unless I have missed it, there is nothing in OOTP, injury or storyline that produces the death of a PLAYER. No Lyman Bostock, Thurman Munson, Nick Adenhart, Darryl Kile, Ken Hubbs, etc. type situations either in storylines or off-field injuries. And there shouldn't be either.

Oh, and turn off storylines.

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

That looks like an online league that has voluntarily/deliberately activated a storyline. AFAIK there is no such item live in a solo league unless activated by the user.

Yes we have storylines because 99% of them are not over the top. It's not like you can choose what types of storylines to use.

There's literally no point to having this specific storyline, that is my point

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

This was discussed previously and the general consensus was it was OK.

That's nice that the "consensus" was it was OK. Were there people that felt STRONGLY that it shouldn't be involved? I bet there are.

My point is, what does it bring to the game? The people that it does not phase would never ever write OOTP a letter like this

"Dear Developers - I like your game but the fact no player's child has died is simply too unrealistic for me."

But when you irk your CUSTOMERS because of an unnecessary storyline, you make your product or developers look insensitive so why do it?

So if the "consensus" is that it's okay to have children die, I assume everybody is cool with a feeder league player getting shot and killed while he's out for a jog by bored teenagers right?

I mean technically that has happened more recently than a players child dying so the consensus should agree it's a necessary feature right?

RchW · 08-21-2013, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coljesep

Yes we have storylines because 99% of them are not over the top. It's not like you can choose what types of storylines to use.

There's literally no point to having this specific storyline, that is my point

I agree. You gave the impression that you didn't know how it came about.

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I agree. You gave the impression that you didn't know how it came about.

Oh yeah, no I like the storylines. I think they are a nice touch. I get the point when a guy goes on a skiing trip and breaks his foot or gets suspended via PED or accidentally slices his hand with a box cutter. Those have game implications. They make sense.

The players kid dying does not.

I am curious if anybody has seen a player's wife give birth and then the player goes on Paternity? I have not... that happens a heck of a lot more than a player's kid dying and I am in my 5th season and haven't seen it yet

Bluenoser · 08-21-2013, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coljesep

That's nice that the "consensus" was it was OK. Were there people that felt STRONGLY that it shouldn't be involved? I bet there are.

My point is, what does it bring to the game? The people that it does not phase would never ever write OOTP a letter like this

"Dear Developers - I like your game but the fact no player's child has died is simply too unrealistic for me."

But when you irk your CUSTOMERS because of an unnecessary storyline, you make your product or developers look insensitive so why do it?

So if the "consensus" is that it's okay to have children die, I assume everybody is cool with a feeder league player getting shot and killed while he's out for a jog by bored teenagers right?

I mean technically that has happened more recently than a players child dying so the consensus should agree it's a necessary feature right?

I respect the fact that you don't care for this, I'm just pointing out to you that it was discussed previously.

It doesn't bother me at all. I have lost a child at a very young age irl. It still doesn't bother me that it's in the game.

It adds realism and immersion imo.

If you do a search you can probably find the thread.

And please, stop patronizing with the insinuations. Like "The consensus should agree", or the "Dear Developers" BS.

I have my opinion of this, you have yours. I respect yours, try doing the same, because I have ZERO interest in arguing with you whether it belongs in the game or not.

I like it and I hope it stays in.

rpriske · 08-21-2013, 09:44 AM

I am with the OP.

I haven't seen this and I hope I don't.

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I respect the fact that you don't care for this, I'm just pointing out to you that it was discussed previously.

It doesn't bother me at all. I have lost a child at a very young age irl. It still doesn't bother me that it's in the game.

It adds realism and immersion imo.

If you do a search you can probably find the thread.

And please, stop patronizing with the insinuations. Like "The consensus should agree", or the "Dear Developers" BS.

I have my opinion of this, you have yours. I respect yours, try doing the same, because I have ZERO interest in arguing with you whether it belongs in the game or not.

I like it and I hope it stays in.

First and most importantly, I'm sorry you had to go through that- that sucks.

Secondly, your taking an example of a letter that would be written (Dear Developers) and claiming I am patronizing? I'm merely suggesting that somebody who might write a letter to a software developer might start it off by saying

"Dear Developers,"

That wasn't patronizing, it was giving an example.

The feature is pointless and only brings a dose of reality that brings nothing to a baseball sim. You have people who say it should be gone, the people that say keep it wouldn't notice if it was gone - so why keep it? It's a poor development choice.

The Wolf · 08-21-2013, 10:18 AM

I say this every time this subject comes up:

TURN STORYLINES OFF.

And keep them off. This is a baseball sim, not the Jerry Springer Show.

rpriske · 08-21-2013, 10:22 AM

Most of the storyline stuff is great. I have yet to see (in one of my games) something that bothered me. Shutting it all off because of one bad storyline is like getting rid of a wasp's nest using a flamethrower.

Nunyer · 08-21-2013, 10:25 AM

Damn... there is a dead kid storyline in the game?!?

Yea, I will lean towards the OP on this one... It doesn't bother me that it's there, bad things happen. But I don't get the thought process that would lead to it's inclusion. Of all the story line angles you could have for a guy missing time... don't get why you would sway to the macabre... with children no less. It's likely not going to gain you a single customer while potentially alienating existing ones. As the in-game commentator would say... "they pulled a boner here"... poorly thought out anyway you want to slice it.

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

Most of the storyline stuff is great. I have yet to see (in one of my games) something that bothered me. Shutting it all off because of one bad storyline is like getting rid of a wasp's nest using a flamethrower.

Right. I don't need to take storylines out completely. My gripe is not that storylines are bad. My gripe is this story line has no business in a baseball sim.

It's just not needed to make the sim realistic or fun. So just take it out.

Mr. Baseball · 08-21-2013, 10:27 AM

Not sure why so many people hate storylines. Granted, this one might be over the top, but most of them are fun and make things interesting.

coljesep · 08-21-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

Not sure why so many people hate storylines. Granted, this one might be over the top, but most of them are fun and make things interesting.

I'm with you Mr. Baseball. I think they are great 99% of the time. I've never been like "wow that is messed up" when a player gets injured on a guys weekend ski trip.

Sure I've wondered why he is skiing in Colorado in the middle of the summer but hey it can't be perfect.

This one just made me think "why would they even want to include this?" realism yes, a lot of things happen in real life that are not in the game though.

Cryomaniac · 08-21-2013, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

Most of the storyline stuff is great. I have yet to see (in one of my games) something that bothered me. Shutting it all off because of one bad storyline is like getting rid of a wasp's nest using a flamethrower.

Yeah, but destroying a wasp nest with a flamethrower would be fun!

As for the thread, storylines like this should maybe be a bit rarer, but I don't agree with removing them. The storyline engine should also be fixed to stop things happening in season that really should be off season only and vice versa.

The Wolf · 08-21-2013, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

Not sure why so many people hate storylines. Granted, this one might be over the top, but most of them are fun and make things interesting.

I don't hate them. I think that they are unnecessary and that many of them are silly and/or badly done, so I turn them off. I urge anyone with a problem of any kind with them to do the same.

Personally I'm just here to play baseball and chew gum, and I'm all out of gum.

The Wolf · 08-21-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Yeah, but destroying a wasp nest with a flamethrower would be fun!

It is.

Panama Pump

08-21-2013, 09:01 AM	#1
coljesep All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: 'Merica Posts: 566	Take out Children Dying in OOTP I want to preface this by saying I love this sim, the development team has been awesome and I'll continue to be a customer and run my league with OOTP. I simply strongly disagree with a feature and a reply as to why the feature is included and think it needs to be corrected. I don't know if this feature is in OOTP14 but if it is, it needs to be taken out of future versions. Home - the second story I tweeted my concern for this feature and got this back "We try to reflect real life in the game, and sadly, things like that can happen." Now, I totally get the idea of lets try to be as realistic as we can. I do. But this takes it to a level that nobody should desire. Exactly what does having a child die in the sim engine bring to the game that a different injury cannot simply take the place of? People don't play OOTP to be faced with the harsh realities of real life. They play it for fun. I'm not saying it's offensive and I'm not saying it was done with intent to be funny or anything - I'm saying it was done with poor decision making. Here's a conversation that will never, ever occur: Q: "Hey what do you think of OOTP?" A: "It's pretty good but have you noticed nobody's kid has died yet in the game? That's a bit unrealistic for me." It's an unnecessary feature that will never have a user go "wow that is so cool and realistic" and instead go "wow that is messed up." which shouldn't be the outcome for a baseball sim. Yes guys like Landon Powell lost a 4 month old last year, Pat Neshek lost his son days after birth in 2012 and Willie Harris' baby died during delivery in 2011 Is the next feature in OOTP 15 a possible murder charge for a player since Aaron Hernandez? Perhaps now with the tragic loss of Christopher Lane, OOTP should add a "sadistic bored teenager" death to players? Sadly, things like this can happen so will they be included in OOTP 15 or does it make sense to not include them in a baseball sim? So - I'll kindly ask the OOTP developers that if this feature does exist in OOTP 14, make sure you take it out of OOTP 15 and re-think the value of realism with regards to storylines. Nobody needs you to go the extra mile like this to make the sim realistic - the sim is great, the developers are great, they just whiffed on this one but it needs to be fixed. thanks!

08-21-2013, 09:07 AM	#2
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	That looks like an online league that has voluntarily/deliberately activated a storyline. AFAIK there is no such item live in a solo league unless activated by the user. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

08-21-2013, 10:27 AM	#16
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	Not sure why so many people hate storylines. Granted, this one might be over the top, but most of them are fun and make things interesting. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-21-2013, 09:07 AM	#3
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,683	This was discussed previously and the general consensus was it was OK.

08-21-2013, 09:11 AM	#4
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	I agree with OP, and I have shared this view for a long time. It even still tweaks me a little when owners die. Why can't they just retire? Let's limit the realism to statistical realism and get rid of the real life stuff involving family members and non-playing personnel. Of course, player injuries and off-field accidents would still be legit. But speaking of which, even though we have dead children and dead owners, unless I have missed it, there is nothing in OOTP, injury or storyline that produces the death of a PLAYER. No Lyman Bostock, Thurman Munson, Nick Adenhart, Darryl Kile, Ken Hubbs, etc. type situations either in storylines or off-field injuries. And there shouldn't be either. Oh, and turn off storylines.

08-21-2013, 09:44 AM	#10
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,988 Blog Entries: 1	I am with the OP. I haven't seen this and I hope I don't.

08-21-2013, 10:22 AM	#13
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,988 Blog Entries: 1	Most of the storyline stuff is great. I have yet to see (in one of my games) something that bothered me. Shutting it all off because of one bad storyline is like getting rid of a wasp's nest using a flamethrower.

08-21-2013, 10:25 AM	#14
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	Damn... there is a dead kid storyline in the game?!? Yea, I will lean towards the OP on this one... It doesn't bother me that it's there, bad things happen. But I don't get the thought process that would lead to it's inclusion. Of all the story line angles you could have for a guy missing time... don't get why you would sway to the macabre... with children no less. It's likely not going to gain you a single customer while potentially alienating existing ones. As the in-game commentator would say... "they pulled a boner here"... poorly thought out anyway you want to slice it.