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Old 05-08-2013, 11:28 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:36 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
LIMITED free speech.
Which right I myself am invoking, quoting my response here so that it appears near the top of this default forum "page." Because, it's important to put this "issue," and thread, to bed.
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Oh, now I get what tejdog1 is talking about. Here's how to replicate his situation:
  1. Start a new test game with an upcoming inaugural draft.
  2. In Manager Options, take on Commissioner powers.
  3. Seize a job as GM. The game will rescout using your current scout.
  4. Look at the draft pool. The talent curve appears normal (at least to me; remember, this is a game right out of the box with all defaults).
  5. Now go to Manager Options and Act As GM of another team.
  6. Go back to the draft pool. At first, nothing appears to have changed.
  7. Click Scouting and click the name of this team's scout.
  8. Everything will be re-evaluated and ALL players look mediocre.
  9. Now go back to your own team (reset Act as GM to the team that hired you) and repeat step 7.
  10. Note that the normal distribution of great to poor players (as rated by YOUR scout) has been restored.
This goes back to what beorn and endgame said, quoting beorn:
Quote:
However, I'm pretty sure that the explanation is technical, and it has to do with what Endgame suggested. 1) The commish cannot see through other scouts' eyes by using the "act as' feature. 2) Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that the scouts of AI teams don't really exist in the same sense as human teams' scouts do. I'm 99% certain I read an explanation of this a year or two ago, with Markus explaining that the game would slow way down if each team actually had all those ratings to load into memory. So the alarming screens of these other coaches are out of wack because they are calling up info that doesn't really exist.
So yes, one more very gentle reminder: The HUGE, MASSIVE thread titles should be toned down, although I certainly support free speech.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:57 AM   #63
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Possible solution: Disabled and then re-enable scouting in the game setup. That will run a re-scout of the leagues. Not sure why this issue arose initially, I tested feeders a couple of days ago and that stuff worked just fine.

Edit: Yes, "Act-as" does not let you properly view the players through other scouts.

Last edited by Markus Heinsohn; 05-08-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:26 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
So yes, one more very gentle reminder: The HUGE, MASSIVE thread titles should be toned down, although I certainly support free speech.
Well, I'll support free speech, until I can find a way to sell it.....
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Edit: Yes, "Act-as" does not let you properly view the players through other scouts.
Just out of curiosity, why? Just to make it harder to "cheat"?
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:13 PM   #66
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That's an astonishing amount of college/HS teams are you using real ones and did you get logos? Also my talent pool in a 191 (College/HS) is pretty good for the first year with more talent upcoming when they graduate.

Also, I never thought of expanding Rookie League that's a great idea...

For Juco teams did you add a separate feeder league for them? Seperate from your other college feeder I mean cause that's a cool idea...maybe seperate HS and prep schools as well (spitball idea sorry for my game)

Anyway Im fascinated as that is an astonishing amount of feeder league teams.
I use real colleges, but not real high school teams (too much work). I have four, 30 team leagues broken down by region (SE, NE, Central and West Coast). I didn't even try to set an NCAA structure, just put the best teams in each region together. The game is not really set up for real NCAA ball, so this just assures real team names for the players (and still is fun to watch/keep up with). They both play 64 games, starting in mid-February.

The Juco league was a 30 team league, with ages 17-18 playing. I stopped that in this version of the league just to cut down a little on team numbers. I also had an international high school league that was cut.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:15 PM   #67
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Just out of curiosity, why? Just to make it harder to "cheat"?
Not to answer for Markus, but it was answered earlier: The AI team scouts don't run actual reports to save time and space. They use their scouts in a more streamlined way.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:07 PM   #68
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Thanks, Markus, for verifying the Act As point of view. This isn't the place to put this, but for now it'll do. One interesting place to utilize the Act As to change a point of view is the Stats and Leader screen. It's real interesting to change team to team and notice the highlights change with them. FWIW
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:16 PM   #69
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Why not just discuss it here?
Didn't want to hijack the thread?
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:24 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by GrantDawg View Post
I use real colleges, but not real high school teams (too much work). I have four, 30 team leagues broken down by region (SE, NE, Central and West Coast). I didn't even try to set an NCAA structure, just put the best teams in each region together. The game is not really set up for real NCAA ball, so this just assures real team names for the players (and still is fun to watch/keep up with). They both play 64 games, starting in mid-February.

The Juco league was a 30 team league, with ages 17-18 playing. I stopped that in this version of the league just to cut down a little on team numbers. I also had an international high school league that was cut.
Wow. The NCAA structure is a pain I just put them in correct divisions and make the playoffs fit what I have. The HS one is real teams made up format because I know nothing about HS baseball. But man your league/set up sounds incredible and it sounds like you can rely on your feeder leagues which is exactly what I want to do.

I just have one large college and one small HS (real 30 teams) but I was thinking about adding Independent leagues (either has ML alternatives or AAA because they're not quite ML talent)

Also I was contemplating adding the cape cod league and your idea the JUco league. But I had this kind of neat idea of doing some U-17 leagues like a travel team and such. Especially if I'm going to try to make my league strongly dependent on feeders I figure I need all I can get.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:19 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by DustinthePOWERHOUSE View Post
Wow. The NCAA structure is a pain I just put them in correct divisions and make the playoffs fit what I have. The HS one is real teams made up format because I know nothing about HS baseball. But man your league/set up sounds incredible and it sounds like you can rely on your feeder leagues which is exactly what I want to do.

I just have one large college and one small HS (real 30 teams) but I was thinking about adding Independent leagues (either has ML alternatives or AAA because they're not quite ML talent)

Also I was contemplating adding the cape cod league and your idea the JUco league. But I had this kind of neat idea of doing some U-17 leagues like a travel team and such. Especially if I'm going to try to make my league strongly dependent on feeders I figure I need all I can get.
I've gone through a lot of testing, and hit-and-miss setups. I would love to have an independent league, but the game just doesn't deal with them like I would want (the ability to sell players to the majors. No long term contracts, etc.). Having the Cape Cod league would be interesting, as like a summer college league. I just don't see how I could work it with the draft structure.

In the end, the inability to work out how to make a useful independent league is the reason I went for the extended rookie league idea. Most of the floating free agents in this set-up are low talent guys that MIGHT develop into something. So, adding another rookie level with 30 teams absorbs another 750 players at least, encourages teams to hold more draft players longer, and the 100 games gives them more game time to develop. Then I extended the SSA, because it made no sense to promote guys out of the rookie league into a short season league.

My only worry about adding the ERL was if it became the bottom level for the ML affilates. I didn't want all the teams draft picks going straight to it, but instead wanted it to be considered the top tier rookie level. Luckly, that is how it worked out (I wish we could set which team is the bottom tier team). The only issue I had was in expansion. When I added the teams to the ERL for the expansion teams, it made them their bottom team. But only 2 out of 32 messed up, so minor win.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:46 PM   #72
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I've gone through a lot of testing, and hit-and-miss setups. I would love to have an independent league, but the game just doesn't deal with them like I would want (the ability to sell players to the majors. No long term contracts, etc.). Having the Cape Cod league would be interesting, as like a summer college league. I just don't see how I could work it with the draft structure.

In the end, the inability to work out how to make a useful independent league is the reason I went for the extended rookie league idea. Most of the floating free agents in this set-up are low talent guys that MIGHT develop into something. So, adding another rookie level with 30 teams absorbs another 750 players at least, encourages teams to hold more draft players longer, and the 100 games gives them more game time to develop. Then I extended the SSA, because it made no sense to promote guys out of the rookie league into a short season league.

My only worry about adding the ERL was if it became the bottom level for the ML affilates. I didn't want all the teams draft picks going straight to it, but instead wanted it to be considered the top tier rookie level. Luckly, that is how it worked out (I wish we could set which team is the bottom tier team). The only issue I had was in expansion. When I added the teams to the ERL for the expansion teams, it made them their bottom team. But only 2 out of 32 messed up, so minor win.
Okay, so let's say Independent Leagues don't function as they technically should. What if you took an independent league, formatted it so it was a AAA level league (talent depletion I don't think it should be the same level as the MLB) and then to mimic the Independents you:

Allow FA's from different leagues (Dontrelle Willis)
Allow FA's to leave for different leagues (not the same, but essentially MLB could "purchase" the contracts of FA's)
Lower the amount of years UNTIL FA...so 2 or 3?
Do whatever with Arbo (do Independent Leagues have arbo?)

Again, this isn't how an Independent league works, from my understanding, but it's a mimic of it. Have you tested that out? If it's possible to essentially make it so only the MLB can "purchase FA contracts" from the independents (don't know if it is) then it's fairly close to realistic- fairly.

I've been basically operating without a SA league, so instead just AAA/AA/A/R because SA & R are too short. I feel as though that damages my prospects because a) they're not getting enough playing time b) rosters aren't big enough c) they're skipping a step. All those three reasons are why I'm very interested in your idea of expanding SA/R and adding a teams...and I'm not overly concerned about them being fictional as I could just "cheat" and make them teams from something else (I like logos I'm a complete sucker for 'em)

I'm not 100 percent sure what you're talking about with the ERL, can you elaborate?

Also, you think (since I'm adding feeder league teams anyway/feeder leagues) if I added a u-17 league- like a travel league (1 year then into the draft for top prospects) and then Juco, Prep School HS's (really just some HS's I missed) would that work? I just want to have more feeder leagues/players so I can make it so, I think I said this already, my league is very dependent on feeder league players and International Complex players and not forgein FA'S.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:06 PM   #73
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I don't have time to read throughout this entire thread, but is this a legit issue?
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:16 PM   #74
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no.....
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:43 PM   #75
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is the huge problem the lack of quality?

thats the only thing I have seen, there are a few stars and the computer takes them when they should, and then its all scrubs. The effect for me has been that there are a bunch of guys hitting over .300 (like 30 of them in a 16 team league) and then a bunch of guys hitting .200-.220.

Same with pitchers, I have a bunch of good ones with ERAs around 2.0-2.4 and then a ton of really bad starters with 6.0+ ERAs, seems like the talent needs to be distributed better.

But that might not be what you are trying to convey in your OP, can't tell...
I have seen this as well, and whether or not its related to the OP's issue, I think it's a fairly significant issue.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:45 PM   #76
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Okay, so let's say Independent Leagues don't function as they technically should. What if you took an independent league, formatted it so it was a AAA level league (talent depletion I don't think it should be the same level as the MLB) and then to mimic the Independents you:

Allow FA's from different leagues (Dontrelle Willis)
Allow FA's to leave for different leagues (not the same, but essentially MLB could "purchase" the contracts of FA's)
Lower the amount of years UNTIL FA...so 2 or 3?
Do whatever with Arbo (do Independent Leagues have arbo?)

Again, this isn't how an Independent league works, from my understanding, but it's a mimic of it. Have you tested that out? If it's possible to essentially make it so only the MLB can "purchase FA contracts" from the independents (don't know if it is) then it's fairly close to realistic- fairly.

I've been basically operating without a SA league, so instead just AAA/AA/A/R because SA & R are too short. I feel as though that damages my prospects because a) they're not getting enough playing time b) rosters aren't big enough c) they're skipping a step. All those three reasons are why I'm very interested in your idea of expanding SA/R and adding a teams...and I'm not overly concerned about them being fictional as I could just "cheat" and make them teams from something else (I like logos I'm a complete sucker for 'em)

I'm not 100 percent sure what you're talking about with the ERL, can you elaborate?

Also, you think (since I'm adding feeder league teams anyway/feeder leagues) if I added a u-17 league- like a travel league (1 year then into the draft for top prospects) and then Juco, Prep School HS's (really just some HS's I missed) would that work? I just want to have more feeder leagues/players so I can make it so, I think I said this already, my league is very dependent on feeder league players and International Complex players and not forgein FA'S.
Here is the thing with Independent leagues. You can set them to use the FA's from the major league. You can set them with 1 year FA's. You can give them very poor financials so they have little money. What you can't do is give the MLB teams the ability to by out their contracts (you can allow trades of players. That is as close as you can get), and you can't prevent players signing long term contracts. When I tried to do this in 2012, guys would sign 5-6 year deals for 26K a year when they really had a shot to develop into ML players. There is no way to limit contract years. That's why I haven't made another Independent league (I would really love to have a couple).

As for the other feeders, sure you could do that. A one year travel league sounds cool, except your really just creating one year high school players. Juco's are nice and more HS (prep or otherwise).

I am really not sure what your asking about the ERL. What part didn't you understand?
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:30 PM   #77
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Wrong and wrong. Yes, there was a huge massive problem that happened in OOTP 13 last year. IIRC, the problem involved players being hit by the pitch that would result in injury. It happened around the 7th or 8th patch. Many here in the community saw the full affects of the bug and reported it. However, both Markus and Andreas were on vacation. Luckily, I happened to catch Sebastian Palkowski online that day and reported the problem to him. He then in turn had to call Andreas on the phone in the middle of the night there in Germany and Andreas had to go and hurry and remove the just released patch/update and build a new patch.

I honestly don't meant to boast or brag but thankfully I was around here on the boards to help handle that mess. So, yeah, huge massive problems can happen even in OOTP. True though, they are few and far between. Others are just significant issues - like the one Tejdog1 is may/may not be experiencing.

Yes, you are "Wrong and Wrong". There's been plenty of bugs, but there has NEVER been one that caused the sky to fall or the world to come to an end. If you like exaggerating, be my guest. HUGE and MASSIVE in all in upper case is nothing more than a panic post when you've done absolutely no research or discussion to see if it is in fact a problem or something that was caused by game settings.

My point is - before making a panic post, do some research.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:49 PM   #78
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I don't have time to read throughout this entire thread, but is this a legit issue?
ROFL

Executive summary only!
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 05-08-2013, 08:26 PM   #79
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Here is the thing with Independent leagues. You can set them to use the FA's from the major league. You can set them with 1 year FA's. You can give them very poor financials so they have little money. What you can't do is give the MLB teams the ability to by out their contracts (you can allow trades of players. That is as close as you can get), and you can't prevent players signing long term contracts. When I tried to do this in 2012, guys would sign 5-6 year deals for 26K a year when they really had a shot to develop into ML players. There is no way to limit contract years. That's why I haven't made another Independent league (I would really love to have a couple).

As for the other feeders, sure you could do that. A one year travel league sounds cool, except your really just creating one year high school players. Juco's are nice and more HS (prep or otherwise).

I am really not sure what your asking about the ERL. What part didn't you understand?

Okay I don't see a way around the buy out problem because technically when you promote a minor league player (AAA or whatever) you're purchasing the contract and the game doesn't seem to recognize that as such...

But in a way that presents and interesting idea.

If you create a independent league as a minor league team (AAA level) with more talented players (which is possible) and you coordinate it to be a different type of minor league "division" or "league" then technically it solves the problem somewhat. Since you'd have poor teams (you could still do that) if they get promoted to MLB (the players) then they're being bought out (technically) and they wouldn't be signed to "long term contracts" since minor league players never are.

Now I know it'd be affiliated with MLB so it's not independent or an outlaw league, but that would seemingly be the best way to do it despite it not being what it technically is.

Aside from that, what if you created a league as a completely independent (AAA) level with minor league contracts. Technically that'd be like a feeder league since you can't trade for those players AND they can't sign long deals. There's no affiliation...and the only real problem is that you can't buy them out to the majors, and I'm not sure how you would move them over. Ugh I felt like that was close!

Anyway I realize the feeder league would only be 1 year, but the only point for that is to increase the amount of players without ruining the structure I have. For college/HS I'm going to do D1, D2, D3 so that should solve that issue.

For the added Rookie league it sounds like you essentially created another minor league level to pamper top picks or picks in general at a lower, not lowest, level which is a fantastic idea...I definitely am going to try it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:56 PM   #80
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Aside from that, what if you created a league as a completely independent (AAA) level with minor league contracts. Technically that'd be like a feeder league since you can't trade for those players AND they can't sign long deals. There's no affiliation...and the only real problem is that you can't buy them out to the majors, and I'm not sure how you would move them over. Ugh I felt like that was close!
Players would just be stuck on that minor league team until they became minor league free agents.....
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