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03-14-2019, 05:19 PM | #61 |
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No, if you ignore your team the AI will do the best it can. "Depleting" your team, however, is a different story - thus "tanking".
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03-14-2019, 06:00 PM | #62 | |||
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There are countless articles on here on how to build "championship level" teams on just DEF alone, so Im going to assume that DEF is as equally, if not more important than offense... |
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03-14-2019, 07:14 PM | #63 | |||
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I personally feel it is more important, just my opinion. Thus the reason for improving players within the allowed tools available. |
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03-14-2019, 08:01 PM | #64 | |
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Is selling your best player for points any worse? What about selling your two best players to save up for a star that you know you can't afford until next season? It's really a lot more gray than you're making out to be. Honestly, I wouldn't be upset by CapeCodCranberry's team being in a different division in my league any more than a team training players at key defensive positions. Last edited by kingcharlesxii; 03-14-2019 at 08:04 PM. |
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03-14-2019, 08:46 PM | #65 | |
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Tanking is when you ****can most of your players for complete garbage. I don't think it's worth arguing about selling your best players to raise funds. If I started selling my best players would I field Iron cards? I can't, they were all auto sold.....not saved for a tank job. |
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03-14-2019, 09:19 PM | #66 |
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An all-iron team is different than the one that was brought up as the example. I think everybody would agree that is tanking.
That said, a player playing out of position could easily put out less value than an iron player. Don't put too much value on card ratings. There are bronzes that can play well at Diamond and Silvers that can play at Perfect. EDIT: Basically, what I'm saying is that a team that is making the 1899 Cleveland Spiders look like a quality ballclub, clearly that's tanking. I'm not sure if I'd say a team with a decent amount of non-irons that loses 100 games is tanking. I've said my piece, feel free to disagree. Ultimately it's up to the OOTP crew to make that distinction and I don't envy them finding that fine line. Last edited by kingcharlesxii; 03-14-2019 at 09:27 PM. |
03-14-2019, 09:40 PM | #67 | |
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Cheers. |
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03-14-2019, 09:56 PM | #68 |
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I dont think you will find many people that like to see "tanking", but the only argument I see is that it sucks because someone that is not you gets to play the "tanking" team 19 times or whatever.
But how is that any different than when you get stuck in a division with 4 teams having 90+ wins and two of those teams miss out on playoffs? And then some other division has 1st place with 84 wins? Its the luck of the draw any time a season starts really, either way. Sometimes you have really strong opponents in your div and its tougher for you since you have to play them 19 times and sometimes you get an awful team that you get to play 19 times. And you cant play the "well its against the rules if you arent trying to win" - in capecod's case you could argue that he is trying to retool his team to win later instead of this season, and he did say he actually gave it a whirl for 5 seasons to no avail before adopting this approach to retool the team. I think thats perfectly reasonable, no pun intended Meanwhile, completely separate train of though - this is a baseball simulator. PT mode is free and there are no prizes. There is literally nothing on the line, other than I guess to say you won such and such league. Many people like random things about OOTP like historical leagues, seeing how so and so would do in such and such scenario. What is X and Y played on the same team. Etc. If someone wants to field an all X team and see how they did in perfect league, why cant they? Or if they want to send a band of bronze and silver misfits out there against "perfect level" competition, why cant they? Or if they decide the expensive team they built just isnt cutting it, and they sell most of their players so they can buy other players or buy packs or change their team concept, why cant they? Who is any individual here to dictate what another can and cant do for their enjoyment of the game. If they managed to get their team to perfect league, then havent they earned the right to do whatever they want for a season? If they truly are "tanking" then they will be out of the league next season anyways. I personally think its fine for people to do whatever they want with their teams, within reason (as in nothing that seems like an exploit or intentional up and down league hopping over and over). There is no reset/rebuild option, so people have to take matters into their own hands if they are trying to do that. And if one of these teams happens to be in your league/division, deal with it. People have to deal with mega teams when they start out and play them when they are in bronze, silver, etc. Thats not fair either. Nor is it when the luck of the draw places 4 90 win teams in your division. Or various other scenarios. In capecod's case here though, I dont think he is doing anything wrong as described by his post. |
03-14-2019, 10:25 PM | #69 | |
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Note - In the year I trained two players, my win% dropped from 45% to 43%. The year I trained, my ERA went up about a tenth and the team lost a few extra games. Not too much of an impact. It didn't take many games for them to be better than the guys they replaced, and by the end of the season, they were much better and canceled out most of what had been lost it seems. Last edited by <Pion>; 03-15-2019 at 12:00 AM. |
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03-14-2019, 10:54 PM | #70 | |
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How many WAR did you lose at the position you were training though? I'd bet that putting an iron instead of training would drop your win % a similar amount. I'd test out that hypothesis myself but I don't want to be accused of tanking. Last edited by kingcharlesxii; 03-14-2019 at 10:56 PM. |
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03-14-2019, 11:57 PM | #71 | |
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The year before training, at 2B/SS it was 1.8/-0.3 The year during training, 2.9/0.3 The year after training, 2.1/2.0 The 2nd year after, 3.0/1.8 So the net total each of the four years was 1.5, 3.2, 4.1, 4.8 As for 1B, the four years (before, during, two years after) followed a similar pattern with 0.4/0.8/1.2/1.9 Net effect of the two trainings, WAR went from 1.9 before, 4.0 during, and 5.3 and 6.7 after. I don't think an iron in place of them could have done the same. As for you being accused of tanking when training, it was already stated that the Devs gave the OK to it, so feel free. |
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03-15-2019, 06:40 AM | #72 | |
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When you tank, losing on purpose, you adversely effect the entire OOTP community.
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03-15-2019, 06:47 AM | #73 | |
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The rules as outlined by OOTP have the right to tell you what you can and can't do. The rules clearly state that you cannot lose on purpose. Players here are only saying to play be the rules. Next question?
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03-15-2019, 08:32 AM | #74 | |
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There is blatantly trying to lose (all irons in wrong positions, multiple seasons of .300 win %), and there is trying rebuilding your team. There is a difference. And sometimes there is no option to rebuild without selling players/losing/whatever. As I said above, im all about taking action against people who exploit/show a pattern of abuse. Im not in favor punishing someone for a single season where they are trying to rebuild. I haven't seen any "rules" against rebuilding. *EDIT* also, just to note - there is no clear, easily accessible "rules". I couldnt find anything in the game client, nor if there a clear rules post here on the forums. Maybe some dev mentioned something in a one off post somewhere, but thats not easily accessible to all players. Even if there was a rules post on the forums, you assume all players read the the forums. I even tried to search for OOTP terms of service to see if there is anything in there, but I cant find it anywhere. The point is, there are these alleged rules - but the rules arent clearly stated in an accessible place from what I can tell. Also, I would expect many of the people who random "tank" probably dont even use the forums or have a clue whether its against the rules or not. Last edited by bobbycockstrong; 03-15-2019 at 08:38 AM. |
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03-15-2019, 08:36 AM | #75 | |
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I'm certainly not advocating tanking with all irons (as I said earlier) but there's no denying that you're weakening your team in-season with training a new position. That's why I'd like to see it removed. There's a reason you don't see similar modes in other games allowing this. The OOTP staff has blessed training as okay so clearly you can do that. However, I'm hoping they revisit allowing training in 20. Last edited by kingcharlesxii; 03-15-2019 at 08:40 AM. |
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03-15-2019, 08:44 AM | #76 | |
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03-15-2019, 08:51 AM | #77 |
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I think we have reached the point where we pose the question to the OOTP staff. What is defined as "tanking"; what are it's limits, where are these descriptions posted, and what is the punishment, if any.
We can go around in circles forever and we're never going to find a resolution by ourselves. If the Devs are ok not having some kind of reset or rebuild function, then they are going to have to define clearly what "tanking" is, or is not. |
03-15-2019, 08:57 AM | #78 | |
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I only know how it's been for me, but my players that I trained at positions where they were either not rated at all or had low ratings there, still had a solid WAR for that season. But that was probably because I was retraining guys who were very strong defensively and were able to train to a high level at their new position quickly. I really hope they don't take the training option away since it can be used in a way that will not only improve your team in the long run, but even in the short run, your team can still do quite well (in each season I trained more than one player, I either made the playoffs or nearly did). Obviously, how well you do in the short run depends on lots of factors, like how well matched they are for the new position and how many you are training at once. Edit: As an example, I'm pretty sure Willie McGee (82 OVR) didn't have a rating at LF nor RF (the one currently in the AH didn't and I don't remember mine having ratings there). So when I trained him in LF, he still had a 4.4 WAR in 128 games played. Of course, he had a great year offensively, but still, his defense wasn't even that bad.
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03-15-2019, 09:03 AM | #79 | |
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For the record... The team has two perfects, two diamonds and 10 golds on their reserve roster and plays silvers, bronzes and irons in their place. They went from 80-82 to winning 23% of their games, Last edited by <Pion>; 03-15-2019 at 09:05 AM. |
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03-15-2019, 09:09 AM | #80 | |
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Really if you're so tired of a team, just leave it the way it is and start a new one or quit playing. |
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