"Swing away and attempt to achieve a good lead"

Elendil · 03-31-2018, 01:05 PM

One of my little peeves about OOTP 18 is the absence of a "swing away and attempt to achieve a good lead" option. If you want to try to steal, either you have to take the pitch, or you have to force-send the runner (run & hit, hit & run). I didn't see this in the feature list for 19, but just thought I'd ask. Any plans to add this option?

Silfir · 03-31-2018, 01:50 PM

You know, this is a really interesting topic. As a complete baseball foreigner (my background is in German-made soccer management games like Anstoss) I never questioned that the hitter would always just take the pitch when I wanted a base stolen. I always assumed that there was a reason they had to.

My best guess is that if your hitter is asked to "swing away", i.e. swing at good pitches and stay off the bad ones and just in general take the at bat in whatever way he deems ideal, it's not safe for the baserunner to try to run for the next base, because he does not know what his batter is going to do at any given moment. "Steal Base", "Hit&Run" and "Run&Hit" all have that one thing in common: The runner knows what the batter is going to do, or try to do at any rate.

I'd be very grateful indeed for anyone with baseball knowledge to shed light on the issue for me.

Number4 · 03-31-2018, 03:07 PM

IRL, both things are in action. Sometimes the batter does take, sometimes not, sometimes he even intentionally swings and misses to distract the catcher.

"Steal second" would be the almost cleanest steal, giving the runner a very good opportunity to steal, at the cost of the batter intentionally taking and therefore often taking a strike, even from a fat pitch down the middle he could mash.

The best stealing rate would be a "Steal, batter distracts" - this would always lead to a strike, but might mess with the catcher (not in game)

Run and Hit is giving the batter full reign about what he swings at and not, however the runner has to run, which lowers his odds.

What is asked for is: Batter does swing when he wants, runner does run when he wants. Which would be a balance between those extremes. (not in game)

Hit and run isn't a steal play at all, a steal can only result from a botched hit and run. Instead, the batter tries to make contact no matter what, usually because the runner is slow and you want to send him to avoid a double play.

Elendil · 03-31-2018, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Number4

What is asked for is: Batter does swing when he wants, runner does run when he wants. Which would be a balance between those extremes. (not in game)

Yep. I do often use R&H in the game because of the absence of this option, and I don't notice a big decrease in probability of success, although that may have to do with using the option in counts where the defense doesn't normally expect the runner to go (1-2, 2-2 especially).

Quote:

Hit and run isn't a steal play at all, a steal can only result from a botched hit and run. Instead, the batter tries to make contact no matter what, usually because the runner is slow and you want to send him to avoid a double play.

Fair point.

Radsmats · 03-31-2018, 04:02 PM

Ooh, ooh! Then I want a Wade Boggs button. IIRC Boggs* only allowed certain teammates to try to steal and on certain counts because they disrupted his batting rhythm too much. That wouldn't be too much detail to program, right?
*May have been Rod Carew or Tony Gwynn. One of the great modern contact hitters. Tried and failed to find confirmation online and I can't remember where I first read this.

Chico Guilbault · 03-31-2018, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radsmats

Ooh, ooh! Then I want a Wade Boggs button. IIRC Boggs* only allowed certain teammates to try to steal and on certain counts because they disrupted his batting rhythm too much. That wouldn't be too much detail to program, right?
*May have been Rod Carew or Tony Gwynn. One of the great modern contact hitters. Tried and failed to find confirmation online and I can't remember where I first read this.

It may not be true, but this reeks of Boggs. In my youth, I was as obsessed with Wade Boggs as Wade Boggs was obsessed with chicken. Then Margo Adams happened and I soured on the idolatry. Does that make him an idolterer?

StratMan · 04-01-2018, 08:26 PM

Agree completely with this and have wanted this for several versions. Would also be great for one-pitch players where the AB stays 1 pitch unless the steal attempt occurs first.

NoOne · 04-02-2018, 01:59 AM

isn't this run and hit? well, maybe not quite..

the guy will try to steal if he can and batter has choice to swing or not.

when "stealing" the guy will take the pitch each time so as not to screw up the called steal attempt.

Radsmats · 04-02-2018, 12:56 PM

I was actually joking when I suggested I want a Wade Boggs button. Well, I DO want one but understand that level of micromanagement might not get programmed in the next version (or 50 or 100 versions) of OOTP. Not top of the wish list.

I am trying to sort out which of hit & run, run & hit, force steal, etc. works best to make the 70/80 speed guy run and the 65/70 contact hitter try to get the bat on it, preferably something to the first base side on the ground. I don't care how bad a jump Cesar Cedeno gets; when I need a run and the infield is playing in I want him to run when I give the signal and I want the batter to swing at anything that's not a pitchout.

I may have rage quit once or twice over the years when neither of those things happen and then I hit into a double play on the 0-2 count.

StratMan · 04-03-2018, 12:32 PM

The biggest problem with the current system is that you can't give the green light to a baserunner to steal IF they get the jump once a batter has two strikes.

You are forced to select Run & Hit (baserunner must go with jump or not) so the batter doesn't strike out looking.

Syd Thrift · 04-03-2018, 01:37 PM

Yeah, I'd like to see a general "green light" button added. A guy like Rickey Henderson in his prime would have this in effect on nearly every pitch when he was on first base. He'd try to get a lead and then regardless of what the batter was doing he'd take a break if he got a good one. I think that if anything he took the onus off the hitter to either lay off a pitch he was running on or make sure he hit it into the ground because he'd do it so damn often.

timmermac · 04-03-2018, 01:46 PM

I tend to use Force Send when I have a basestealer on first, and it works reasonably well.

03-31-2018, 01:05 PM	#1
Elendil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the dynasty forum Posts: 2,318	"Swing away and attempt to achieve a good lead" One of my little peeves about OOTP 18 is the absence of a "swing away and attempt to achieve a good lead" option. If you want to try to steal, either you have to take the pitch, or you have to force-send the runner (run & hit, hit & run). I didn't see this in the feature list for 19, but just thought I'd ask. Any plans to add this option? __________________ Heaven is kicking back with a double Talisker and a churchwarden stuffed with latakia.

03-31-2018, 03:07 PM	#3
Number4 Major Leagues Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 460	IRL, both things are in action. Sometimes the batter does take, sometimes not, sometimes he even intentionally swings and misses to distract the catcher. "Steal second" would be the almost cleanest steal, giving the runner a very good opportunity to steal, at the cost of the batter intentionally taking and therefore often taking a strike, even from a fat pitch down the middle he could mash. The best stealing rate would be a "Steal, batter distracts" - this would always lead to a strike, but might mess with the catcher (not in game) Run and Hit is giving the batter full reign about what he swings at and not, however the runner has to run, which lowers his odds. What is asked for is: Batter does swing when he wants, runner does run when he wants. Which would be a balance between those extremes. (not in game) Hit and run isn't a steal play at all, a steal can only result from a botched hit and run. Instead, the batter tries to make contact no matter what, usually because the runner is slow and you want to send him to avoid a double play. __________________ "Odor is now 2 for 5 today" (Commentator, after Rougned Odor, up to then 1 for 4, punched Jose Bautista square in the face.)

04-02-2018, 01:59 AM	#8
NoOne Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 7,167	isn't this run and hit? well, maybe not quite.. the guy will try to steal if he can and batter has choice to swing or not. when "stealing" the guy will take the pitch each time so as not to screw up the called steal attempt. Last edited by NoOne; 04-02-2018 at 02:02 AM.

04-03-2018, 01:46 PM	#12
timmermac Major Leagues Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 449	I tend to use Force Send when I have a basestealer on first, and it works reasonably well. __________________ Running with the 1950 Braves. Crush the baseball. Drive it before you. And hear the lamentation of the opponent's women. I am king of the diamond! Let there be a grand clubhouse feast! Bring me the finest meats and cheeses in all the land!

03-31-2018, 01:50 PM	#2
Silfir Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 138	You know, this is a really interesting topic. As a complete baseball foreigner (my background is in German-made soccer management games like Anstoss) I never questioned that the hitter would always just take the pitch when I wanted a base stolen. I always assumed that there was a reason they had to. My best guess is that if your hitter is asked to "swing away", i.e. swing at good pitches and stay off the bad ones and just in general take the at bat in whatever way he deems ideal, it's not safe for the baserunner to try to run for the next base, because he does not know what his batter is going to do at any given moment. "Steal Base", "Hit&Run" and "Run&Hit" all have that one thing in common: The runner knows what the batter is going to do, or try to do at any rate. I'd be very grateful indeed for anyone with baseball knowledge to shed light on the issue for me.

03-31-2018, 04:02 PM	#5
Radsmats Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wellville Posts: 183	Ooh, ooh! Then I want a Wade Boggs button. IIRC Boggs* only allowed certain teammates to try to steal and on certain counts because they disrupted his batting rhythm too much. That wouldn't be too much detail to program, right? *May have been Rod Carew or Tony Gwynn. One of the great modern contact hitters. Tried and failed to find confirmation online and I can't remember where I first read this.

04-01-2018, 08:26 PM	#7
StratMan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 61	Agree completely with this and have wanted this for several versions. Would also be great for one-pitch players where the AB stays 1 pitch unless the steal attempt occurs first.

04-02-2018, 12:56 PM	#9
Radsmats Minors (Double A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wellville Posts: 183	I was actually joking when I suggested I want a Wade Boggs button. Well, I DO want one but understand that level of micromanagement might not get programmed in the next version (or 50 or 100 versions) of OOTP. Not top of the wish list. I am trying to sort out which of hit & run, run & hit, force steal, etc. works best to make the 70/80 speed guy run and the 65/70 contact hitter try to get the bat on it, preferably something to the first base side on the ground. I don't care how bad a jump Cesar Cedeno gets; when I need a run and the infield is playing in I want him to run when I give the signal and I want the batter to swing at anything that's not a pitchout. I may have rage quit once or twice over the years when neither of those things happen and then I hit into a double play on the 0-2 count.

04-03-2018, 12:32 PM	#10
StratMan Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 61	The biggest problem with the current system is that you can't give the green light to a baserunner to steal IF they get the jump once a batter has two strikes. You are forced to select Run & Hit (baserunner must go with jump or not) so the batter doesn't strike out looking.