A request to the developers: Add Females

[Pirates]

I disagree that's it's all fictional.

I started going to baseball games in 1971. I have watched thousands of games on tv.

In person, I have seen play: Roberto Clemente, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Tom Seaver, Nolan Ryan, Pete Rose, Mike Schmidt, The Big Red Machine, The Pirate's lumber company, etc...

So for me, when I go back and play these players, I get to see these players playing all over again.

I have just too much baseball experience, to be fooled into believing fictional players are as real as Actual Real players.

[kingcharlesxii]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

This is one of those weird ideas that would require an extreme amount of resources and effort, and it would only ever be used by a tiny, militant fraction of users. Fictional players are a minority, and the percentage of even the fictional players who would ever play a female league is a tiny, tiny minority. It just doesn't make any economic sense; the resources and effort required would be far better spent making the entire game better for all users.

I don't know that you can necessarily say that. Making the text engine more flexible (ie removing instances of hard-coding) might also make improving the game in other areas easier. I wouldn't think about it until you're ready to do a general text engine revamp though. I'd think that isn't that far off.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

This is one of those weird ideas that would require an extreme amount of resources and effort, and it would only ever be used by a tiny, militant fraction of users. Fictional players are a minority, and the percentage of even the fictional players who would ever play a female league is a tiny, tiny minority. It just doesn't make any economic sense; the resources and effort required would be far better spent making the entire game better for all users.

Originally Posted by Charley575

I dare say the most militant person on these boards seems to be you against fictional players, honey badger.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'm not militant against fictional players per se; I'm just very, very tired of the fictional tail trying to wag the OOTP dog.

I can't disagree with Wolf's initial assessment above, but I'll add that the rationale for changes and additions based on that criteria reaches much farther than the fictional. It embodies nearly every decision that involves resources, cost/benefit, and audience appeal, with the single exception being if Markus likes it, he does, and it probably gets in.

Point being, I'm exclusively fictional, but I take no offense at comments of this nature by Wolf. I don't think that's his aim, as clarified in this last post above. Generally, he approaches the game systemically; often offering a management-based or value-oriented critique of ideas, which are often misunderstood as personal judgments- maybe sometimes they are -instead of a response to the idea.

As to the tail wagging, the real intention of my response, it isn't just a fictional concept. When considering factors that, rightly, only .01% of a user base will deem significant or utilize, then it's a given it's a, as they say in the ivory tower, non-issue. But everything from dwarves, females, and one-armed Dark Elves, to minor league financial structures, stadium HVAC overhead or parking capacities, and more play into resource assignment and the embracing of any one feature request. FWIW

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by endgame

Point being, I'm exclusively fictional, but I take no offense at comments of this nature by Wolf. I don't think that's his aim, as clarified in this last post above. Generally, he approaches the game systemically; often offering a management-based or value-oriented critique of ideas

That's exactly what I am trained and paid to do. People hire me to design systems/projects, to build and manage systems/projects, and to efficiently create value. You get it. Thank you.

[Mr. Marlin]

Once you proceed past 2016 your draft is entirely fictional. By 2019 some of those guys will be in your major leagues. By 2021 many of them will be and they will start forcing out real players. All games become fictional if you play them long enough... and stay ahead of the next version of OOTP.

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

This guy is trolling

I don't care if he is or not, It makes sense to at least enable the option. The Facegen can create female models, and it doesn't need to be enabled by default, it can be an option.

And it wouldn't be inventing anything.



Ya know what? If it were an option I think I would immediately make a women's league. I like girls.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Hammercraft

I don't care if he is or not, It makes sense to at least enable the option. The Facegen can create female models, and it doesn't need to be enabled by default, it can be an option.

And it wouldn't be inventing anything.



Ya know what? If it were an option I think I would immediately make a women's league. I like girls.

I only have the AAGPBL for 1 seasons as i found it too difficult to not have teams from the other 2 leagues not sign women FA. But it does look cool though.

[injury log]

Wolf is right that almost no current users would use the option (some would, I probably would try it, but very few would). But kq's post is worth reading: 30% of MLB fans are women, and ~0.1% of OOTP players are women. I think if you add female players to OOTP, it's with the idea that we might attract new people to the game, and not so much with the idea that the feature is for current users.

[The Wolf]

I'm sorry, but the idea of attracting women MLB fans to a PC baseball simulation by adding women characters to it is so completely beyond the absurd to be all the way to the ridiculous. Do you know any of these women? I know a lot of them, and none of them are EVER going to be playing PC computer games.

This is something that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people would ever be interested. Let it go.

[Pirates]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'm sorry, but the idea of attracting women MLB fans to a PC baseball simulation by adding women characters to it is so completely beyond the absurd to be all the way to the ridiculous. Do you know any of these women? I know a lot of them, and none of them are EVER going to be playing PC computer games.

This is something that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people would ever be interested. Let it go.

Oh my God a person of reason. Thank you for the quote. I have never had a girlfriend who really wants to sit and play computer sports games.
I'm old school, girls are girls and boys are boys. Why this world feels such a strong need to make everyone a Unisex person is beyond me.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I
This is something that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people would ever be interested. Let it go.

That only a "tiny, tiny fraction of people" would be interested is no argument at all. That's how OOTP has always survived, on a "tiny, tiny fraction" of fans who might be interested in a hardcore baseball management sim. If we ignored what a tiny fraction of fans want, OOTP would never have been made to begin with.

Your female friends might not be in interested in playing OOTP. Mine aren't either. Nor are any of my male friends. But you cannot say that no women at all are interested, because we know some are - there have been women on this forum. Whether it makes sense to add female players to the game is a simple business decision. If it would take 10 hours of work and would add 100 sales, then it obviously makes a lot of sense. If it would take 100 hours of work and would add 10 sales, it doesn't make sense. If you don't know how many sales it would add or how much work it would take, your opinion isn't worth anything.

[Hadehariast]

Originally Posted by injury log

That only a "tiny, tiny fraction of people" would be interested is no argument at all. That's how OOTP has always survived, on a "tiny, tiny fraction" of fans who might be interested in a hardcore baseball management sim. If we ignored what a tiny fraction of fans want, OOTP would never have been made to begin with.

Your female friends might not be in interested in playing OOTP. Mine aren't either. Nor are any of my male friends. But you cannot say that no women at all are interested, because we know some are - there have been women on this forum. Whether it makes sense to add female players to the game is a simple business decision. If it would take 10 hours of work and would add 100 sales, then it obviously makes a lot of sense. If it would take 100 hours of work and would add 10 sales, it doesn't make sense. If you don't know how many sales it would add or how much work it would take, your opinion isn't worth anything.

Given that OOTP is offered on Steam as well as through the OOTPD website, there is a much broader audience who are accessible than just the people on this forum, who are not necessarily representative of the overall playerbase. This forum is probably hyper-representative of the 'middle-age white male' demographic, compared to the demographic found on Steam, which is much broader.

OOTP has the same demographic problem that MLB does: middle-age men become old men, and old men become dead men. If you don't make an effort to reach out to a wider audience, your product dies too.

An effort should be made to include women in the game. Beyond the potentially increased appeal for women gamers (and younger male gamers who are more inclined to appreciate a little bit of equality), the ability to generate positive press coverage on various gaming websites for being gender-inclusive shouldn't be discounted as not 'value-added'.

[Hammercraft]

I'm not sure why we have the ability to make a fictional collegiate-level baseball league in Cyprus, it is clearly something that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people would ever be interested in.

The very best thing about this game is something that has nothing to do with baseball at all. It harnesses the imagination, and reinforces the creative spirit. It does this within the contextual framework of baseball, but there are very few ways the game tells us "no". The rest of the world already does that to us, let's keep our options open here.

[Painmantle]

Originally Posted by injury log

That only a "tiny, tiny fraction of people" would be interested is no argument at all. That's how OOTP has always survived, on a "tiny, tiny fraction" of fans who might be interested in a hardcore baseball management sim. If we ignored what a tiny fraction of fans want, OOTP would never have been made to begin with.

Your female friends might not be in interested in playing OOTP. Mine aren't either. Nor are any of my male friends. But you cannot say that no women at all are interested, because we know some are - there have been women on this forum. Whether it makes sense to add female players to the game is a simple business decision. If it would take 10 hours of work and would add 100 sales, then it obviously makes a lot of sense. If it would take 100 hours of work and would add 10 sales, it doesn't make sense. If you don't know how many sales it would add or how much work it would take, your opinion isn't worth anything.

My guess is if Markus thought it would be a financially viable option, that would increase sales. It would have already be implemented by now. Features like that aren't something that would be totally dismissed unless they didn't feel like it would have positive risk/reward ratio. And in my opinion, OOTP resources would be better spent elsewhere

[Hammercraft]

Originally Posted by Painmantle

My guess is if Markus thought it would be a financially viable option, that would increase sales. It would have already be implemented by now. Features like that aren't something that would be totally dismissed unless they didn't feel like it would have positive risk/reward ratio. And in my opinion, OOTP resources would be better spent elsewhere

I agree. They probably have a very long list of things they can do or would like to do, and this is #478 or so. But I have seen what happens when a company goes from making games for game players to making games only for profit (Blizzard) and it's a sad journey. Sometimes I bet Chris Metzen wishes he'd never made World of Warcraft so he could have a loyal, creative, positive & energetic fanbase again.. then he probably sails out on his gold-plated yacht and feels better.

This isn't anything remotely important. Although I think it would be very positive and I would really enjoy it, there are many other things on that to-do list that would have a bigger impact.

[prisonerno6]

I know I am late to the conversation, but since I am playing a current 1972 Alternate Reality MLB, it would be cool if New York Mets owner Joan Whitney Payson could look closer to this

Instead of currently looking like this

Attachment 445124

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Charley575

You know, there's really no reason why women cannot play professional baseball. The problem is they are discouraged from doing so. High school, college, they force them into softball. Softball is not a serious game. It's a game for children, and out of shape 45 year olds. There's no reason why there should not be girls baseball teams in high school and college. If there were, I think we would be seeing a lot more women in professional baseball. Baseball is not a game that you have to be 6 foot five and 280 pounds to play. It is a game of quickness, agility, coordination, and intelligence. Just my

You really need to branch out in this world and see what fastpitch softball is all about. Help yourself overcome some of your ignorance.

[canadiancreed]

Don't know if you're arguing that women don't play computer games (because they do....a lot), but I doubt this feature would be the silver bullet for an explosion of sales. Or many sales really.

Although I'll take Dotty Henson on my team anyday. A catcher that can both field and hit? Yes please.

[PSUColonel]

This thread really is an embarrassment

[The Game]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I'm sorry, but the idea of attracting women MLB fans to a PC baseball simulation by adding women characters to it is so completely beyond the absurd to be all the way to the ridiculous. Do you know any of these women? I know a lot of them, and none of them are EVER going to be playing PC computer games.

This is something that only a tiny, tiny fraction of people would ever be interested. Let it go.

Even as one who would use the feature, I agree 100% with Wolf. Besides I would rather have Ewok facegens 1st.