Pitch selection

[x McLovin x]

Something I’ve really wanted included in OOTP is the inclusion of pitch selection as a variable the user can have control over. At least the % number of pitches thrown for each pitch type. For example, if a pitcher has 3 pitches he usually throws equally, but one of the pitches is an 80 slider and the other 2 pitches are 50s, I’d love to be able to force the pitcher to throw more sliders. Are there any future plans for anything like this?

[Argonaut]

I'm not convinced that the pitch types even do anything aside from their affect on Stuff. Someone would have to present non-anecdotal evidence to prove otherwise.

[Sharkn20]

Pitch type during games are just cosmetics, stuff / movement / control is what really counts.

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[Mr. Marlin]

I used to want this but it occurs to me it isn't exactly realistic. Managers don't tell pitchers what to throw on any given count.

And it is just window dressing anyway.

What I would LOVE to see is strategy for each hitter. Right now we have Pitch and Pitch Around and it mostly does the job. I would like to see that made a little more granular and something that can be set up as a pre-game strategy. For example tell your pitchers to only throw offspeed inside to Aaron Judge on a 0-1 count. Then have three buttons in game: Pitch, Pitch Around, Pitch to Strategy

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Mr. Marlin

I used to want this but it occurs to me it isn't exactly realistic. Managers don't tell pitchers what to throw on any given count.

And it is just window dressing anyway.

What I would LOVE to see is strategy for each hitter. Right now we have Pitch and Pitch Around and it mostly does the job. I would like to see that made a little more granular and something that can be set up as a pre-game strategy. For example tell your pitchers to only throw offspeed inside to Aaron Judge on a 0-1 count. Then have three buttons in game: Pitch, Pitch Around, Pitch to Strategy

I think the issue with this is that pitch location is also simply cosmetic within the game.

[Curve Ball Dave]

OOTP is a text based management sim. It doesn't pretend to be an arcade game of any kind. Pitch type and location, as far as outcomes in the game are concerned, are cosmetic.

[Mr. Marlin]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I think the issue with this is that pitch location is also simply cosmetic within the game.

You are correct. Pitching outcomes in OOTP is the rock-paper-scissors matchup of pitchers skills and hitters skills with splash of random on top. What I described would be something new. An idea for some future version.

[Tram2Whitaker]

Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave

OOTP is a text based management sim. It doesn't pretend to be an arcade game of any kind. Pitch type and location, as far as outcomes in the game are concerned, are cosmetic.

So, what you're saying is, if I have a pitcher that has 75 stuff, 60 control, and 50 movement, that 20 changeup doesn't affect gameplay?

[Sharkn20]

Originally Posted by Tram2Whitaker

So, what you're saying is, if I have a pitcher that has 75 stuff, 60 control, and 50 movement, that 20 changeup doesn't affect gameplay?

That's right

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[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Tram2Whitaker

So, what you're saying is, if I have a pitcher that has 75 stuff, 60 control, and 50 movement, that 20 changeup doesn't affect gameplay?

That 20 change-up could well affect Stuff/Control/Movement, though.

[Reed]

Depends on how often he threw that 20 changeup IRL. If seldom then it did not adversely affect his stats. If he threw it a lot then it will affect his stats/ratings a lot.
I have no idea how OOTP could do this for historical players. I would think you would have to break it down for every pitcher how likely are they to throw a certain pitch, on every pitch count, and how the batter will perform against every type of pitch on every pitch count.

[x McLovin x]

Originally Posted by RonCo

That 20 change-up could well affect Stuff/Control/Movement, though.

I find this concept hard to understand. Say I have a pitcher whose stuff has diminished from a 70 to a 55. There has to be a corresponding decrease in the pitch values?

Also, lets say there are 2 players (player A and player B). Player A throws 3 pitches, each with a 60 value. Player B throws 4 pitches, 3 of which have a 60 value and the 4th has a 20 value. All things being equal, you're suggesting that Player B should have a lower "Stuff" rating?

[RonCo]

As far as I know, additional pitches will never lower Stuff/Movement/Control. But that 20 change up will be added into the mix to result in, for example, slightly better "stuff" than he would have had without it. As a rule, anyway.

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Reed

Depends on how often he threw that 20 changeup IRL. If seldom then it did not adversely affect his stats. If he threw it a lot then it will affect his stats/ratings a lot.
I have no idea how OOTP could do this for historical players. I would think you would have to break it down for every pitcher how likely are they to throw a certain pitch, on every pitch count, and how the batter will perform against every type of pitch on every pitch count.

It is my opinion that the need to support historical simming is currently the primary driver for the model being what the model is.

[SR000]

I am not sure about this. Relievers do fine when they only have two good pitches. That third weak one doesn't seem to drag them down as much. I also used to watch pitch-by-pitch action and struggling rookies would clearly look bad (i.e., swinging at pitches way outside the strike zone and it was telling cause they were the ones that rarely made it) and good pitchers tend to miss the strike zone by smaller amounts.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by SR000

I am not sure about this. Relievers do fine when they only have two good pitches. That third weak one doesn't seem to drag them down as much. I also used to watch pitch-by-pitch action and struggling rookies would clearly look bad (i.e., swinging at pitches way outside the strike zone and it was telling cause they were the ones that rarely made it) and good pitchers tend to miss the strike zone by smaller amounts.

It's long been said by developers that relievers only use their two best pitches. So a reliever with a third pitch rated as a 20 won't be hindered by that unless he's converted to a starter. And as for pitch location, what you're seeing is because the game is built to generate the cosmetics of pitch selection and location AFTER the game engine has determined the outcome.

[NoOne]

i was proven wrong about this in the past, i just forget exactly how....

overall stuff is what matters. Other factors can be impacted by a pitch, like knuckleballs. those let you throw more pitches per stamina than others. you can have a very low babip against compared to any other equally rated pitch. I think the screwball has some oddities at very high ratings too? low babip? somethign, i forget exactly what i observed with one. you don't see it often at a high rating, if at all. even less than a KB, i think.

this game shows more resolution that what exists in the engine. this is just one example. the PA is basically worked out the moment the step up. your choices aren't going to affect success/fail rate, but do impact what plays out, if you get lucky with that same % all the way though. e.g. you 'roll' a seed so 'low' that results in a gauranteed out of some sort... you can replay that PA 100x and the only time you get anything other than an out will be an error. an error is clearly a different roll of the dice, as it should be, but so should every single pitch... since pitches are lumped together, that resolution is impossible to exist in any proper form.

[RonCo]

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...88&postcount=6

[Argonaut]

Originally Posted by RonCo

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...88&postcount=6

Thanks for running this data, much appreciated.

I'm also not convinced that a knuckleball or whatever is any different than any other pitch in the OOTP engine. If you're feeling up to it that might be something to test. Otherwise I'll get around to it someday.