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Old 02-27-2015, 11:11 AM   #1
Déjà Bru
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How would you handle the shift?

I read this article in Newsday yesterday and I have been thinking about it. We all know that defensive shifts in baseball are more common than ever (to the point that some people are talking about banning them).

The usual response is to say "the batter should adjust and go the other way." That's what I believed until I read this:
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Mark Teixeira’s strategy this season for dealing with the shift that has beguiled him and plenty of others in recent years is simple. “Hit more home runs, hit more doubles and walk more,” Teixeira said yesterday after reporting to Yankees camp. In other words, the switch-hitting first baseman said, there will be no radical changes in his approach when he’s faced with the shift batting lefthanded. “We’ve talked about it ad nauseam,” he said. “Every time I try to slap the ball the other way, it just doesn’t go well for anybody. And that’s what the other team wants. They want to take the middle-of-the-order power hitter and turn him into a slap hitter. So if I can hit more home runs, more doubles, walk more, that takes care of the shift.”
That actually makes sense to me. Maybe that's why the shift has been working so well with guys who have been swinging the bat the same way for 20 years trying to change their approach and usually failing. Maybe the answer is simply to hit the ball harder rather than trying to hit it "where they ain't."
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:36 AM   #2
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Isn't that what Tex is paid to do anyways, hit dingers and doubles? I don't see his new "strategy" being very effective for him.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:42 AM   #3
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Ted Williams got shifted all the time and never changed his approach. He continued to try to pull the ball against it. There's a certain point to where if you're doing what you do well, there's not much the defense can do to stop it. They could put all 7 guys on one side of the field but if you're hitting nothing but line drives, there's still very little ground on the field they can cover relative to the total real estate.

How would *I* handle it? Easy? I'd strike out all the time because I'm not an MLB-caliber hitter (or even a minor league caliber hitter).
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:56 AM   #4
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I will take the other side of the argument. The #1 objective for a hitter in most situations is to not make an out. If the defense loads up the right side you can get a hit more easily going the other way. Tex is not going to succeed often enough to make the "I don't care strategy" work. There was only one Ted Williams and he's dead and frozen. If they shift on me I get on base and put the pitcher in the stretch position for the number 5 or number 6 guy in the order.
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Old 02-27-2015, 12:54 PM   #5
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The issue there though is that if you aren't any good at hitting the other way, all you're going to produce if you try to do that are weak pop-ups and easy grounders that can be fielded by the one guy on that side of the infield. This is exacerbated if the pitcher is aware of this weakness and throws you a lot of inside stuff.

You can try and lay down a bunt, but I'm going to guess that Tex isn't the world's greatest bunter either.

I think the best long-term answer is to run the shift throughout the minor leagues as well as the majors and eliminate guys who can't hit through it early on. As a result, you're going to end up with fewer dead-pull power hitters and more Ichiro/Rod Carew "go with the pitch" types who lack a lot of HR power but who can spray the ball all over the place. Personally, I don't see this as an entirely bad thing. Maybe it'll even have an effect on strikeouts...
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Old 02-27-2015, 01:36 PM   #6
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It's not polite to handle your shift in public. That's what the restroom is for.
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:20 PM   #7
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Syd, if there's someone on my team who can't hit the other way he better be able to hit 25 home runs or I'm moving out of the organization. I think your point about development in the minors with a shift will play a role in the future. that is unless the new commissioner favors banning the shift , which IMO would be a big mistake. Having said that, I would point out that in most defensive shift alignments today the loan infielder on the opposite side of the field is usually playing deep so even a weak grounder could get you to first base. My overall philosophy is more like what you would see in football where a passing team still needs to run the ball sometimes to keep the defense honest.
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Old 02-27-2015, 05:05 PM   #8
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Kyle Seager got quite a few hits last year by bunting opposite the shift. But he normally would take the "don't change anything" approach so they wouldn't know when to expect it. But not a lot of power/pull hitters have enough speed to use this approach.

That said, his doubles went down a little bit. Maybe there's a correlation.
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Old 02-27-2015, 05:23 PM   #9
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When Carlos Pena was playing for the Rays, he had this "I don't care" attitude. Even though he only hit .196, he still had 30 HR and 130 RBI, so he said he was "... doing his job", but I remember so many rallies just dying because they couldn't keep the inning going.
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Old 02-27-2015, 05:35 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Tram2Whitaker View Post
When Carlos Pena was playing for the Rays, he had this "I don't care" attitude. Even though he only hit .196, he still had 30 HR and 130 RBI, so he said he was "... doing his job", but I remember so many rallies just dying because they couldn't keep the inning going.
Carlos Pena's years with Tampa Bay was his most productive years. Not sure what more do you want to ask from him. Getting worse after age 30 is also pretty normal aging curve.
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Old 02-27-2015, 08:15 PM   #11
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We know where swoboda stands on this but are any of you other guys in favor of banning the shift?
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Old 02-27-2015, 10:32 PM   #12
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Sure, it's an amazingly stupid idea coming from a new commissioner who increasingly sounds... amazingly stupid.
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Old 02-27-2015, 11:27 PM   #13
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"Going the other way" against the shift is a lot harder than people think for the guys who warrant the shift in the first place. One of the things that teams are doing to a lefty with the shift on is pitching to him inner-half in; they want him to pull the ball into the shift. Inside-outting that pitch is really hard to do for a pull hitter. If the guy had the ability to do that, he probably wouldn't be the type of guy you'd have a shift on for in the first place. If the guy gets a pitch he can take the other way, the pitcher probably messed up.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:11 AM   #14
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There is no reason to ban the shift.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:39 AM   #15
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I'd be extremely disappointed if baseball banned the shift. I can best sum up my feelings by saying that players who can longer put decent numbers due to the shift should either adapt or be replaced by players who can put up numbers regardless of shifts.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:15 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
We know where swoboda stands on this but are any of you other guys in favor of banning the shift?
No, because if batters are too stupid to lay one down, or incapable of learning (which is dumb too, since that is a mechanical action that can be competently taught and learned), then they can pop out to the extra RF and go sit down.

What amazes me about the whole thing is: we're not talking about Ted Williams, or 2001-2004 Barry Bonds. As you all have noted, those guys are unstoppable anyway, so the marginal chance to get them out on bloopers may be worth taking.

Tex hit .216/.313/.398 last year. Teams are shifting against all sorts of lame LH batters, and those guys need to start bunting or choking up or whatever to force opponents out of the shift.
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Old 02-28-2015, 01:54 PM   #17
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Yes, sometimes I ask questions like that just to provoke a response but I am definitely on the side of not banning the shift. That would change the game in such a way as to change its character.

But heed the warning: Other games keep tampering with their rules and formats to aid scoring or boost fan interest. Like football moving the goal posts back 10 yards or moving the kickoff from the 30 to the 35 (and maybe to the 40 to avoid injuries - they want more touchbacks?).

Don't forget baseball has also done such things: the DH, lowering the pitching mound, etc. Perhaps someday they will make the basepaths 85 feet to get more scoring into the game. That would be a hell of a change, wouldn't it?

This new commissioner that some of you don't like . . . perhaps he should study up on the history and tradition of baseball before he mouths off in the first days of a new job.

As for dealing with the shift, I agree with those of you who say, "Deal with it." If that means hitting the ball the other way, then you had better do it. If you think, Tex, that hitting the ball harder they way you always have is the answer, then you had better produce.

Just better not overswing, Tex, because your K's are going to go up.
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Old 03-15-2015, 10:34 AM   #18
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Call me crazy, but I was right-handed and I still am and if the other team's got 7 guys lined up on the left side, well, guess what? I'm going to hit it the other way to right-field. I don't care if I could hit 40 homers a year either. That's called playing the game the right way. When the going gets tough, the going get tough.
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Old 03-15-2015, 04:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Splitter24 View Post
"Going the other way" against the shift is a lot harder than people think for the guys who warrant the shift in the first place. One of the things that teams are doing to a lefty with the shift on is pitching to him inner-half in; they want him to pull the ball into the shift. Inside-outting that pitch is really hard to do for a pull hitter. If the guy had the ability to do that, he probably wouldn't be the type of guy you'd have a shift on for in the first place. If the guy gets a pitch he can take the other way, the pitcher probably messed up.
This.

It's easy to say "duh, just go the other way." It's much harder to do it, especially when it's not what you've done your whole career, especially against major-league pitching designed to prevent you from doing it.


It's a bit like watching a 240-lb fullback try to run over a linebacker and wondering why he didn't juke or outrun the defender instead. If juking and/or outrunning was major part of his game, he'd be a 220-lb tailback.

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Old 03-15-2015, 04:56 PM   #20
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When Carlos Pena was playing for the Rays, he had this "I don't care" attitude. Even though he only hit .196, he still had 30 HR and 130 RBI, so he said he was "... doing his job", but I remember so many rallies just dying because they couldn't keep the inning going.
Disagree.

The Rays offense has sorely missed his extremely high slugging %. I didn't care about his average. He drove in runs with power. That's what we needed from the 4 hitter.

Anyway, back to the point, it depends on the situation. With 2 outs and nobody on go ahead and swing away. With no outs and nobody on go ahead and slap the other way.
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