Managers Still Have No Respect For Themselves

korme · 10-02-2014, 09:02 PM

How many years in now and this still happens?

pgjocki · 10-02-2014, 11:23 PM

Maybe he loves the game but wanted less stress

korme · 10-03-2014, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgjocki

Maybe he loves the game but wanted less stress

Yeah, maybe they all do. Great thought.

stl jason · 10-03-2014, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgjocki

Maybe he loves the game but wanted less stress

or wanted a new challenge to rebuild a team

tejdog1 · 10-03-2014, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stl jason

or wanted a new challenge to rebuild a team

As the bench coach?

stl jason · 10-03-2014, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

As the bench coach?

sure... he still can have input in the layout of the team (you can click 'ask bench coach for lineups/etc'). And from the looks of those records, the Rhubarbs and Gryphons need some help

Honorable_Pawn · 10-03-2014, 06:07 PM

Let's not make excuses for OOTP. It's better to be honest so that we can continue to improve the game. This needs fixed.

RchW · 10-03-2014, 06:22 PM

What? That life isn't fair?

endgame · 10-03-2014, 06:50 PM

Who replaced him with the Fighting Scots?

korme · 10-04-2014, 10:04 PM

It's not about who replaced him, I get it, coaches leave on top all the time. But it's like if Bruce Bochy left the Giants, and then became the bench coach for the Indians. He would never do that. Certain managers hit a prestige status where they wouldn't take any job but as the manager, the guy. And yes, maybe once in a blue moon it could happen. But this is literally every manager in OOTP.

ra7c7er · 10-04-2014, 11:09 PM

I think the issue with the game is that their is to many FA managers and often younger cheaper managers have the same coaching levels as the older more expensive guys (just like players). So when the AI decides to let a manager go the AI has a reason for it. Just like when a player trades or lets a player go. It's the same thing.

Outside of that if their aren't enough coaching jobs then obviously that guy is going to take whatever job is available the game doesn't fire coaches mid contract just because a better coach is available. So because he was available as a manager and he is a good one he took a job with a lesser team. Now maybe the game should have given him the most high profile job with the best team but eh that doesn't always happen in RL either.

I don't find any problem with the way the game treats good managers. I find flaws in the entire personnel system. To many FA personnel to start, to much one and done (get a demanding owner and he turns over the GM and coach nearly every year sometimes even when teams make the playoffs), lack of coach progression in leagues with minors, etc.

The way I do FA personnel is I delete everyone except the top 5 overall in each category (counting GM, manager, and bench coach as the same) at the start of the first season. That way instead of nearly 50 or more "coaches" you only have between 20-25 with 10 of those specialized to trainers and scouts. It seems to eliminate a lot of the strange turnover. My usual "world" has nearly 50 teams if I were playing a larger or small "world" I would adjust the number of FA personnel to reflect that.

Carlton · 10-29-2014, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ra7c7er

The way I do FA personnel is I delete everyone except the top 5 overall in each category (counting GM, manager, and bench coach as the same) at the start of the first season. That way instead of nearly 50 or more "coaches" you only have between 20-25 with 10 of those specialized to trainers and scouts. It seems to eliminate a lot of the strange turnover. My usual "world" has nearly 50 teams if I were playing a larger or small "world" I would adjust the number of FA personnel to reflect that.

OOTP should have a check when it sees a certain amount of available personnel, to stop creating new ones...irritates me to no end when I have 33 available Managers,Hitting Coaches and Pitching coaches and it creates 9 bench coaches. Create trainers instead

and while we are at it...get rid of the bench coach title and use managers who are strong at teaching fielding, high priority Bench coach candidates.

That way when I retire Art Fletcher or Don Zimmer, I can make them weak in pitching and hitting, but great at fielding and Bench coach will be their most likely destination.

ChiefWahoo · 10-31-2014, 07:08 PM

In my opinion, managers need an overhaul. The great ones should be able to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and their impacts on their teams should be more obvious. They should have some sort of personality system along the lines of their players. As of right now, managers feel greatly and unfortunately unattended to. Thanks Korme, for starting this thread!

RchW · 10-31-2014, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefWahoo

In my opinion, managers need an overhaul. The great ones should be able to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and their impacts on their teams should be more obvious. They should have some sort of personality system along the lines of their players. As of right now, managers feel greatly and unfortunately unattended to. Thanks Korme, for starting this thread!

How do you know a manager is great until they have success? Are you suggesting that a manager with a good team courtesy of the GM should get artificially boosted by OOTP because he has a good team? That would destroy realism for me. Maybe a more detailed explanation of what a manager actually does vs what players do would help me understand.

Before such things are put into the game I'd like to see some objective evidence to support it. I don't think, for example, that Ned Yost is the second best manager in real baseball. John Farrell wasn't the best in 2013 and is not likely the worst in 2014.

I get the idea but it has to be more than pixie dust.

Carlton · 11-05-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefWahoo

In my opinion, managers need an overhaul. The great ones should be able to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and their impacts on their teams should be more obvious. They should have some sort of personality system along the lines of their players. As of right now, managers feel greatly and unfortunately unattended to. Thanks Korme, for starting this thread!

OOTP is catered to the current Sabermatician MLB fan. It increases with each version. In modern MLB most "esxperts" state that all good managers are determined by who uses statistical analysis the best.

For most of MLB that wasn't the case, managers were vital to the success of a franchise, they were assistant GMs, Scouting directors, shrinks and disciplinarian plus managed the game using tactics.

I don't see OOTP actually going backwards to appease us historical simmers as we are a small % of the cash flow.

But HOF for all personnel should be done, as well as being able to retire or unretire coaches

RchW · 11-05-2014, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlton

OOTP is catered to the current Sabermatician MLB fan. It increases with each version. In modern MLB most "esxperts" state that all good managers are determined by who uses statistical analysis the best.

I'm not seeing that at all from OOTP. I'm seeing personality and chemistry and storylines and so on. That's what the majority of posts on the boards seem to be about.

Bruce Bochy is almost the universal pick amongst experts as being the best manager in baseball. I don't see him as a "stat head" type, unless Travis Ishikawa has some stats I don't know about. Mike Scioscia Terry Francona are similarly lauded for their tactical sense. I'm sure they all use stats but I'm trying to figure out what managers you see being put up on a pedestal for their use of stats. What experts are you referring to?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlton

For most of MLB that wasn't the case, managers were vital to the success of a franchise, they were assistant GMs, Scouting directors, shrinks and disciplinarian plus managed the game using tactics.

I don't see OOTP actually going backwards to appease us historical simmers as we are a small % of the cash flow.

Not getting this. The AI managers use tactics, not always well, in my OOTP games based on the baseball era the game is played. What specifically would you change? I'm certainly out there stumping for in game issues to be addressed instead of stories so anything you can give me would help.

The personality part of managers is not my thing so I can't offer anything helpful.

Mr. Marlin · 11-07-2014, 10:34 AM

To the OP, in all fairness, Don Zimmer did almost this very thing.

GamerGramp · 11-09-2014, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefWahoo

In my opinion, managers need an overhaul. The great ones should be able to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and their impacts on their teams should be more obvious. They should have some sort of personality system along the lines of their players. As of right now, managers feel greatly and unfortunately unattended to. Thanks Korme, for starting this thread!

Hah! I absolutely agree.

Anyone remember "Sweet Lou" Pinella's amazing rants? Priceless.

dave1927p · 11-09-2014, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Marlin

To the OP, in all fairness, Don Zimmer did almost this very thing.

far and few between. In OOTP it's far too common. Better and more realistic staff development curves is desperately needed.

metsguy234 · 11-19-2014, 01:48 AM

Another nitpicky thing with regards to managers, can we get the game to adequately reflect the following:

1) Right now, if the selected Manager of the Year retires at the end of the year, or leaves the team because his contract is up, the award is given to the new manager instead. This is wrong.

2) Right now, if you replace your manager mid-season with another member of your coaching staff, the new manager's history will make it look like they managed the entire season for your team. This is also wrong.

10-02-2014, 09:02 PM	#1
korme Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: bloodbuzz ohio Posts: 93	Managers Still Have No Respect For Themselves How many years in now and this still happens?

10-02-2014, 11:23 PM	#2
pgjocki All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Maryland - just outside DC Posts: 1,483	Maybe he loves the game but wanted less stress __________________ - - - World Series championships: 1926, 1931, 1934, 1942, 1944, 1946, 1964, 1967, 1982, 2006, 2011

10-03-2014, 06:22 PM	#8
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	What? That life isn't fair? __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

10-03-2014, 06:50 PM	#9
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 16,843	Who replaced him with the Fighting Scots? __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

10-03-2014, 06:07 PM	#7
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	Let's not make excuses for OOTP. It's better to be honest so that we can continue to improve the game. This needs fixed.

10-04-2014, 10:04 PM	#10
korme Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: bloodbuzz ohio Posts: 93	It's not about who replaced him, I get it, coaches leave on top all the time. But it's like if Bruce Bochy left the Giants, and then became the bench coach for the Indians. He would never do that. Certain managers hit a prestige status where they wouldn't take any job but as the manager, the guy. And yes, maybe once in a blue moon it could happen. But this is literally every manager in OOTP.

10-04-2014, 11:09 PM	#11
ra7c7er All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,098	I think the issue with the game is that their is to many FA managers and often younger cheaper managers have the same coaching levels as the older more expensive guys (just like players). So when the AI decides to let a manager go the AI has a reason for it. Just like when a player trades or lets a player go. It's the same thing. Outside of that if their aren't enough coaching jobs then obviously that guy is going to take whatever job is available the game doesn't fire coaches mid contract just because a better coach is available. So because he was available as a manager and he is a good one he took a job with a lesser team. Now maybe the game should have given him the most high profile job with the best team but eh that doesn't always happen in RL either. I don't find any problem with the way the game treats good managers. I find flaws in the entire personnel system. To many FA personnel to start, to much one and done (get a demanding owner and he turns over the GM and coach nearly every year sometimes even when teams make the playoffs), lack of coach progression in leagues with minors, etc. The way I do FA personnel is I delete everyone except the top 5 overall in each category (counting GM, manager, and bench coach as the same) at the start of the first season. That way instead of nearly 50 or more "coaches" you only have between 20-25 with 10 of those specialized to trainers and scouts. It seems to eliminate a lot of the strange turnover. My usual "world" has nearly 50 teams if I were playing a larger or small "world" I would adjust the number of FA personnel to reflect that.

10-31-2014, 07:08 PM	#13
ChiefWahoo Minors (Double A) Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 129	In my opinion, managers need an overhaul. The great ones should be able to be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and their impacts on their teams should be more obvious. They should have some sort of personality system along the lines of their players. As of right now, managers feel greatly and unfortunately unattended to. Thanks Korme, for starting this thread!

11-07-2014, 10:34 AM	#17
Mr. Marlin All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,245	To the OP, in all fairness, Don Zimmer did almost this very thing.

11-19-2014, 01:48 AM	#20
metsguy234 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 298	Another nitpicky thing with regards to managers, can we get the game to adequately reflect the following: 1) Right now, if the selected Manager of the Year retires at the end of the year, or leaves the team because his contract is up, the award is given to the new manager instead. This is wrong. 2) Right now, if you replace your manager mid-season with another member of your coaching staff, the new manager's history will make it look like they managed the entire season for your team. This is also wrong.