world_default.xml

[Caporegime]

Forgive me for reviving such an old thread, but I was wondering whatever became of that web-based editor that Muzamba alluded to. Was it ever released for V.12? Will such an editor be incorporated into V.13?

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Forgive me for reviving such an old thread, but I was wondering whatever became of that web-based editor that Muzamba alluded to. Was it ever released for V.12? Will such an editor be incorporated into V.13?

To my knowledge, the only way to edit the world_default.xml file is with Notepad or some other non-html program. I have heard nothing about a web-based editor being part of version 13 or being released separately.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Muzamba

Admittedly, this is a major drawback to the new xml format. While it is a more logical structure, it makes basic customization much more tedious and awkward.

We are currently using a web-based editor to make changes to the master xml db, which makes the process much simpler. However, it still needs some fine-tuning.

My hope is that once the editor is polished, Markus and Andreas will allow the general public to download a reconfigured version of it that can be used to edit each individual's xml file. Unfortunately, I've had no confirmation of this yet, so don't necessarily count on this happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, it is still very much possible to edit the xml db. I'll explain this process in more detail in the next post.

Joe, I was referring to this. An editor like the one Muzamba is describing here would be invaluable.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by Caporegime

Joe, I was referring to this.

So was I. Like I said, I have heard nothing about a web-based editor being part of version 13 or being released separately.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

So was I. Like I said, I have heard nothing about a web-based editor being part of version 13 or being released separately.

Thanks for the info. That's too bad. I skipped 12, and based on what I've read in this thread, I'm a little worried that I won't be able to customize 13 to the same extent as 11. Nation cloning & other laborious workarounds are fine as a stopgap measure, but eventually it would be nice to have some sort of editor.

[joefromchicago]

Markus has said that there will be changes to the world_default.xml file in version 13, but he hasn't specified what those changes will be. There's reason for optimism. After all, the file can't be made less user-friendly.

[Charlie Hough]

Once again, we have no support for an OOTP world database editor or a reasonable means of working with this file and getting what we want with fictional leagues.

This was a HORRIBLE decision by OOTP Developments to release OOTP12 and OOTP13 with the new XML world database format and NOT provide an editor or a proper means to import fictional worlds or historically accurate settings via CSV.

There should be something done for this immediately. We have people posting on the general forums who are confused and encountering some of the same problems that have been discussed here. Some are new customers. Others are existing customers who skipped OOTP12 and have now discovered to their dismay that the XML approach has ruined customization.

Yes, I know that the file can be edited, and there are tools to help with this. But Notepad++ is simply too cumbersome, and the XML format could not possibly be more annoying or less user friendly for editing ... even with mass find-and-replace operations.

I am not a low level computer user either. I have taught advanced courses in Microsoft Excel and Access, and I've built databases and consulted on all sorts of data projects over the years. In my career, I have worked extensively with data analysis and editing using a variety of software and tools.

But this XML approach is a PAIN IN THE ASS, and it's highly discouraging for anyone with the hope of creating fictional worlds or experimenting more with regions, languages, etc. It's also a PAIN IN THE ASS for incorporating mods into Add-Ons Central and having to use an XML file. The tags are just so clunky.

We live in a world with CMS, HTML editors, and software to make life easier. Why are we messing with code?! Even those who are high level computer users should have brains enough to understand how this DISCOURAGES sales and customer satisfaction.

Sure, it's great that we now have support for regions, and there have been a few other innovations based on the move to the XML file, but overall the negatives overwhelmingly outweigh the positives.

Can we get a commitment to fix this during the patch period for OOTP13, or do we have to wait for yet another version and potentially another huge disappointment?

I hope someone will read this and take this seriously because I've been a pretty loyal supporter over the years. But when I see something that's legitimately a bunch of bull****, I'm going to be blunt and honest about it.

[Ktulu]

It's not that hard, at least not much more than the old csv method was. Like it or not, modding games requires some level of effort and computer knowledge. This isn't for the masses and never was.

The only drawback of going to the xml model is that it's not easy to import a whole bunch of data at once, but there are work arounds. see this post for one

I've successfully created a fictional database (including nations, languages, regions, longitudes, latititudes and everything else) from scratch and it wasn't much more difficult than doing it the old way, and in fact there are several advantages in that it gives you far more control over names and ethnicities.

And by the way, you can now edit nations from within the game itself, so there is support. A csv to xml tool would be handy, but I don't see how a web editor is going to be any more help than what you can already do from within the game.

[albatross11]

Originally Posted by Ktulu

The only drawback of going to the xml model is that it's not easy to import a whole bunch of data at once, but there are work arounds. see this post for one

And by the way, you can now edit nations from within the game itself, so there is support. A csv to xml tool would be handy, but I don't see how a web editor is going to be any more help than what you can already do from within the game.

Therein lies the problem. Also, from what I've read, there are not a lot things you can do with the in-game editor.

[Caporegime]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Once again, we have no support for an OOTP world database editor or a reasonable means of working with this file and getting what we want with fictional leagues.

This was a HORRIBLE decision by OOTP Developments to release OOTP12 and OOTP13 with the new XML world database format and NOT provide an editor or a proper means to import fictional worlds or historically accurate settings via CSV.

There should be something done for this immediately. We have people posting on the general forums who are confused and encountering some of the same problems that have been discussed here. Some are new customers. Others are existing customers who skipped OOTP12 and have now discovered to their dismay that the XML approach has ruined customization.

Yes, I know that the file can be edited, and there are tools to help with this. But Notepad++ is simply too cumbersome, and the XML format could not possibly be more annoying or less user friendly for editing ... even with mass find-and-replace operations.

I am not a low level computer user either. I have taught advanced courses in Microsoft Excel and Access, and I've built databases and consulted on all sorts of data projects over the years. In my career, I have worked extensively with data analysis and editing using a variety of software and tools.

But this XML approach is a PAIN IN THE ASS, and it's highly discouraging for anyone with the hope of creating fictional worlds or experimenting more with regions, languages, etc. It's also a PAIN IN THE ASS for incorporating mods into Add-Ons Central and having to use an XML file. The tags are just so clunky.

We live in a world with CMS, HTML editors, and software to make life easier. Why are we messing with code?! Even those who are high level computer users should have brains enough to understand how this DISCOURAGES sales and customer satisfaction.

Sure, it's great that we now have support for regions, and there have been a few other innovations based on the move to the XML file, but overall the negatives overwhelmingly outweigh the positives.

Can we get a commitment to fix this during the patch period for OOTP13, or do we have to wait for yet another version and potentially another huge disappointment?

I hope someone will read this and take this seriously because I've been a pretty loyal supporter over the years. But when I see something that's legitimately a bunch of bull****, I'm going to be blunt and honest about it.

I absolutely could not agree more with you. Mark me down as one of those customers who skipped v.12 and is dismayed, bemused & discouraged by the new & surprisingly cumbersome XML file.

The primary selling point of OOTP has always been its customizability. As you astutely point out, the decision to change the format of the world database and not include an editor was not only unconscionable, but downright boneheaded. I honestly & sincerely hope this is ameliorated soon. It's a disappointing step backwards. The game should becoming more user friendly with each new version, not less.

On the plus side, however, if I understood him correctly in this thread, Andreas did mention that an editor will be added in an "early patch". Whether or not this will be the tool that game so desperately needs to enable us to edit our leagues in the manner that wish is purely a matter of conjecture. I guess all we can at this juncture is cross our fingers & hope for the best.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Once again, we have no support for an OOTP world database editor or a reasonable means of working with this file and getting what we want with fictional leagues.

This was a HORRIBLE decision by OOTP Developments to release OOTP12 and OOTP13 with the new XML world database format and NOT provide an editor or a proper means to import fictional worlds or historically accurate settings via CSV.

There should be something done for this immediately. We have people posting on the general forums who are confused and encountering some of the same problems that have been discussed here. Some are new customers. Others are existing customers who skipped OOTP12 and have now discovered to their dismay that the XML approach has ruined customization.

Yes, I know that the file can be edited, and there are tools to help with this. But Notepad++ is simply too cumbersome, and the XML format could not possibly be more annoying or less user friendly for editing ... even with mass find-and-replace operations.

I am not a low level computer user either. I have taught advanced courses in Microsoft Excel and Access, and I've built databases and consulted on all sorts of data projects over the years. In my career, I have worked extensively with data analysis and editing using a variety of software and tools.

But this XML approach is a PAIN IN THE ASS, and it's highly discouraging for anyone with the hope of creating fictional worlds or experimenting more with regions, languages, etc. It's also a PAIN IN THE ASS for incorporating mods into Add-Ons Central and having to use an XML file. The tags are just so clunky.

We live in a world with CMS, HTML editors, and software to make life easier. Why are we messing with code?! Even those who are high level computer users should have brains enough to understand how this DISCOURAGES sales and customer satisfaction.

Sure, it's great that we now have support for regions, and there have been a few other innovations based on the move to the XML file, but overall the negatives overwhelmingly outweigh the positives.

Can we get a commitment to fix this during the patch period for OOTP13, or do we have to wait for yet another version and potentially another huge disappointment?

I hope someone will read this and take this seriously because I've been a pretty loyal supporter over the years. But when I see something that's legitimately a bunch of bull****, I'm going to be blunt and honest about it.

It's why I didn't buy 12 nor at this point 13, it's like they learned a lesson from SI and that is make the game as hard to customize as possible. It took me an age to get the right city, towns and village names but only a matter of minutes to input them into 11, I downloaded the 12 demo and started to do the city file and gave up it was taking so long. For those who say it's easy my city file is around 4,000 strong if you'd like to edit that into 13 I'd be more than happy to email it to you

[kq76]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

It's why I didn't buy 12 nor at this point 13, it's like they learned a lesson from SI and that is make the game as hard to customize as possible. It took me an age to get the right city, towns and village names but only a matter of minutes to input them into 11, I downloaded the 12 demo and started to do the city file and gave up it was taking so long. For those who say it's easy my city file is around 4,000 strong if you'd like to edit that into 13 I'd be more than happy to email it to you

Email it to me and I'll put in your cities. I do just what ktulu does and all it is a copy and paste into a spreadsheet and then another copy and paste into a sample xml file. I'll attach both. The spreadsheet, which is in openoffice calc format, is only for cities, but you can easily follow its formulas to figure out how to do the same for multiple nations, states, whatever you want.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by kq76

Email it to me and I'll put in your cities. I do just what ktulu does and all it is a copy and paste into a spreadsheet and then another copy and paste into a sample xml file. I'll attach both. The spreadsheet, which is in openoffice calc format, is only for cities, but you can easily follow its formulas to figure out how to do the same for multiple nations, states, whatever you want.

It isn't just a list of names of cities though it's done in the old text files as in 11. I've never moved one league from version to version, always started with a fresh league but this league I've worked on I want it to be my last so to say, so would the city file move from 11 - 12 -13 without a hiccup or would it be best to start it a new and input it into 13

[kq76]

Send your cities, nations, and ethnicities files and we'll figure it out.

[Cryomaniac]

On this subject (I mentioned it in the other thread), I'm working on making the English counties into states and regions in the world_default.xml file.

England is a mess in the default file though, with quite a lot of places missing (the largest so far being Syston, Leicestershire which has a population of 11,000) or having no Latitude and Longitude data.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

On this subject (I mentioned it in the other thread), I'm working on making the English counties into states and regions in the world_default.xml file.

England is a mess in the default file though, with quite a lot of places missing (the largest so far being Syston, Leicestershire which has a population of 11,000) or having no Latitude and Longitude data.

This maybe of help to you or someone else, I've been using it to get the latitude and longitude's for my fictional league I've been working on to help me map out my fictional world.

UK Towns & Villages

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

This maybe of help to you or someone else, I've been using it to get the latitude and longitude's for my fictional league I've been working on to help me map out my fictional world.

UK Towns & Villages

I've been using wikipedia's "List of civil parishes in <county>" articles, since most places with over 1000 population have wikipedia articles which include the lat / longs anyway.

Also, I have so far done the East Midlands, and I'm working on the "East of England" now (Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Suffolk, etc)

[albatross11]

Those are both good U.K. sources. Here's another one I've been using:

Maps of England Counties - UK County Map


Also, even though I use them when possible, I think that you can get away with putting "0.00" in the latitude and longitude fields (at least you used to be able to do that).

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by albatross11

I think that you can get away with putting "0.00" in the latitude and longitude fields (at least you used to be able to do that).

You can because quite a few of the cities in the default file do.

[Charlie Hough]

Originally Posted by kq76

Send your cities, nations, and ethnicities files and we'll figure it out.

It's great that you're willing to help, but this further proves the point. Those who previously had the ability to customize their nations and cities in OOTP are often finding the new method to be too difficult and tedious.

No one should need to send files to another person to get help. Ideally, the game should make it relatively simple and easy to set up your world using comma delimited text files or spreadsheets and then convert them through an editor or some other interface.

Sure, I've done some editing of the world_default.xml file, and it's reasonable for small fixes and such. But when we're having to use major copy-and-paste operations or formulas in Excel to get a larger job done, then it's been made more difficult than it needs to be.

It should be as simple as data entry into a few clearly organized data tables. Then the game should take this and convert it into XML. Unfortunately, I'm not a programmer, but I dare say that any programmer that I've encountered could create this tool in a single day.