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Old 09-21-2013, 06:26 PM   #41
tward13
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ooh the internet tough guys are out in force. Maybe a bench clearing brawl can break out so this can be a "manly" thread.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:53 PM   #42
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So, if you're cool with less fighting, you don't need to adjust anything? I want penalties for slashing and hooking and stuff, I just think fighting is overrated, bland and staged. If two guys fight because they are genuinely pissed at each other that's one thing, but often these guys will sort of look at each other, shrug and drop the gloves.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:09 PM   #43
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ooh the internet tough guys are out in force. Maybe a bench clearing brawl can break out so this can be a "manly" thread.
I’m not sure what the friction is all about here, in reality fighting IS part of the NHL, and so it’s important for the developers to make sure it’s as valued in FHM just as much as it is by the real life coaches. Whether you like fighting in the NHL or not is irrelevant, realism is what’s important here, and it’s good that the issue has been brought up.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:21 PM   #44
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Well said Puck. Now can we get some clarification if this is going to be addressed in the next patch?
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:57 PM   #45
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I've checked back on the forums a number of times to see if this is being addressed. At first, the development team made it pretty clear that fighting isn't a priority at all...they neglected it, and now there's some backlash as the players are demanding realism in their sims. So now they appear to be addressing it at least a little bit.

But in my opinion it still looks like there's a LONG way to go. For now, I'll stick with Action PC hockey (which is doing an AWESOME job with the fights, having added brawls and goalie fights with the last 2 releases, and much more realistic results overall) and APBA, which is free and has available all seasons from 1917 to present.

But, I haven't given up...in an ideal world I'd love to see a total hockey sim like this with a career mode AND realistic fights/penalties. I'll continue to check back from time to time.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:32 AM   #46
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10:01TOR J. Devane Fighting - 5 min against C. Tropp
10:01BUF C. Tropp Fighting - 5 min against J. Devane
10:01TOR A. MacWilliam Fighting - 5 min against M. Zigomanis
10:01TOR T. Bozak Fighting - 5 min against C. Ruhwedel
10:01TOR J. Bernier Fighting - 5 min against R. Miller
10:01TOR T. Brennan Fighting - 5 min against D. Bagnall
10:01BUF B. Flynn Fighting - 5 min against C. Ashton
10:01BUF M. Zigomanis Fighting - 5 min against A. MacWilliam
10:01BUF C. Ruhwedel Fighting - 5 min against T. Bozak
10:01BUF J. Scott Fighting - 5 min against D. Clarkson
10:01BUF R. Miller Fighting - 5 min against J. Bernier
10:01TOR D. Clarkson Leaving player's/penalty bench - 10 min
10:01BUF D. Bagnall Fighting - 5 min against T. Brennan
10:01TOR C. Ashton Fighting - 5 min against D. Bagnall
10:01BUF J. Scott served by M. Grigorenko Instigator - 2 min against P. Kessel
10:01TOR J. Bernier Goalie leave crease - 2 min against R. Miller
10:01BUF R. Miller Goalie leave crease - 2 min
10:01BUF J. Scott Misconduct - 10 min
10:01BUF J. Scott Game misconduct - 10 min against P. Kessel
10:01TOR C. Ashton Misconduct - 10 min
10:01TOR T. Bozak Misconduct - 10 min
10:01TOR T. Brennan Misconduct - 10 min
10:01TOR A. MacWilliam Misconduct - 10 min
10:01TOR J. Bernier Game misconduct - 10 min
10:01TOR D. Clarkson Leaving player's/penalty bench - 10 min
10:01BUF D. Bagnall Misconduct - 10 min
10:01BUF M. Zigomanis Misconduct - 10 min
10:01BUF B. Flynn Misconduct - 10 min
10:01BUF R. Miller Game misconduct - 10 min against J. Bernier
10:01BUF C. Ruhwedel Misconduct - 10 min
10:01TOR P. Kessel Match penalty - 10 min against J. Scott

Maybe fights dont belong in NHL :-) Good damn i want this kind of things in FHM. This was once in a week thing in 70's and 80's.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:48 AM   #47
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Fn right man freaking awesome game. This should be implemented in the asap. Brawl should be part of the game. Yeah fighting is nit part of the game. If you dont think so then you are not a real hockey fan!
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:22 AM   #48
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Even though I'd like to see line brawls and goalie fights added to the game I will be happy when I see some enforcers actually playing in the NHL in this game and FM totals being realistic (if not more so)
Shawn Thornton having 1FM in 52GP? I know he's not the most aggressive enforcer out there, but he's not even fighting the Kaleta/Ott's in the league which he should be considering the lack of actual enforcers.

Playing EHM07 most teams would dress an enforcer, most of the time and I would dress a very tough lineup that would probably average 1.5-2FM/game. Most of the fun I had with that game was with the enforcers/pests.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:08 AM   #49
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Why do fights still happen in every league?
Same reason they break out in other sports as well. Competitive fires sometimes break out. Human nature. Hockey (love it as I do) doesn't have a special market or connection to "fighting", other than to permit it on some kind of "honorable grounds". People fight, in all sports. It's human nature.

Other physical sports don't allow it (NFL, rugby). There's really no honest justification for it in hockey other than it was a way to appeal to people who don't want to take the time to learn about the actual game.

The bottom line is people act as bad as you allow them. Buffalo/Toronto last night is a classic example of that. Just a stupid fight that meant nothing. If anyone thinks that adds any credibility or ANYTHING AT ALL to the sport of hockey, they're delusional.
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #50
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Same reason they break out in other sports as well. Competitive fires sometimes break out. Human nature. Hockey (love it as I do) doesn't have a special market or connection to "fighting", other than to permit it on some kind of "honorable grounds". People fight, in all sports. It's human nature.
a) Well, you can sure argue that there are fights in every sport. But honestly, how often haven you seen tennis players fight? In football (soccer) you actually may see the odd fight. But the outcry is immense and the suspensions are loooooong. And in hockey? Which leads to...

b) Isn't the point you make exactly the connection? Fighting in hockey is seen as perfectly fine when emotions boil over or as a measure to take revenge of some sorts. In that way hockey is "connected" to fighting WAY more than any other sport (expect boxing, marshall arts etc., of course). It is condoned, even if game misconducts are handed out in a lot of leagues. Btw, European leagues haven been less strict about fighting in recent years. For example, there's only majors in the KHL and 2+2+10 in Germany.

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The bottom line is people act as bad as you allow them. Buffalo/Toronto last night is a classic example of that. Just a stupid fight that meant nothing. If anyone thinks that adds any credibility or ANYTHING AT ALL to the sport of hockey, they're delusional.
I agree that this brawl was absolutely stupid. It was idiotic of John Scott to go after Phil Kessel. However, would you rather have seen Scott gang up on Kessel and have the other Leafs as viewers in the first row? I don't think you can blame the Leafs, but only Scott.
The funny thing is that Scott actually achieved something with his attack: The Leafs lost one of their more important players for 10 games. Not too bad in a meaningless game against a division rival before the season even began...
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Old 09-23-2013, 03:53 PM   #51
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a) Well, you can sure argue that there are fights in every sport. But honestly, how often haven you seen tennis players fight? In football (soccer) you actually may see the odd fight. But the outcry is immense and the suspensions are loooooong. And in hockey? Which leads to...

b) Isn't the point you make exactly the connection? Fighting in hockey is seen as perfectly fine when emotions boil over or as a measure to take revenge of some sorts. In that way hockey is "connected" to fighting WAY more than any other sport (expect boxing, marshall arts etc., of course). It is condoned, even if game misconducts are handed out in a lot of leagues. Btw, European leagues haven been less strict about fighting in recent years. For example, there's only majors in the KHL and 2+2+10 in Germany.
Valid points, but you're argument breaks down when you apply this logic to other sports. Why not allow fighting in those sports? They are equally as physical, in some degrees even more so. And there are seriously stupid and dangerous things that take place in those sports, yet the players are CONDITIONED to look to the officials and league offices to exact punishment. They are not allowed to exact revenge on their own. That's what I'm saying, NHL players (and humans in general) will get away with what you allow them to get away with.

The argument I often hear is that without fighting, stick work would increase. I will agree with that. However, I would counter that if you make the punishment strict enough for doing so, the players will be CONDITIONED not to do it. They can be conditioned to look to the officials to exact punishment and judgement. That's not the culture now, and that's why there is fighting, plain and simple.


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I agree that this brawl was absolutely stupid. It was idiotic of John Scott to go after Phil Kessel. However, would you rather have seen Scott gang up on Kessel and have the other Leafs as viewers in the first row? I don't think you can blame the Leafs, but only Scott.
The funny thing is that Scott actually achieved something with his attack: The Leafs lost one of their more important players for 10 games. Not too bad in a meaningless game against a division rival before the season even began...
That entire thing was a product of the condoned hockey culture. The proof that fighting and violence can be regulated out of hockey lies in the bench clearing brawl. They are practically non-existent now, especially at the NHL level. Why? The punishment for them was severe enough to CONDITION the players to react differently.

IMHO, fighting in hockey is not required, it is tolerated and even condoned because it gives the sport an image of being tough and physical. The belief that players are on skates and can't get great leverage when punching is becoming moot, as players are stronger and more physical now. Injuries from fighting will only increase.

To me allowing fighting belies an inherent lack of faith in the appeal of actual hockey by those in charge. The game is amazing on its own. Players can be tough without fighting or having to have another, generally less skilled player fight another often un-involved player for them. With a few simple and strong rules, fighting for the sake of fighting could be removed from the sport. Punish the blatant rough stuff severely. Punish stick work severely. Let the players know it won't be tolerated and it will go away.

Now the question to that is - will anyone care for hockey any more if there's no fighting? That's the fear at the NHL level, make no mistake. But there will still be spontaneous fights, just like in other sports. It will always happen, as it happens in other sports (baseball, basketball, etc.).

My position is that there is no need to allow it by rule. Ban it, protect the players with stiff penalties for stick work and rough stuff after the whistle, etc. A player should be allowed to check an opponent cleanly without having to worry that he'll have to "answer" for it through the season. That's ridiculous. Hockey is a physical sport.

In the Sabres/Leafs example, Scott probably wouldn't even be in the NHL if fighting wasn't allowed. But the NHL culture now allows him to be there, and things like last night will continue to happen until it's banned and stiffly penalized.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:40 PM   #52
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We can all agree to disagree. I won't even bother to write an essay on how hockey fights are a major part of hockey let alone the ability of the players to govern themselves just as they have through out the history of the sport.

Guys like scufflefeathers above me can write a whole F&^kin page of his philosophy on himself and how others view the more physical side of the sport and people like me can write on how it's an integral and crucial part of the game

Where is it gonna go ? 15 pages of absolute flamming! I ruffled some feathers but truth be told everyone has they'er own opinion to the sport and thats what makes hockey special and above everything else!

Here's a challenge ... I'd like to call out these developers from hiding behind they're curtain and mabey get they're a^^'s involved with the community and shed some light here and there on all these topics besides an update once every two or three weeks, we obviously have alot of people from all walks of lives. Myself I work in the oilfield for 12-15 hours a day and still have time to post at the very least here and there... whats they'e excuse ??

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Old 09-23-2013, 04:46 PM   #53
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We can all agree to disagree. I won't even bother to write an essay on how hockey fights are a major part of hockey let alone the ability of the players to govern themselves just as they have through out the history of the sport.

Guys like scufflefeathers above me can write a whole F&^kin page of his philosophy on himself and how others view the more physical side of the sport and people like me can write on how it's an integral and crucial part of the game

Where is it gonna go ? 15 pages of absolute flamming! I ruffled some feathers but truth be told everyone has they'er own opinion to the sport and thats what makes hockey special and above everything else!

Here's a challenge ... I'd like to call out these developers from hiding behind they're curtain and mabey get they're a^^'s involved with the community and shed some light here and there on all these topics besides an update once every two or three weeks, we obviously have alot of people from all walks of lives. Myself I work in the oilfield for 12-15 hours a day and still have time to post at the very least here and there... whats they'e excuse ??
It's always interesting to see people's reactions when someone doesn't agree with them, even when it's not them directly that's involved. Very interesting indeed, to see how people portray themselves or how they view debating.

Regarding developer posting, I have some coding experience, and it's a surprisingly draining enterprise. It's also an extremely detailed and focused job. Truth be told, after a day of staring at a computer screen, running and re-running the same thing over and over just to fix one little issue... you don't feel much like spending your "free" time on a message board. They communicate through JeffR, as it should be, IMHO.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:54 PM   #54
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It's always interesting to see people's reactions when someone doesn't agree with them, even when it's not them directly that's involved. Very interesting indeed, to see how people portray themselves or how they view debating.

Regarding developer posting, I have some coding experience, and it's a surprisingly draining enterprise. It's also an extremely detailed and focused job. Truth be told, after a day of staring at a computer screen, running and re-running the same thing over and over just to fix one little issue... you don't feel much like spending your "free" time on a message board. They communicate through JeffR, as it should be, IMHO.
It is interesting isn't it ? call me old fashioned but your the type of clown I'd love to hit in the chin rather then listen to your two bit debate on whatever point your trying to get to. As for your big nose directing itself straight up the developers poopie, I'm sure they were born with a spine so rather some intellitec preacher doing the bidding for them I'm sure they can handle themselves cupcake.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:56 PM   #55
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It is interesting isn't it ? call me old fashioned but your the type of clown I'd love to hit in the chin rather then listen to your two bit debate on whatever point your trying to get to. As for your big nose directing itself straight up the developers poopie, I'm sure they were born with a spine so rather some intellitec preacher doing the bidding for them I'm sure they can handle themselves cupcake.
LOL

Ah, the internet tough guy, the bane of the interwebs. Rest assured, I'm shaking in my well-paid and hockey-loving boots LOL

So I guess you're saying that the First Amendment or people who can think aren't really for you?
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:10 PM   #56
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LOL

Ah, the internet tough guy, the bane of the interwebs. Rest assured, I'm shaking in my well-paid and hockey-loving boots LOL

So I guess you're saying that the First Amendment or people who can think aren't really for you?
Well, the pro fighting guy has to be the "tough" guy too. Maybe you used words too big for the Neanderthal?

To give the devil his due, those fans in Toronto were sure eating it up.

Then again I'm quite certain that a decent part of the population would be all for Roman style gladitorial games.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:02 PM   #57
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Fn right man freaking awesome game. This should be implemented in the asap. Brawl should be part of the game. Yeah fighting is nit part of the game. If you dont think so then you are not a real hockey fan!
*sigh*

Has it really come to this?

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Old 09-23-2013, 10:13 PM   #58
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Really attacking a poster because you dont agree with him. Ridiculous!
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:39 PM   #59
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ooh the internet tough guys are out in force. Maybe a bench clearing brawl can break out so this can be a "manly" thread.
c'mon buddy! Drop them gloves!!!!

:d
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:07 AM   #60
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Valid points,(... long post ...) it's banned and stiffly penalized.
I see can see some of the points you make, but at the end of the day it comes down to this: You don't like fighting and want it removed. However, I think it is pretty hard to introduce such a radical change in an environment that is accustomed to fighting. It's been part of hockey culture for over 100 years and it is what sets hockey apart from any other sport in the world. You shouldn't (and can't) mess with this.

As for those tough guys in the pro-fighting group: Oh my...
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