Cleveland Indians 2016 Season Thread

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Ah. I had checked the score before I went to bed using the MLB At Bat app and it didn't mention the cramping, just that Shaw was in. I just read a recap now that did mention it.

Shaw has been hot and cold all season, I hope he can work through whatever it is that he is going through. It brings the need to make a move to add a relief pitcher to the back of the bullpen much higher on the list now.

[TribeFanInNC]

That move to let Bauer start the 7th certainly ended up biting them in the rear. He wasn't exactly mowing through the Twins in the innings prior to that either.

The problem really stems from having no one to really rely on in the 7th and 8th innings. Manship and Shaw could just have easily given up those runs (obviously Manship did once those guys were on). THey really need to pull the trigger on some guys. I'd prefer the Miller route, but if we have to go after second tier Brewer guys - that's still an upgrade.

Tough loss last night, glad I didn't watch.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

Shaw has been hot and cold all season, I hope he can work through whatever it is that he is going through. It brings the need to make a move to add a relief pitcher to the back of the bullpen much higher on the list now.

He had been quite good in his last 8 or 10 outings. I guess he was bound to have another bad one. Still not sure he should be an 8th inning guy right now.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

That move to let Bauer start the 7th certainly ended up biting them in the rear. He wasn't exactly mowing through the Twins in the innings prior to that either.

The problem really stems from having no one to really rely on in the 7th and 8th innings. Manship and Shaw could just have easily given up those runs (obviously Manship did once those guys were on). THey really need to pull the trigger on some guys. I'd prefer the Miller route, but if we have to go after second tier Brewer guys - that's still an upgrade.

Tough loss last night, glad I didn't watch.

I watched the first 3 innings, then watched an episode of "Mr. Robot" (trying to finish the first season) and then went to bed. I checked the At Bat app at that time and saw it was still 2-0 in the 8th with Shaw. I felt reasonably assured and went to bed...though I wasn't terribly surprised when I saw the score this morning...

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

He had been quite good in his last 8 or 10 outings. I guess he was bound to have another bad one. Still not sure he should be an 8th inning guy right now.

You're right. he has been pitching better lately, but I guess I am spoiled from the past 3 years here, where his ERA was near or below 3.00 and he looked unhittable at times. If they can get a Miller, Jeffress or Doolittle in a trade, then Shaw goes to the 7th and the new guy is the 8th inning man with Allen in the 9th.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

You just named their top 3 prospects, no way you give one of them up for a relief pitcher, even if he is under control for 2 more seasons after this one. I have heard P- Mike Clevinger (#7), C - Francisco Mejia (#8), IF- Erik Gonzalez (#11) and 3B - Yandy Diaz (#13) all tossed around. The one package that made sense to me was Clevinger, Mejia and another low level guy for Miller. Either way, it's nice to be talking about being buyers instead of what prospects they will get back for our major leaguers.

Here is an article on Fangraphs about prospects and success rates that kinda sums up my general view. Unless they are truly top 10 guys, prospects wash out a lot, even guys like Frazier and Bradley and Aiken. I'm willing to get 100 known innings of MLB quality for one of those guys considering there is >50% chance the prospect gives you nothing at MLB level.

Again though, I'm willing to admit this could be a terrible idea too. Easy for me to armchair GM with no consequences. I also think the trade where we got Ubaldo was a good move too, so plenty of grains of salt to take this with.

EDIT: oops, forgot the link....http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/did-t...drew-pomeranz/

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

Here is an article on Fangraphs about prospects and success rates that kinda sums up my general view. Unless they are truly top 10 guys, prospects wash out a lot, even guys like Frazier and Bradley and Aiken. I'm willing to get 100 known innings of MLB quality for one of those guys considering there is >50% chance the prospect gives you nothing at MLB level.

Again though, I'm willing to admit this could be a terrible idea too. Easy for me to armchair GM with no consequences. I also think the trade where we got Ubaldo was a good move too, so plenty of grains of salt to take this with.

EDIT: oops, forgot the link....Did the Red Sox Really Overpay for Drew Pomeranz? | FanGraphs Baseball

I guess I am hesitant to trade off too many of these guys because that is the only way a team like the Indians can survive, because they don't have the resources to go out and spend themselves out of bad trades. I agree that you never know if a prospect will pan out, I mean we have seen our share recently (Andy Marte, Matt LaPorta.....) and yes I know that all teams have guys that fit that bill, but some of them can throw money at that mistake and fix it, teams like the Indians have to ride it out and we get those 70 win seasons.

That being said, I know they have to make a move to improve the bullpen and now it looks like go get another outfielder since Brantley is getting another MRI on his shoulder and they are saying he could be shut down the rest of the year. So I would be ok with them dealing one of those top guys because it looks like they finally have restocked the farm with talent so if the guy the dealt away becomes a good player, there is more of a chance that there is someone else that can come up and be just as good.

I don't want to see another Brian Giles for Ricardo Rincon trade happen. And I think the Ubaldo trade worked out well in the end for the Indians...sure Pomeranz has pitched well this year, but it took him a few years and two organizations to maybe figured it out.

[TribeFanInNC]

Cleveland takes Game 3 and Royals series with authority with 11 runs in the first 5 innings. Go Tribe! Off day, then a trip to Baltimore for the weekend. Disappointed I can't make the trip there this year (Camden is the closest AL park to me).

Carrasco's splittey-changey pitch is awesome right now. So much movement.

Also guilty admission - I picked up Tyler Naquin for my fantasy team

[TribeFanInNC]

Buster Olney is reporting that Indians are in discussions with Brewers for Lucroy trade:

Cleveland Indians have interest in catcher Jonathan Lucroy

[ohiodevil]

Carrasco looks unhittable lately and has easily become what people consider an "Ace"....maybe the Cliff Lee trade wasn't so bad after all!!

I had the game on at work (love FoxSports Go app!) and yesterday's game reminded me of the team we had in 1995, they looked like they had the Royals pitchers scared to throw strikes because they knew it was going to be hit a ton. The next two series will be interesting as they play Baltimore and Washington, and I think Strasburg is pitching one of the games here in Cleveland.

With the emergence of Naquin, I feel better if they had to deal one of the OF prospects to land that bullpen arm, or maybe Lucroy....but I heard that Milwaukee has a lot of OF prospects so they want either pitchers or corner infielders. Would hate to see Bradley go because I think he is going to be a big time power hitter if he gets up to the majors. But honestly, I am not really buying that they make a move to get Lucroy, because they still think Gomes is the guy behind the plate and with him under control til 2020, I just don't see them trading for a catcher of Lucroy's caliber. I think it was more Milwaukee leaking that so they can get more in a trade with someone else. If they go get a catcher, I see it being someone like Kurt Suzuki and the "big" trade they make will be for bullpen help.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

Cleveland takes Game 3 and Royals series with authority with 11 runs in the first 5 innings. Go Tribe! Off day, then a trip to Baltimore for the weekend. Disappointed I can't make the trip there this year (Camden is the closest AL park to me).

Carrasco's splittey-changey pitch is awesome right now. So much movement.

Also guilty admission - I picked up Tyler Naquin for my fantasy team

I have him as well. What a nice little surprise this guy is turning out to be. I'm in a AL only league, so finds like this are so very valuable. I actually picked him up early in the season and got ticked when the Indians didn't have playing time for him. Dropped him when he was sent down, but since I also had Brantley, I picked him back up again when Brantley went back on the DL. I've since traded Brantley....man I didn't want to do that, but by dumb luck, I'm in the thick of the race in my league and just couldn't wait out the injury any longer. Do you think the Indians will have at bats for Tyler when Brantley returns?

[ohiodevil]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I have him as well. What a nice little surprise this guy is turning out to be. I'm in a AL only league, so finds like this are so very valuable. I actually picked him up early in the season and got ticked when the Indians didn't have playing time for him. Dropped him when he was sent down, but since I also had Brantley, I picked him back up again when Brantley went back on the DL. I've since traded Brantley....man I didn't want to do that, but by dumb luck, I'm in the thick of the race in my league and just couldn't wait out the injury any longer. Do you think the Indians will have at bats for Tyler when Brantley returns?

They are saying that Brantley could miss the rest of the season, but they won't know for sure until they get the MRI results back. But I read that when Brantley is back, Naquin will still see a lot of playing time in CF with Almonte going down to Triple-A and Davis will probably split time in RF with Chisenhall. Ramirez will go to 3b and Uribe will come off the bench. But going into next year, I think Naquin will be given the first crack at winning the everyday CF spot.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by ohiodevil

They are saying that Brantley could miss the rest of the season, but they won't know for sure until they get the MRI results back. But I read that when Brantley is back, Naquin will still see a lot of playing time in CF with Almonte going down to Triple-A and Davis will probably split time in RF with Chisenhall. Ramirez will go to 3b and Uribe will come off the bench. But going into next year, I think Naquin will be given the first crack at winning the everyday CF spot.

I think this is really driving the decision. If Brantley comes back, I think they would be OK standing pat with the offense. If he can't come back, then we are back to being stuck with Ramirez and Chiz batting fifth and sixth on a playoff team and they would likely so something to help the offense. It wouldn't necessarily have to be Lucroy, could be Bruce (not pushing this, just noting as a possibility) or whoever. But I would expect them to make an offensive move if the news turns south again, which seems more likely.

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Do you think the Indians will have at bats for Tyler when Brantley returns?

Yes as long as he keeps hitting. Worst case I think is he would be the good platoon side with Rajai in CF.

Unfortunately, I didn't get the 2 HR, 6 RBI day yesterday.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by TribeFanInNC

Yes as long as he keeps hitting. Worst case I think is he would be the good platoon side with Rajai in CF.

Unfortunately, I didn't get the 2 HR, 6 RBI day yesterday.

I did. and boy do I need home runs. I was actually able to trade Brantley and Zimmermann for Chris Davis and Chris Archer(Archer is a free agent in our league, so he is a rental) a couple weeks back. Did this trade for the home runs and hoping my getting rid of Zimmermann gets him out of his funk(yeah I'm very superstitious). So far, I think Davis has hit me one home run and now he has some form of virus and isn't able to play. I swear I'm jinxed.

[ohiodevil]

A pretty good read in today's Plain Dealer talking about how the Indians formed the starting rotation:

10 years in the making: How the Cleveland Indians' vaunted starting rotation came together | cleveland.com

[Bobbuttons]

The season series against the Orioles makes it look as though Baltimore has the best starter ERA in the AL and Cleveland has one of the worst instead of the other way around...

[TribeFanInNC]

I can rationalize that the Os are not a good matchup for Tomlin. I can't rationalize why we couldn't hit their pitching. Ugh. I'm a little afraid the back half of our lineup is remembering that they are all journeyman players.

[TribeFanInNC]

FWIW:

Report: Indians have best deal on table for Chapman | Yardbarker.com

I also read some snippet somewhere where Cody Allen has done the "I'll do whatever the club needs" line. Maybe it's true.

[ohiodevil]

It sounds like the Cubs may be the top contender to get Chapman, which I am ok with because I hate giving up prospects for a rental, especially when that rental player could go back to the original team.

Yankees, Cubs Working On Trade Involving Aroldis Chapman, Gleyber Torres - MLB Trade Rumors

I see the Indians getting someone like Will Smith and maybe the (re)signing of Joe Thatcher gives them a lefty on lefty guy that can be better than the circus of lefties they have run out there all season.

On another note, they promoted both Frazier and Zimmer to Triple-A Columbus:

Prospect Notes: D'Backs, Indians, Chang, Perez - MLB Trade Rumors