Czech names generated/used by the game

[no way]

Originally Posted by geckon

I can have a look at them too. Have you made any changes already? I would like not to duplicate our work.

Here is what I did, if you want you can check it.

[Kebabking]

no way: I'll PM you some surnames really quick, hope it helps

edit: message sent, hope it arrived - I don't have it in my mailbox for some reason.

[geckon]

Originally Posted by no way

I have first names done and last names about 40%. I was thinking that I would give it to you after I was done to check it because more eyes see more (prostě víc očí víc vidí )

Originally Posted by no way

Here is what I did, if you want you can check it.

Thanks, I'll look at it during today.

[geckon]

Originally Posted by JeffR

The name files will be different from OOTP, the European ones in particular in OOTP aren't good enough for hockey. I've been working on them, but they've been taking a backseat to other priorities for a while. Czechs are done, sort of: I did them with an English keyboard, so the special characters are missing. If someone who speaks Czech would like to make themselves useful and edit those in (and correct any other spelling issues with the names), here are the files.

Jeff, I just wanna ask a few questions before I'll make any changes...

1) What encoding the file with the Czech special characters included should have? I suppose it's UTF-8 but I rather ask...

2) Where did you get those names? There are some (e.g. Jeremy, Georg, Nikolas etc.) I don't consider Czech although I admit there could be a Czech man using such name - but it would be _very_ rare. Is it possible to delete names from the file to make it more accurate?

3) Is it possible to add new names to the files? I missed some names after a brief scan of the files (like Miroslav or Radovan).

4) I suppose the first number after a name expresses how often the name should occur. Is that right? Did you get those numbers from some statistics? There are some which I feel they are not right (like Jaromír or Josef) although I don't have any real numbers in my hands now. I could probably find and use some statistics to correct the numbers. Is such effort desired?

5) What does the second number express?

I'd like to improve at least the first names file since I think the first names are more annoying if they are done wrong. There are quite enough surnames so they won't repeat so much but if there is a problem with first names' frequency and you see a lot of lets say Rostislavs (which is not so much common Czech name) you will be disappointed.
My plan is to add more names to the file, take some name frequency statistics and correct the freq numbers accordingly. I must admit though that I think I won't make it all done today. Would you like to see such work done or are you not interested in this?
Thanks.

[geckon]

Time for a little update and few more questions

I searched for Czech name databases and found some. I have three possible plans. Please tell me which one you find better for the game.

1) Use the database provided by Czech ministry for internal affairs. It contains all names used in Czech Republic and can be sorted according to frequency of newborns in any year since 1890. So I could pick one year and take lets say 200 most used names that year for newly born children.
Advantages:
- Old names used lets say fifty years ago won't be included (or less often) although people with such names still live.
Disadvantages:
- Statistical error. Let's say that in the picked year there were uncommonly few Jans born although normally this name is very common. The resulting file would be affected by such abnormality.
- I would have to sort female names out by hand since the database contains male and female names together.

2) Use another database which is probably based on the same or similar data but shows only overall numbers of living persons with given names.
Advantages:
- It doesn't have the statistical problem described above.
- I can filter out only male names automatically so less work for me
Disadvantages:
- It includes older names that are not used much nowadays.
- It includes some Slovak names which is I think mostly reflecting Slovaks who stayed in Czech Republic after Czechoslovakia split-up (so no the people born after 1993).

3) Just take the file given by JeffR and edited by no way and edit it more - make some corrections, add missing names, delete few names etc.
Advantages:
- Probably the fastest option. (Maybe the 2nd one could be faster, hard to say.)
Disadvantages:
- Certainly not as accurate as the others.

Questions:
- (Valid only for the first plan) What year to pick? Since I suppose the first newgens will be generated for the 2013/2014 season it should probably be something like 1990-2000. Do you agree? Which one would you pick and why?
- (For developers only) What range is used for the name frequency in the name generator? I need to know that to be able to normalize the real frequency numbers.
- How many names would you include into that file?

I personally prefer probably the second option for it should probably be both fast and precise enough.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by geckon

1) What encoding the file with the Czech special characters included should have? I suppose it's UTF-8 but I rather ask...

Yes, UTF-8.

2) Where did you get those names? There are some (e.g. Jeremy, Georg, Nikolas etc.) I don't consider Czech although I admit there could be a Czech man using such name - but it would be _very_ rare. Is it possible to delete names from the file to make it more accurate?

I started with the names of all the Czech nationality players in the database and then some from things like older seasons, lists of Czech sportsmen, and so on. So "Jeremy" is from Jeremy Tichý (Plzen U-20 player), Nikolas is from Nikolas Tverdak (Chomutov U-20), etc. I'd like to keep the really rare names in, but if anything looks completely wrong, take it out.

3) Is it possible to add new names to the files? I missed some names after a brief scan of the files (like Miroslav or Radovan).

Sure, go ahead.

4) I suppose the first number after a name expresses how often the name should occur. Is that right? Did you get those numbers from some statistics? There are some which I feel they are not right (like Jaromír or Josef) although I don't have any real numbers in my hands now. I could probably find and use some statistics to correct the numbers. Is such effort desired?

Yes, all the frequency numbers are added together, then the chance of an individual name being used is X/Total.) Those files are based mainly on the number of players with that name appearing in the database, with a few modifications to make the more common names more frequent.

5) What does the second number express?

It's the nationality identifier for the name, 26 is Czech.

My plan is to add more names to the file, take some name frequency statistics and correct the freq numbers accordingly. I must admit though that I think I won't make it all done today. Would you like to see such work done or are you not interested in this?

Definitely, go ahead and do it. I don't need it right away, the other name files are a long way from being done - I just happened to have the Czech one done already.

I searched for Czech name databases and found some. I have three possible plans. Please tell me which one you find better for the game.

I think 1) sounds like the best option. The main problem with 2) is the Slovak names - the Slovaks will have their own name list, and the way naming works, we can just specify that 2% (or whatever the exact number is) of Czech-nationality players get Slovak names - so I'd like to keep the name lists (European ones, at least) as single-nationality as possible.

(Valid only for the first plan) What year to pick? Since I suppose the first newgens will be generated for the 2013/2014 season it should probably be something like 1990-2000. Do you agree? Which one would you pick and why?

Maybe 1993-present. Since the names are going to be for future players, I think current naming trends should be reflected. (Even though it's a little disturbing to see character names from Twilight, Harry Potter, and so on in the newest lists.)

(For developers only) What range is used for the name frequency in the name generator? I need to know that to be able to normalize the real frequency numbers.

The frequency numbers are added together for each nationality and then the chance of an individual name appearing is (its frequency number/total number). So they're only relative to each other and there's no specific range to use. But don't try to make it represent the real life numbers perfectly - it's better to set a cutoff where all names below a certain percentage of the population get a 1, set the frequencies for the more common names in proportion to that - and then lower those numbers for the common names by at least 50% (for some reason, if you try to match real life perfectly, it just doesn't look right - there are far too many common names.)

How many names would you include into that file?

As many as you want. The Canadian and American last name lists will be 8000-9000 names long, so if you want to have a few thousand, no problem.

Thanks for the help. Again, take your time, it doesn't take long for us to incorporate them into the names file once we have them.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Strelka

If you would like me to look at Russian/Ukrainian/Belorussian I can do that.

Sure, I don't have them done for Ukraine/Belarus yet (I was planning on separate files for all 3), but here's Russia. Unfortunately, it's a mess - I made the mistake of adding in the OOTP Russian names, which are terrible - feminine names, lots of Central Asian names, and so on. I've tried to clean it up, but from what Alessandro tells me, I missed a lot. So if you can get rid of some of the obvious problems, that would be great.

[JeffR]

And as long as I'm asking for help, I might as well post this: here's the (provisional) ethnicities.txt file for the game. The ones marked with asterisks are already done (and a few others will probably be lifted entirely from OOTP, when their names are good enough for our purposes, e.g. Latin American and Japanese names), but the others need work. If anyone wants to help with any of these, speak up. Some of them will need to be built from the ground up, but for most I can provide you with beginning files built from the player database.

[Strelka]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Sure, I don't have them done for Ukraine/Belarus yet (I was planning on separate files for all 3), but here's Russia. Unfortunately, it's a mess - I made the mistake of adding in the OOTP Russian names, which are terrible - feminine names, lots of Central Asian names, and so on. I've tried to clean it up, but from what Alessandro tells me, I missed a lot. So if you can get rid of some of the obvious problems, that would be great.

I fixed the first names, it was easy. A few completely not Russian names, a few Central Asian names, and several of the same name transliterated in a different style - I deleted the repeats and kept the same style throughout.

Now the last names - wow. It is going to take me some time to go over 5000 names, I'd guess maybe 1000 are Central Asian. And while yes you have your Uzbek here and there that is a Russian who plays hockey, his name isn't going to be "Ivan." So with the way the engine selects names I think it's best to leave them out of the Russian name file.

[grindline]

Originally Posted by JeffR

And as long as I'm asking for help, I might as well post this: here's the (provisional) ethnicities.txt file for the game. The ones marked with asterisks are already done (and a few others will probably be lifted entirely from OOTP, when their names are good enough for our purposes, e.g. Latin American and Japanese names), but the others need work. If anyone wants to help with any of these, speak up. Some of them will need to be built from the ground up, but for most I can provide you with beginning files built from the player database.

I have never done anything like this before but I would love to help in some way.

I suppose the obvious thing would be to do the English ones (given I am from England) but if any really random sets need building from the ground up and you can't find anyone with any expertise I don't mind having a go.

[geckon]

Originally Posted by JeffR

I started with the names of all the Czech nationality players in the database and then some from things like older seasons, lists of Czech sportsmen, and so on. So "Jeremy" is from Jeremy Tichý (Plzen U-20 player), Nikolas is from Nikolas Tverdak (Chomutov U-20), etc. I'd like to keep the really rare names in, but if anything looks completely wrong, take it out.

Yes as I said - there can be person with such name but it is very very rare. And it's not like it is rare Czech name (like for example an old one) but it's an inspiration from other languages. I will see how many names I'll get from the database etc and then I'll decide what to do with such names. But when I'll be deleting Slovak names I think I should delete those as well.

Originally Posted by JeffR

I think 1) sounds like the best option. The main problem with 2) is the Slovak names - the Slovaks will have their own name list, and the way naming works, we can just specify that 2% (or whatever the exact number is) of Czech-nationality players get Slovak names - so I'd like to keep the name lists (European ones, at least) as single-nationality as possible.

I could remove the Slovak names if I'd use the 2nd option but if you think 1) is better anyway I can do that.
The possibility of Czech player getting Slovak name seems cool to me. Would it be possible (and usable) something like a very very little chance of getting any language's name for a newgen with any nationality? Name files could be purely national and you could still have Jeremy Tichý this way.

Originally Posted by JeffR

Maybe 1993-present. Since the names are going to be for future players, I think current naming trends should be reflected. (Even though it's a little disturbing to see character names from Twilight, Harry Potter, and so on in the newest lists.)

OK, I can remove female names and then sum numbers of newly born people with given names from years 1993-2012 and build the file based on that.
If there will be Harry Potter Novák (or similar) as a Czech name in the statistics I promise I will remove it ;-))
(Btw any possibility to have women hockey? Not that I would need it, it just crossed my mind :-))

Originally Posted by JeffR

The frequency numbers are added together for each nationality and then the chance of an individual name appearing is (its frequency number/total number). So they're only relative to each other and there's no specific range to use. But don't try to make it represent the real life numbers perfectly - it's better to set a cutoff where all names below a certain percentage of the population get a 1, set the frequencies for the more common names in proportion to that - and then lower those numbers for the common names by at least 50% (for some reason, if you try to match real life perfectly, it just doesn't look right - there are far too many common names.)

OK. Do you have any suggestion what cutoff to use? By common names you mean only the most common ones or any names above the cutoff?

Originally Posted by JeffR

Thanks for the help. Again, take your time, it doesn't take long for us to incorporate them into the names file once we have them.

OK, I'll try to do it the most properly when there is enough time. If you would need it for some reason just tell me and I will try to do it faster.

[no way]

To geckon:
if you want some hlep, just contact me and I'll do whatever I can or you need

[geckon]

Originally Posted by no way

To geckon:
if you want some hlep, just contact me and I'll do whatever I can or you need

Thanks for the offer. This will probably be a one-man work but if I find something I could use help with I'll write you.

[archibalduk]

Originally Posted by grindline

I have never done anything like this before but I would love to help in some way.

I suppose the obvious thing would be to do the English ones (given I am from England) but if any really random sets need building from the ground up and you can't find anyone with any expertise I don't mind having a go.

The North American names from OOTP would be a good starting point for the English names. I guess it'd be just a case of taking out the non-English names from the list.

In case it is of any help, I have attached a spreadsheet of British players broken down by nationality (i.e. England, Scotland, etc). This covers players in the EIHL, EPL and NIHL-1. Maybe this might be useful to anybody who looks at the British names (please note that I don't have any names from the Rep of Ire - hence that worksheet is blank).

Some other name resources:

SCOTLAND
- Common male Scottish forenames: Scottish First Names: Scots names -Women
- Common Scottish surnames: Appendix:Scottish surnames - Wiktionary
- Top 100 Scottish surnames (2001 Scottish census): http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea1.pdf
- Top 300 Scottish surnames (1901 Scottish census): http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea5.pdf

ENGLAND & WALES
- Top 100 English male baby names & top 100 Welsh baby names (2011 census - see Table 2 for England and Table 3 for Wales - Table 6 has a list of the top 6083 boys names for England and Wales and lists their frequency): http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/...boys--2011.xls
- Common English & Welsh surnames: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...land_and_Wales)

OTHER
- Common surnames for various other countries: Category:Surname appendices - Wiktionary

[grindline]

Ok. I will try some of the British or Irish name files if the ootp American names file is available.

[Whitebear]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

Another annoying thing is getting french surnames and first names for people born in ontario or western canada. Sure there is the odd one but it's rare. In ootp it's way too common getting Jean-Pierre Lefebvre born in Calgary.

BTW it's not that rare 21.7% French and 20.6% other language in Canada

Mother tongue (percentage distribution), Canada, provinces and territories, 2011 Census

Richard, Lafleur, Lemieux, Roy, Beliveau, Plante, Bourque, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Dionne, Perreault, Brodeur, Fleury, Marleau, Brière, Giroux, Bergeron etc..

[tward13]

Originally Posted by archibalduk

The North American names from OOTP would be a good starting point for the English names. I guess it'd be just a case of taking out the non-English names from the list.

In case it is of any help, I have attached a spreadsheet of British players broken down by nationality (i.e. England, Scotland, etc). This covers players in the EIHL, EPL and NIHL-1. Maybe this might be useful to anybody who looks at the British names (please note that I don't have any names from the Rep of Ire - hence that worksheet is blank).

Some other name resources:

SCOTLAND
- Common male Scottish forenames: Scottish First Names: Scots names -Women
- Common Scottish surnames: Appendix:Scottish surnames - Wiktionary
- Top 100 Scottish surnames (2001 Scottish census): http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea1.pdf
- Top 300 Scottish surnames (1901 Scottish census): http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...es_tablea5.pdf

ENGLAND & WALES
- Top 100 English male baby names & top 100 Welsh baby names (2011 census - see Table 2 for England and Table 3 for Wales - Table 6 has a list of the top 6083 boys names for England and Wales and lists their frequency): http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/...boys--2011.xls
- Common English & Welsh surnames: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Append...land_and_Wales)

OTHER
- Common surnames for various other countries: Category:Surname appendices - Wiktionary

My Scottish ancestors must have all come over and taken their names with them. I see the Gardiners and Orrs in 1901 but not in the recent list! At least the Russells are still around.

[CeeBee]

Originally Posted by Whitebear

BTW it's not that rare 21.7% French and 20.6% other language in Canada

Mother tongue (percentage distribution), Canada, provinces and territories, 2011 Census

Richard, Lafleur, Lemieux, Roy, Beliveau, Plante, Bourque, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Dionne, Perreault, Brodeur, Fleury, Marleau, Brière, Giroux, Bergeron etc..

How many of those were NOT born in Quebec though? 2? and those 2 have first names of Bryan and Theoran though Trottier's and Fleury's have been Quebecois as well.

[Whitebear]

Originally Posted by CeeBee

How many of those were NOT born in Quebec though? 2? and those 2 have first names of Bryan and Theoran though Trottier's and Fleury's have been Quebecois as well.

Bryan Trottier Val-Marie SK
Denis and Jean Potvin Ottawa, Ont
Patrick Marleau, Aneroid SK (Don't know if he speaks french?)
Claude Giroux Hearst, Ont
Alex Plante Brandon MB

Well five on 18 is about 27% out of Quebec !

I think it's fair to say that there's enough french name in North America even in USA but it doesn't mean they speak french.

[Nino33]

The post you replied to initially referred to players "born in Ontario or western Canada"

Your response indicating 21.7% French didn't refer to western Canada and Ontario but rather all of Canada

The data you linked to indicates 1.5%-4.1% French as mother tongue in western Canada and Ontario