I check once a day for the 'update'

[BradC]

Please don't misunderstand me: Of course we want to hear suggestions. It's just that right now, the team is focused on getting the FHM 2014 update and FHM 2015 done. As Dave and other Beta testers have confirmed, yes, development really is happening, but they don't have anything to show right now, for various reasons.

I understand that the lack of updates other than "We're working on it" is frustrating, but, again, if we post something like "Still working on the match engine, we are having trouble with the game still counting goals second after second," then, as I said, that could open us up to questions. Why isn't it working right? And if it's not working right, can we count on it working when the game ships? Etc.

I can't answer those questions, so I would need to ask the guys, and that would take away development time. And then those questions could beget more questions, etc.

Also, what is really the point of posting something like that? Everyone knows the team is working on the game -- Does a post like that confirm the game really does exist, whereas the lack of a post creates doubt? I realize people want reassurance that the game is being worked on, but, believe the Beta testers and I -- It really is being worked on.

Better to produce screenshots, or even gameplay video, when we're ready, and show things that are worth showing off. And if people want to offer feedback, wonderful -- We will be happy to hear those comments then.

Thanks.

[BradC]

Also, RE the below, here are Sebastian's public posts about FHM 2015 features:

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3746688

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...te-thread.html

Neither of those cover everything that will be in FHM 2015, but they're a start. There's more beyond that in the Beta forum, but that's private, and those things will be discussed publicly when the team is ready to reveal them.

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

How about a breakdown of features. Is multiplayer still being worked on for 14 as previously stated? Is there a screen shot that shows something different from the match engine?

[AlpineSK]

So then you be the buffer, Brad. Take the five most talked about things you see in the forum, for example, and on Friday, or whatever day you designate it, send those five things to whoever. Heck, call it "The Fast 5" and lock the thread. Get those five questions answered in a sentence or two, and post it. Those answers are the answers as they stand with the statement that this is the case and the devs won't elaborate any further until they are ready and able.

It gives us a taste and a little bit of info, and it creates buzz for the product while taking a minimal amount of time away from the Dev team.

[TheAdamBn]

As a customer it feels a lot like a schoolyard exaggeration.

'hey, I've got a great new match engine'

'can I see it'

'oh no.. You can't see it, but I've got it'

'so let me see it'

'nah, you can see it when I want you too'

What usually happens in these circumstances? You begin to doubt that the kid in school actually has the cool new thing they are bragging about or just get bored of waiting and seek it elsewhere. You might even get fed up with that kid and just avoid him in the playground.

Nobody wins in this situation. 9 months down the line, prehaps some transparency is a good thing. Posting a weekly update will alleviate a lot of consumer frustration and possibly open up some goodwill. He'll posting that an area is still an issue may allow you to get another pair of eyes on it and they may see an option that you couldn't

[Särås]

Looking as usual after a update... No news...

Will OOTP and FHM send a mail when the update or the new patch of FHM14 is ready?
And the same with FHM15?

Thanks!

[BobC]

Originally Posted by TheAdamBn

Posting a weekly update will alleviate a lot of consumer frustration and possibly open up some goodwill.

Personally, I'm not even looking for a weekly update -- just a one-off status would be fine with me. As a reminder, Jeff posted the following back in June:

"Now that that patch is out and we're up and running on Steam, a few details on what we're doing at the moment, and what to expect in FHM 2014's final patch:

Match engine replacement: I described this in much more detail here, and there's not much that's changed since that description, other than some minor changes to play-by-play that, if they make it in, will make the PBP a little more situational and descriptive.

Multiplayer: As you can see in 1.6.19, we've started implementing pieces of this already, and there are also less-visible parts of it completed. Multiplayer in FHM 2014 is going to be fairly rudimentary; expect something similar to what existed in OOTP5 or 6. It'll be functional, but it won't have all the nice bells and whistles like generating nice HTML pages for you. We'll try to make as much data exportable as .csv files as possible, though, so it can be manipulated into whatever kind of format you want for your league website.

Roster management/player movement: This is the area that will be a bit of a wildcard, as it depends on how quickly the other two things progress. I know what I want to do, but some of it (particularly an overhaul of farm/parent interactions) may be too ambitious right now and will have to wait until next year's game. But even if that doesn't make it in, I want to review some of the AI roster management systems (including trading) that don't seem to be operating quite as intended at the moment. Finally, I've been upgrading the way the roster movement works in nonplayable leagues, and have added new junior and lower-level leagues that should make player development in a number of the smaller playable leagues a little more robust. That part is mostly finished, and we'll be starting testing on it in the next day or two.

Minor bugfixing: We'll also be looking at any outstanding bugs that still need to be addressed, and possibly some more minor tweaks like the extra draft information we added in 1.6.19.

The database will also be getting the usual revisions; we skipped the update in 1.6.19 to keep the patch stable, so there'll be quite a few changes built up since the last time there was a new one released. I've been working through the NHL teams, reviewing all their currently-contracted players and prospects to get their ratings in line with their 2013-14 performance."

So that gives us a good idea of what to expect in the patch. A month later, Jeff posted a quick status update as follows:

"The Patch: Work is still ongoing. The match engine changes are taking longer than expected; Sebastian is continuing to work on them. Multiplayer also needs some additional work to make certain features fit into the existing framework of the game. NHL expansion in the modern game, which I mentioned we were looking into last week, is done. It'll be fairly limited for the moment, though: a one-time (optional, you can choose not to have it) expansion at the start of the 2015-16 season. Quebec and Seattle will be the default teams, but the names and cities can be changed. If it occurs, the NHL will switch to using a new 32-team schedule; we came up with a workaround for the inadequate schedules the autoscheduler was producing. It's a tentative first step at getting more flexible league structures in the main game, and we'll hopefully be able to improve on it in the future. But for now, if you want to take over an expansion team, you'll be able to. And I think we'll be switching the (unexpanded) NHL schedule to the non-Olympic version (along with changing back to the regular trading deadline) so there won't be that big gap every year."

To me, that was an excellent update. It didn't make any firm release commitments, but still provided an overview on the progress being made on each of the features. However, despite repeated requests for information, they've made it clear they're not willing to provide an update such as the one above. I think that decision is awful, particularly since we've already waited over 8 months. Although I desperately want a good hockey simulation, based on the way this is being handled I think it's time for me to cut my losses and walk away from FHM specifically and OOTP as a company forever. It's a shame.

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by TheAdamBn

As a customer it feels a lot like a schoolyard exaggeration.

'hey, I've got a great new match engine'

'can I see it'

'oh no.. You can't see it, but I've got it'

'so let me see it'

'nah, you can see it when I want you too'

What usually happens in these circumstances? You begin to doubt that the kid in school actually has the cool new thing they are bragging about or just get bored of waiting and seek it elsewhere. You might even get fed up with that kid and just avoid him in the playground.

Nobody wins in this situation. 9 months down the line, prehaps some transparency is a good thing. Posting a weekly update will alleviate a lot of consumer frustration and possibly open up some goodwill. He'll posting that an area is still an issue may allow you to get another pair of eyes on it and they may see an option that you couldn't

you interpreted it incorrectly.
"I'm working on one."
"Can I see it now?"
"No, but you will see it once it's finished."

[Anton]

I don't care about any of this. Someone just make a good hockey sim so I can stop pretending to like baseball.

[tcblcommish]

His expectations for the sight of something isn't wrong tho the analogy was kinda funny. When you tell people for months that there is something and just keep on saying it and saying it without showing something, he isn't wrong. People start believing that it doesn't exist and move on which is what is happening here.

As far as the new game, how far along is it? Has it been worked on for months as well? It has a test build going on so things are progressing so why is showing a screen so hard after all this time? Something, anything to generate some kind of interest in this game or possibility of this game.

The lack of updates, lack of talking or showing a new game is very, very heartening. I have been a supporter for this game since I hear about it being linked to ootp and will always be because it's hockey but if you want sales you have to generate interest. Look how dead this board is. People have stopped playing this game and already have moved on and probably found something else to play.

I really and truly just do not understand not showing something to help ease people's minds and try and generate some kind of interest. Makes so little sense to me but I'm not in the know of why and how things are run. Just talking about from my perspective. Just look at the backlash and fallout on the ea forums or operation sports for a while leading up to the launch of Nhl 15 next gen when they questioned the club feature being in the game and they said nothing and created such a negative bashing that could have been solved right away. Instead they got roasted for it.

I am still wanting a good experience but my hopes are fading daily.

[mpejkrm]

Originally Posted by Anton

I don't care about any of this. Someone just make a good hockey sim so I can stop pretending to like baseball.

Download EHM 2007 and get some updated rosters ... I've been playing it quite a bit recently with the season starting.

[Anton]

I put my time into EHM. Awesome game, but even NHL 94 gets to be a drag after a few hours.

[BradC]

There will be a lengthy blog post, with screenshots, published this week. I will post the link.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by BradC

There will be a lengthy blog post, with screenshots, published this week. I will post the link.

Thank you for taking our feedback and communicating the frustration to the developers. I'm pleased Sebastian decided to give us an update on the status of the patch and 2015 and I look forward to reading the blog post. It's enough to make me hang around a bit longer.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by BobC

Thank you for taking our feedback and communicating the frustration to the developers. I'm pleased Sebastian decided to give us an update on the status of the patch and 2015 and I look forward to reading the blog post. It's enough to make me hang around a bit longer.

As I wrote in my Update post: we promised the match engine patch (something we will not do again in the future) and so we will publish it. We basically re-write the match engine from scratch, it is a big workload (tbh, way to much for just an update) and will not rush it out in a state that we are not happy with. For me it is much more important to get it in a good state and continue from there in future versions then having it released fast and buggy.

For 2015, there should be no frustration at all: we never published any release date, we never published any possible features. The game will be released once we are happy with it. We took a lot of feedback from the last 1 1/2 years and put it into our thoughts for the new version.

Once the game is out, some people will hate the changes, some will love them. Thats just the way it is...

[Papi]

I find this thread fairly amusing. I haven't read it beginning to end, but I don't think I need to.

We really should feel "lucky" (it's the best word I can come up with in this situation) that we have ANY communication with the developers. Ever get an email from EA giving us beta updates on their latest and greatest? The fact that Brad, Sebastian and everyone else on the team sets time aside to answer just about every question that can be answered (even the moronic ones), says something about what this company thinks of us, their consumers.

It's this level of customer service, both FHM and OOTP, that keeps me coming back, year after year, buying every single new version, even if the differences are minor. As a company, they have also earned my trust that they will follow through on what we tell them we want, and that they will do their best to include it as they see fit. If that trust is broken at some point in the future, well, I will deal with it then. I want to support this company and watch it grow, if only because that will allow them to hire more people, people that can help make the games better each year, bringing in more $$ and repeating the cycle.

I have no doubt this type of post has been made before and by no means am I looking to stroke egos or pump anyone's tires (to quote Roberto Luongo), and I am not advocating blind faith. If you are new to this company, then it will take time, that's understandable, but also know that the OOTP team has come through time after time, which again, is why we keep coming back. That's all I have.

Keep up the great work guys and I am patiently waiting for FHM 15!

[BradC]

The blog post is here. I will repost it in its entirety on this forum too.

FHM 2015 The Road to Release: A Look at the New Interface