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Old 03-24-2019, 01:48 PM   #101
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OMG I have found a fatal flaw to OOTPXX!! Under owners goals (I am GM for the 2019 Seattle Mariners) the Owner wants me to sign Ichiro Suzuki to an EXTENSION!! I am so "slightly" disappointed,
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:48 PM   #102
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I don't post often, but I have purchased every year for a long time. This is still the best baseball sim out there so I will continue to purchase it. For the way that I play the game, the changes were minimal. There are a couple things that are my pet peeves with the game that haven't been fixed in years. The first is expansion. I would like a better experience with this. Let me set up my minor league teams. If I can't, at least don't put two of my teams in the same league like it does for the rookie leagues and the low A leagues. While setting up my minor league teams is an easy fix by editing everything, I would like for it to be done for me so I can get right into the game and play.

The second is with Personnel. I would like all Personnel to be linked to their player's profile so it would avoid creating duplicates every year. I hate seeing two Don Mattingly's, Mike Matheny's, etc. Again, I can edit this by deleting them, but shouldn't my time be spent playing the game as opposed to editing out these types of issues? Also, update the Personnel's histories. For example, Eric Wedge and Ozzie Guillen have no records in their history.

These are rather small and are no way a game breaker for me. They are just annoying and time consuming to edit them out when all I want to do is play the game. So, my slight disappointment for this game is that these issues haven't been addressed in years. However, I still love the game and will continue to purchase it. I know the team works hard on making a great experience year after year. I would just like a little more attention to these small issues, if possible.
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Old 03-24-2019, 01:50 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
1) Improved simulation engine - 32.45% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
3) Improved trade AI - 22.12% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
I would point out that those two areas could always be improved from version to version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
4) Improved contract / finances logic - 19.55% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
There is SO much more that could be done in the area of finances. I've said for awhile now that the financial model needs a rewrite to really push it forward in terms of features, realism, and flexibility.

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OOTP is already so massive that it is essentially impossible to add any more "shiny" new back-of-the-box features.
Oh, I think I could come up with a few.

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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Things like "Ability to schedule games on neutral grounds in the schedule editor" may be important for you personally, but overall only 3 out of tens of thousands of customers care about this at all, so for us it is very far down in the priority list.
That sort of thing could be handled now by simply adding a park field to the schedule file structure (similar to the FHM schedule file structure). Then a specific park for a given game could be added directly to the schedule file without having to edit things inside OOTP itself.

A park field is needed anyway for (a) better recreation for historical leagues, since switching parks during a season or using an alternate park was a thing in MLB for many years; and (b) it means spring training schedules could properly reflect training taking place in the appropriate locales.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:28 PM   #104
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I bought the damned game because I do support OOTP and love it. But don't confuse that for being happy with this version. It's underwhelming and a lot of people feel that way when you step outside of this forum bubble.

That's okay. OOTP has built up some customer loyalty from me. If we get a similar upgrade next year you will start to hear more grumbling.
I was in the same boat up until this past year. Hell, even bought FHM 1-3 and probably played less than 10 hours total just to support OOTP. But I can’t anymore. There was not a single feature listed when they finally posted them that made me want to get XX. Maybe once new features get added, I may purchase when it’s on sale during the All-Star break. But it’s not a $40 buy for me this year. And that sucks.
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Old 03-24-2019, 02:55 PM   #105
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Only thing that I've been disappointed about so far is the fact that when you play 2D Classic the pitchers facegen flashes off and on with every single pitch. I've turned off Facegen because of this, but it made transferring my 19 league useless because the facegens already exist.
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Old 03-24-2019, 03:34 PM   #106
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I would point out that those two areas could always be improved from version to version.

There is SO much more that could be done in the area of finances. I've said for awhile now that the financial model needs a rewrite to really push it forward in terms of features, realism, and flexibility.

Oh, I think I could come up with a few.

That sort of thing could be handled now by simply adding a park field to the schedule file structure (similar to the FHM schedule file structure). Then a specific park for a given game could be added directly to the schedule file without having to edit things inside OOTP itself.

A park field is needed anyway for (a) better recreation for historical leagues, since switching parks during a season or using an alternate park was a thing in MLB for many years; and (b) it means spring training schedules could properly reflect training taking place in the appropriate locales.
Yeah I don't know why they don't like to touch the schedule editor. Needs overhauling.

After home team you could have city played then game type. Looks like there is room for that and I don't see what's such a big deal because like you said they do play neutral site games. White Sox back in 1969 played many games in Milwaukee and teams move home games because of hurricanes,etc. So it does happen but if it's too much work for them oh well.

Another thing about the schedule editor,why is exhibition game the default at the bottom of the page rather than regular season game.
I think most people here play regular season games and hardly an exhibition game is scheduled.
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:20 PM   #107
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It was clear that the development staff knew there was very little done to the core of the game when they refused to release a feature list before launch. I highlighted this and said it was troubling that they were relying upon past good will to get pre-orders.

Of course the OOTP crew in their always kind ways didn't really address anything I stated [nor have they really done so in this thread] and ultimately locked the thread as to not spark more potential negative press towards the game... which I understand but is obviously quite shady from business perspective.

They knew that very limited new features were added and very few things were changed to this version and I sincerely hope that the OOTP squad hears the criticism and does something about it in subsequent patches.
As evident by this thread, I do not forsee the past good will of the development team to withstand another minimal effort game in the coming iterations.
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:27 PM   #108
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Wonder what folks would do if OOTP announced they weren't going to release a new version next year, but would be charging $39.99 for the MLB Quickstart and the update to historical db to feature the 19 season?
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #109
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Number two is that there are tons of different player types, and all of them have their own little pet peeve issue they like to see improved, but we can not possibly tackle all of these all at once, because we are still a very small team and we have to make decisions. Things like "Ability to schedule games on neutral grounds in the schedule editor" may be important for you personally, but overall only 3 out of tens of thousands of customers care about this at all, so for us it is very far down in the priority list. I hope this makes some sense.
I think this is a really good point. I don't play historical. I don't set up fictional leagues. I don't play online. I basically only play MLB starts and play them a few decades out by assuming GM/Manager roles and simming a week at a time. For me, sim accuracy and an AI that produces results indistinguishable from a current MLB game is paramount to me. 3D animations, customizability, etc is all fluff to me. I'm always going to be the one complaining when I see AI strategy decisions that make no sense or on field results (out at 3rd with 2 outs, tagging at 1st to go to 2nd on flyball, 4-3-6 double play, etc) that seem out of line and some of these have been fixed or improved over the years. But you won't see me complaining about the other stuff and I'm sure some of you really couldn't care less if a MLB start produced results indistinguishable from the real MLB because you only play fictional or historical or whatever. So keep in mind that this game seems to satisfy to some degree a lot of different play styles and your play style, especially if it happens to be a minority position within the OOTP community, may not always get the love from the development team that you think it deserves.
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Old 03-24-2019, 04:39 PM   #110
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I was in the same boat up until this past year. Hell, even bought FHM 1-3 and probably played less than 10 hours total just to support OOTP. But I can’t anymore. There was not a single feature listed when they finally posted them that made me want to get XX. Maybe once new features get added, I may purchase when it’s on sale during the All-Star break. But it’s not a $40 buy for me this year. And that sucks.

I am in 4 online leagues representing over 100 people. Two of those leagues have decided not to upgrade until the break when the game is cheaper. One is still debating but leaning to waiting. One has determined to upgrade right of way.

This is very unusual for the online leagues in general. At least the one's I've been associated with over the last decade.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:06 PM   #111
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OK, one full season completed:

The Good: The games are beautiful to watch. The animations are sharp and I didn't see any of the occasional glitches or weird plays you might see from time to time in 19. No lagging. butter smooth. nice work there. AI roster management seems to be improved. I did still see some in game moves that made no sense but for the most part it is better than 19. Bugs. I only found one and it was minor and already being fixed. Pitching to contact seems to be working as it should now. In '19 you were taking your life in your hands when you called that. Now a GB pitcher throwing to a GB hitter produced a GB most of the time. Spray charts... nuff said

The Bad: I was still bombarded with seriously annoying and utterly terrible trade offers. Some really bad trades still happened. Definitely work to be done there. Free agents are still signing deals with indy leagues for contracts the indy leagues can't afford. Still no history for ***, LMB, and maybe Dominican and Puerto Rican leages. I really want that. The rest of the bad really comes down to this: for a new OOTP version this is pretty light fare. We didn't get all that much compared to years past. But having bought and played every version since 8 there have been versions that moved the needle a little and some that moved it a lot. Even the former are fun to play.

The Indifferent: Having said that last part, OOTP does have some toys to offer the casual player that takes over their favorite team and plays this season in the standard MLB mode. The live updates and other tools will be appreciated by them. But, like many folks who frequent this board, the die-hard players, I don't play that way. I prefer fictional and historical. And while there is good stuff, it's a lot less. That might frustrate some players into skipping 20. And I would not hold that against them. The slogan used to be "It's your game play it your way". The problem there is there are so many ways to play OOTP it's likely impossible to make a new version that gives something for everyone.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:10 PM   #112
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OK, one full season completed:

The Good: The games are beautiful to watch. The animations are sharp and I didn't see any of the occasional glitches or weird plays you might see from time to time in 19. No lagging. butter smooth. nice work there. AI roster management seems to be improved. I did still see some in game moves that made no sense but for the most part it is better than 19. Bugs. I only found one and it was minor and already being fixed. Pitching to contact seems to be working as it should now. In '19 you were taking your life in your hands when you called that. Now a GB pitcher throwing to a GB hitter produced a GB most of the time. Spray charts... nuff said

The Bad: I was still bombarded with seriously annoying and utterly terrible trade offers. Some really bad trades still happened. Definitely work to be done there. Free agents are still signing deals with indy leagues for contracts the indy leagues can't afford. Still no history for ***, LMB, and maybe Dominican and Puerto Rican leages. I really want that. The rest of the bad really comes down to this: for a new OOTP version this is pretty light fare. We didn't get all that much compared to years past. But having bought and played every version since 8 there have been versions that moved the needle a little and some that moved it a lot. Even the former are fun to play.

The Indifferent: Having said that last part, OOTP does have some toys to offer the casual player that takes over their favorite team and plays this season in the standard MLB mode. The live updates and other tools will be appreciated by them. But, like many folks who frequent this board, the die-hard players, I don't play that way. I prefer fictional and historical. And while there is good stuff, it's a lot less. That might frustrate some players into skipping 20. And I would not hold that against them. The slogan used to be "It's your game play it your way". The problem there is there are so many ways to play OOTP it's likely impossible to make a new version that gives something for everyone.
I agree with your last part 100 perfect. I thought 19 is a little better on the face, but the under the hood stuff for 20 is good the more you play
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:11 PM   #113
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I've played many versions of OOTP in the past. I will admit, I am not one who buys it yearly. The changes from 19 to 20 seem minimal, but I will also say I am still enjoying the game.

My big concern, and it's something that concerns me with most game releases these days is more of a focus will be put on the "Live Services" aspect of the game for recurring revenue. I understand it isn't cheap to develop a game and support it but if the focus shifts to how much money can we make from this, base games become an afterthought and suffer because of it.

I know this isn't a 'AAA' title, but you look at games in that category like Destiny, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty etc. and the focus has become on how much money they can milk from live service aspects.

If the developers use the additional revenue to support the base game, hey I cannot complain about that. When it becomes the feeling of lets get more transactions in there to boost our profit and no real improvements are seen in game, that is a concern.

Hopefully a nice balance can be found.
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:36 PM   #114
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1) Improved simulation engine - 32.45% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
2) Improved 3D in-game action - 29.73% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
3) Improved trade AI - 22.12% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
4) Improved contract / finances logic - 19.55% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
5) More Perfect Team features - 17.48% -> Implemented in OOTP 20.
Part of my disappointment may be a marketing issue. What specifically was done for items 1,3, and 4? If three out of the five most asked for items barely get any mention in the new features thread how can anyone reasonably expect people to get excited?

This type of statement has been in every release of OOTP "We’ve improved all AI-related aspects of the game, including trading, contract logic, general roster building, and player evaluation, which lies at the core of the entire OOTP AI, resulting in the most challenging and rewarding gameplay ever in OOTP 20."

But without specifics, it feels like filler (it doesn't take much work to be able to make these claims). If that much development time and effort went into "background features" why are there not more specific details? Why are they basically a footnote to the release if those things are what the majority of the customer base asked for?
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Old 03-24-2019, 05:56 PM   #115
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Wonder what folks would do if OOTP announced they weren't going to release a new version next year, but would be charging $39.99 for the MLB Quickstart and the update to historical db to feature the 19 season?
You couldn't charge $40 for it. As their would be backlash. But if its was 20-25. I think it would sell like hotcakes as a DLC. Especially in the Steam environment.

You could even presell it say in like September. Which would also allow for a free update to come out along with the roster update.

If OOTP was like we are doing a big DLC the next 2 years before because we are creating a new 64 bit engine to take advantage of modern RAM and modern multiple core/thread processors I wouldn't mind dropping $25 the next 2 years for rosters updates and minor patches/updates.

Especially since I feel like the GUI is severely out dated. And its been updated so much it is not uniform all over. Some screen completely customizable and some aren't. Filters, find players all severely lacking GUI.

Some screens we get our custom views and some we do not. Nothing on the player profile is fully customizeable. But on teams screens we get our views. On finance screen we can change windows around just like on the manager home screen we can move stuff and change windows. But on team screen we cannot.

The GUI is so inconsistent as a whole over the span of all the nooks and crannies of the interface.

I need 64 bit code, I need it to take advantage of 8gb+ of RAM, I need it to take advantage of at multy core systems. 6 cores/12 threads is pretty standard and after this summer 8 cores/16 threads might be the new standard.

Better the system the better the sim time should be. But we are limited cause it can't take advantage of ram cause its 32 bit. And its doesn't take advantage of as much multi core stuff as it can.

OOTP has t obe brought into modern computing of 2019. Its like stuck in 2010.
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:50 PM   #116
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Part of my disappointment may be a marketing issue. What specifically was done for items 1,3, and 4? If three out of the five most asked for items barely get any mention in the new features thread how can anyone reasonably expect people to get excited?

This type of statement has been in every release of OOTP "We’ve improved all AI-related aspects of the game, including trading, contract logic, general roster building, and player evaluation, which lies at the core of the entire OOTP AI, resulting in the most challenging and rewarding gameplay ever in OOTP 20."

But without specifics, it feels like filler (it doesn't take much work to be able to make these claims). If that much development time and effort went into "background features" why are there not more specific details? Why are they basically a footnote to the release if those things are what the majority of the customer base asked for?

This has always bothered me. The common patch-note phrase "and other fixes" just grinds my gears. I want specifics. I want to know what those fixes were, no matter how minuscule. Tell me what you did. Why is it different? Why is it better? And not just for the OOTP guys. This goes for all developers and their vague patch notes.
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:20 PM   #117
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Wonder what folks would do if OOTP announced they weren't going to release a new version next year, but would be charging $39.99 for the MLB Quickstart and the update to historical db to feature the 19 season?
Other titles do that every year.
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:34 PM   #118
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Yeah I don't know why they don't like to touch the schedule editor. Needs overhauling.
I focus more on the schedule file structure itself. There's definitely additions that could be made to it that would make it better. Examples: adding a park field. adding first half ending and second half opening dates for split-season schedules, multiple All-Star Game dates, even specifying the All-Star Game format could be done.

As long as the user can go in and directly make changes in the schedule file itself, the in-game schedule editor is not as important to me.

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After home team you could have city played then game type. Looks like there is room for that and I don't see what's such a big deal because like you said they do play neutral site games. White Sox back in 1969 played many games in Milwaukee and teams move home games because of hurricanes,etc.
Retrosheet has a list of all alternate site games played in MLB since 1901. And that list doesn't include the many instances of clubs moving to a new park during a season, or how the Cleveland Indians split its home games between League Park and Municipal Stadium for many seasons.

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Another thing about the schedule editor,why is exhibition game the default at the bottom of the page rather than regular season game.
The schedule file supposedly supports a 'type' field in which one can specify if a game is regular season or exhibition, although it is not used. This field could be enabled and used. It would be beneficial for having exhibition games during a regular season, something which MLB clubs did for a very long time, or for recreating the Negro Leagues which played many exhibition games during its regular season.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:06 AM   #119
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I need 64 bit code, I need it to take advantage of 8gb+ of RAM, I need it to take advantage of at multy core systems. 6 cores/12 threads is pretty standard and after this summer 8 cores/16 threads might be the new standard.

Better the system the better the sim time should be. But we are limited cause it can't take advantage of ram cause its 32 bit. And its doesn't take advantage of as much multi core stuff as it can.

OOTP has t obe brought into modern computing of 2019. Its like stuck in 2010.
As I already said in a different thread, these statements are inaccurate. The only difference for 64 bit is more adressable RAM. But, 32 bit already offers enough, you would have to create a really stupid league to get anywhere near the limit.

Regarding multithreading, the game supports modern core counts / multithreading automatically.

Last edited by Markus Heinsohn; 03-25-2019 at 04:29 AM.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:10 AM   #120
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Part of my disappointment may be a marketing issue. What specifically was done for items 1,3, and 4? If three out of the five most asked for items barely get any mention in the new features thread how can anyone reasonably expect people to get excited?
It is really tough to post specifics here and it's not really useful for marketing. What would it help if we posted something like "AI now properly inserts RP with role "Long" when trailing by more than 4 runs in bottom of 5th when manager tenency for hook is higher than 3 and manager tendency is not sabermetric and XXX and YYY." ... there would be hundreds if not thousands of them. Tweaking AI is incredibly complex and it is impossible to turn these complexities into short summaries, hence we simply state that we improved the engine and AI, and depending on the more we worked on it, the higher this gets up the list
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