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Old 09-12-2019, 09:32 PM   #1
Buster Cherry
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Real Life Historical Owners

The game has real life historical players and managers. Why not real life historical owners too? One of the teams I was GM for once had an owner who hailed from Hawaii. I suppose this would be okay if I had been playing a recent season but I was playing one in the 1920s. An owner from Hawaii? Good grief.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:53 PM   #2
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I'd love to see the owner influence expanded, as too often it seems we're handed a check for $XX and told, "Go forth and conquer." I can't even imagine the coding nightmare that would ensue to accomplish it.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Cherry View Post
The game has real life historical players and managers. Why not real life historical owners too? One of the teams I was GM for once had an owner who hailed from Hawaii. I suppose this would be okay if I had been playing a recent season but I was playing one in the 1920s. An owner from Hawaii? Good grief.
Id like to see it too. Right now i create my own historical manager. Id like an option like a manager's option of not getting fired. I hate creating the next historical owner and find out the team killed off the last historical owner and made a fictional one.
First thing would be to make a list of all historical owners. I'm not sure if that
data is available. In some cases its hard to figure out who was in charge when you have an estate or an equal partnership. Would be nice to have an option for a family estate or for companies.
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Old 09-21-2019, 12:24 PM   #4
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Coaches, also.
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Old 09-21-2019, 01:14 PM   #5
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Id like to see it too. Right now i create my own historical manager. Id like an option like a manager's option of not getting fired. I hate creating the next historical owner and find out the team killed off the last historical owner and made a fictional one.
First thing would be to make a list of all historical owners. I'm not sure if that
data is available. In some cases its hard to figure out who was in charge when you have an estate or an equal partnership. Would be nice to have an option for a family estate or for companies.
All of that information is out there, although I'm not sure it's all in one place. SABR is putting together ownership histories for each team - the project is about half-way finished.

A problem for OOTP would be those instances when teams were owned by corporations, like when the Yankees were owned by CBS or the Cubs were owned by the Tribune Co. Right now, all of the news stories and notifications presume that a human being is the owner. So you could get a notice saying: "CBS has looked at your roster and he thinks you should get a new third baseman." Also, OOTP would need to include the option for female pronouns for those occasions when women owned teams, such as Marge Schott (Reds) and Helene Britton (Cardinals).
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:48 AM   #6
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The edit owner feature has a female option you can choose only the picture doesn't look much like a female. The female picture wears a baseball cap and the faces are a little softer but otherwise it looks like a male. Then again, Marge Schott...…...
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Old 09-22-2019, 11:55 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
All of that information is out there, although I'm not sure it's all in one place. SABR is putting together ownership histories for each team - the project is about half-way finished.

A problem for OOTP would be those instances when teams were owned by corporations, like when the Yankees were owned by CBS or the Cubs were owned by the Tribune Co. Right now, all of the news stories and notifications presume that a human being is the owner. So you could get a notice saying: "CBS has looked at your roster and he thinks you should get a new third baseman." Also, OOTP would need to include the option for female pronouns for those occasions when women owned teams, such as Marge Schott (Reds) and Helene Britton (Cardinals).
I have historical owners on my transaction list but some owners are hard to find. For a business owning a team i just use Company for the last name. It could say The CBS company has looked at your roster.
What is mopre of a problem is when an estate owns the team. I just put the family name as first name and Estate as last. Unless i can find out who was in charge of the estate or running the team.
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Old 09-23-2019, 09:10 AM   #8
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The edit owner feature has a female option you can choose only the picture doesn't look much like a female. The female picture wears a baseball cap and the faces are a little softer but otherwise it looks like a male. Then again, Marge Schott...…...
I never knew that. Must be a new feature, or at least new-ish. But then I don't really pay attention to owners that much.

And are you suggesting that Marge Schott wasn't a beautiful person?

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Old 09-23-2019, 09:25 AM   #9
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I have historical owners on my transaction list but some owners are hard to find. For a business owning a team i just use Company for the last name. It could say The CBS company has looked at your roster.
Well, as I see it, the problem isn't that companies don't have last names, it's that the game thinks companies are all men. But if you're more interested in getting the owners right than the pronouns, this isn't an insurmountable problem.

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What is mopre of a problem is when an estate owns the team. I just put the family name as first name and Estate as last. Unless i can find out who was in charge of the estate or running the team.
Usually when a trust or a consortium owns a franchise there's someone who is the "face" of that team. After all, somebody has to attend league meetings. For instance, in the wake of Tom Yawkey's death the Red Sox were owned by a trust that he set up. His widow, Jean Yawkey, was one of the trustees and was the most visible representative of the team's ownership. Technically, the trust owned the team, but if you had to point to someone as the owner, it would have been her. Likewise, Bill Veeck sold the White Sox (the second time) to a group led by Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn. Reinsdorf quickly became the most active member of the group and is now generally regarded as the "owner," even though I don't know if he has ever held more than a 50% stake in the franchise. And the aforementioned Veeck never held a majority interest in any of the clubs that he ran.
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Old 09-23-2019, 06:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
Well, as I see it, the problem isn't that companies don't have last names, it's that the game thinks companies are all men. But if you're more interested in getting the owners right than the pronouns, this isn't an insurmountable problem.


Usually when a trust or a consortium owns a franchise there's someone who is the "face" of that team. After all, somebody has to attend league meetings. For instance, in the wake of Tom Yawkey's death the Red Sox were owned by a trust that he set up. His widow, Jean Yawkey, was one of the trustees and was the most visible representative of the team's ownership. Technically, the trust owned the team, but if you had to point to someone as the owner, it would have been her. Likewise, Bill Veeck sold the White Sox (the second time) to a group led by Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn. Reinsdorf quickly became the most active member of the group and is now generally regarded as the "owner," even though I don't know if he has ever held more than a 50% stake in the franchise. And the aforementioned Veeck never held a majority interest in any of the clubs that he ran.
I think if the game said The Tribune or the Tribune company fired Dusty Baker would be fine but i agree that the game would have to be able to ignore the male/female designation.
I kinda figured you could use the head of the trust but is that information still available?
How bout the Yankees with DanTopping and Del Webb. I lean towards Topping since he was president of the club.
I'm surprised that Bill James or some other baseball writer hasn't put out a book of owners in baseball history.
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Old 09-24-2019, 11:08 AM   #11
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I kinda figured you could use the head of the trust but is that information still available?
I would think it's more readily available for recent years. As you go further back in time, things probably get a little murkier.

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How bout the Yankees with DanTopping and Del Webb. I lean towards Topping since he was president of the club.
From what I've seen, Webb and Topping were always described as "co-owners." I don't know which one attended league meetings or signed contracts. Maybe it was Topping.

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I'm surprised that Bill James or some other baseball writer hasn't put out a book of owners in baseball history.
I imagine that SABR will put out a book once its team-ownership history project is completed.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buster Cherry View Post
The game has real life historical players and managers. Why not real life historical owners too? One of the teams I was GM for once had an owner who hailed from Hawaii. I suppose this would be okay if I had been playing a recent season but I was playing one in the 1920s. An owner from Hawaii? Good grief.
Well Hawaii was around in the 1920s.
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:45 PM   #13
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Well Hawaii was around in the 1920s.
I know Hawaii was around in the 1920's, Junior. But unless there were minor league teams in Hawaii back then there were no owners from Hawaii. It makes no damn sense at all to have a team owner of a New York franchise hail from Hawaii. Just because it was possible don't mean it was probable. Good grief.
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Old 09-29-2019, 12:34 AM   #14
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Not sure if it matters where an owner is from. Owners dont always come from the city of the team they own. George Steinbrenner was born in Ohio and owned the Yankees.
I can see a guy born in Hawaii and moving to LA or Chicago owning a team.
I do find it harder to believe an owner born in Hawaii and who stayed there before the tv age getting interested in becoming an owner of a baseball team.
But if a league has any type of fictional element like random players or fictional players, does it matter if a fictional owner comes from Hawaii?
It doesnt matter in a strictly historical league as you would be using historical owners.
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Old 09-29-2019, 09:05 AM   #15
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I know Hawaii was around in the 1920's, Junior. But unless there were minor league teams in Hawaii back then there were no owners from Hawaii. It makes no damn sense at all to have a team owner of a New York franchise hail from Hawaii. Just because it was possible don't mean it was probable. Good grief.
To set the record straight, the first Hawaiian minor league team began play in 1961.
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