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Old 09-03-2002, 02:30 PM   #41
DiversionX
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Great response, but you didn't answer my question. :-)
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Old 09-03-2002, 02:37 PM   #42
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and the question is?????
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Old 09-03-2002, 02:43 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
Great response, but you didn't answer my question. :-)
Didn't really want to base my post on the response, 'cause it may look as if your statements weren't valid. I am currently in two OOTP leagues where commish owns teams. I've been in two FPS leagues where the commish didn't own any team. Saving the distances (as OOTP does a much better work online that FPS ever did), my experience with that format was as good as the one I'm enjoying now.
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Old 09-03-2002, 02:47 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Specs
What about ScottVib's "Cobb Conspiracy"?
100% tongue-in-cheek. The joke was that Cobb's ratings raised so high that they had to have been edited. The joke is that Ty Cobb is really good.
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Old 09-03-2002, 03:19 PM   #45
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Wink Obviously still a joke.....

Quote:
Originally posted by IatricSB
Scott also thinks (jokes) that Michael Eichhorn (Hammer755) and I are the same person since Mike's team has been so dominant in Boys of Summer.
Further evidence that this is the case.... now that the Cleveland star is slightly dimmer... the Brooklyn club is pretty dominant....

Hmmm.... perhaps the Iatric/Hammer conglomerate can only maintain one superstar club at a time......

Or my accusations have forced "them" to allow us lowly AL teams a shot at the postseason for a little while.

In all seriousness, If I didn't trust Iatric, Hammer and the other owners in this league; or Steve and the owners in the OOL, I wouldn't be a part of either league. If I didn't think they could take my joking accusations, I wouldn't make them.

In Hammer's case he's just a good owner, making decent trades at the right time... he's got to be doing something right to not only take the first stretch of Boys of Summer Titles as well as the first two OOL Titles.

In Iatric's case, he paid his dues, the Dodgers were the doormat of the league for the first few seasons. This lead to a stocked farm system that allowed him to build the club he's got going today.

In the end, if you the owner, does not trust the commish of your league, you should get out of the league, regardless of the commissioners ownership status.


P.S. I still don't believe that Cobb really imported with Brillant talent in Getting Hits.... he must have been edited... Give me a break, the no talent bum only got a hit 37% of the time in his career, I mean sheesh after PUMPING IRON, I hit that well in Little League, but I don't think I'm rated Brillant Talent in getting hits. I demand compensation..... several extra first rounders will be sufficient.

Last edited by Scott Vibert; 09-03-2002 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 09-03-2002, 03:23 PM   #46
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Please don't tell Scott, but actually I own 15 of the teams in Boys of Summer. I wanted to see how fun it would be to beat Scott, so he was the only one I let into the league (other than myself that is).
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Old 09-03-2002, 03:24 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
By knowing the players in the league better than any owners simply by fact of working with the league more, the owner is at an advantage in trading. This shorts other teams in 2 ways 1) it directly effects the teams he trades with because they are giving up more for less. 2) it indirectly effects other teams because the commissioner's team is getting stronger through an advantage that only the commissioner has
How is it the Commissioner is the only one that has this advantage? Every owner has the same amount of time to study the league and players as the Commish. Any owner who is in a league for the enjoyment of playing and who desires to build a competitive team, knows his players and isn't going to get shorted in a trade. Giving up more for less? Yep, it happens, but not to owners who know their team and players. When it comes to knowing your team and players, the Commish has no advantage whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
By working on his team the commissioner is not working on the league. You can argue that the two are seperate things and someone can put as much time into either that they want, but in my experience of running a league, I get burnt out if I have too much stuff to do on a day-to-day basis.
You only have too much stuff to do on a day to day basis if you bring it on yourself. Go look at online leagues. You'll find that most of them today share the workload among everyone. What I get from your post is that your experience is the only one that matters. You really need to broaden your horizens and gain some experience by talking to other Commish's

Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
In OOTP the commissioner can run his own games, giving him an advantage over other teams. It might not seem like a lot, and just for arguments sake let's say the commissioner gets 3 wins throughout the course of the year because he was able to make smart decisions during managing individual games. Three wins might not sound like a lot, but it could be anywhere from 3 games to 6 games difference depending on who those three wins are against (if they are against their next direct competitor or not)
All this tells me is that you are very untrusting of others. Your mind is made up that all Commish's use their position to their advantage. That is plain to see from what you've typed here.

Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
These are examples of unbalance by someone whose purpose is to make the league more balanced; that is mutual exclusion, I.E. the jobs of commissioner and owner have directly opposite goals. One has a goal of making the league fair/even/balanced for everyone and the other has a goal of winning, which can also be seen as making the league unbalanced/uneven in favor of his team.
Well, maybe were you play they have two different goals, but not where I play. As an owner, my goal is to win, but I always put the league before my team. I try to make the league better first, then my team. Why you ask? Because without the league, my team wouldn't exist. That's as plain as the nose on your face. Any owner that doesn't realize that, doesn't care for the league, and therefore doesn't belong in it.

There are plenty of outstanding leagues online right now, and more coming almost weekly. Why are they outstanding? Because the Commish and owners care about the league. They promote it, they chip in and help do the little things that make the league great. They all give above and beyond building their team into a winner. So going by what you say, they are all at an advantage because they do stuff for the league as well as their team.



It's plain your mind is made up and no one is going to change it. Fair enough. We all have our own views on the way things are and should be. All I ask is that you try listening to other Commish's experience's and not base your decisions solely on your experiences as you are now. Chocolate isn't the only kind of pudding available. You might be surprised how good some of the other flavours are too......
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:13 PM   #48
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I am in two leagues. One has a commish with a team the other does not. In the JBL, the first online league i'd ever joined, the commish does not own a team. However, at one time, the JBL shared webspace with the RWBL, a league that featured a commish who did own a team, and did cheat. So I immediately felt better about the fact that I was in a league where I could be sure any decisions the commish was making was based purely on a desire to make the league better, stronger, and more interesting.

When I decided to seek out a 2nd league, I was looking for a commish who had a proven track record, and had made a name for themselves as knowing what they were doing as far as putting a league together was concerned. That way, whether they owned a team or not, I could trust that any time I invested in the league wouldn't be going to waste, and that the league would attract quality, skilled, involved owners. I know that even if the Commish put together a dynasty that took 3 crowns in a row, it would be done in the same way any other owner in the league would do it, following the same rules.

Look at it this way, if you cheat, you're gonna get caught, then you're gonna get outed on this board, and then you will find it extremely difficult to ever put together another league, or even own a team in another league, ever again.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:24 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by asamford
Look at it this way, if you cheat, you're gonna get caught, then you're gonna get outed on this board, and then you will find it extremely difficult to ever put together another league, or even own a team in another league, ever again.
...or you could change your name and do it again...
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:25 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by BruceM

It's plain your mind is made up and no one is going to change it. Fair enough. We all have our own views on the way things are and should be. All I ask is that you try listening to other Commish's experience's and not base your decisions solely on your experiences as you are now. Chocolate isn't the only kind of pudding available. You might be surprised how good some of the other flavours are too......
I'm basing everything I've said on my experience with my league (the first one I ever had any kind of experience in) and the few Mogul and 1 OOTP based leagues I've been in. I run my league because I know it makes 28 people happy, and that makes me happy.

In the OOTP based league I was in I had EVERYTHING go against me, from day 1. No one on my team played up to expectations, and when I finally gathered enough resources to move my team some people in the league slammed me for it and pretty much said I was a jerk for doing so, even though I was well within the rules. When I moved my team I again had everything go badly for me; 5 out of my top 6 prospects either got injured to the point of being useless or their ratings decreased on a regular basis . . . and all this happened while the commissioner took over a team and claimed he was selling his future for today. Now two seasons later the commissioner is running the same team with a near .800 winning percentage and has enough young talent to do so for the foreseable future.

I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to join a league if the only open team were in a division where the winner is pretty much set in stone every year.

That is the basis for my being against commissioner's running teams, feel free to slam me for basing this off my experience with 1 league, and feel free to try to sell me on joining your league. After all your comments I'd be more than glad to try out a league where the commissioner does run a team.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:31 PM   #51
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Well X,

It sounds like a bad experience, but I would say that based on my experience and many that have posted here that "this type thing" isn't the norm.

I'm certain that it isn't the first, nor will it be the last however....
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:42 PM   #52
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Sounds like sour grapes over bad luck. When I first joined MLBC, there was an owner that accused the commish of cheating because the current ratings of some of his players went down. He said that he commish must have editted the values since there was no mention of it in the teams news, etc. What he failed to realize was that the only time it is mentioned in the news is when the players talent goes up or down, not his current ratings. Anyway, he got angry and quit after only a couple of sims. Brent, who ran MLBC at the time, and now Barry who currently run it are beyond reproach. They've both run a great league and made it one of the best to be a part of. To condemn either one because of the success of their teams (they have both had success) would be ludicrous. Instead of worrying about them being successful, it always made me double my efforts to improve my team to their level (took me 9 seasons, but patience finally paid off).

With Barry in MLBC, Steve K in OOL, and Joe Cronin at Grand Ole Game, it has never entered my mind that any of these guys would even consider cheating. They should have a right to have as much glory when they win as any other owner and not have to feel guilty about it.

Bruce M said it best... any owner has the ability to know as much about his team and the incoming rookies if he takes the time to do the homework. In reality, I would think an owner would have an advantage over the commish since the commish has to spread his time out more and can't spend as much time with his team as an owner is able to. If the owner doesn't spend that much time, then that is the choice he makes.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:44 PM   #53
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If bad luck was a reason for thinking someone is cheating, then ScottVib would have left Boys of Summer long ago. He's suffered a slew of injuries to his staff. Luckily for him, it looks like a trade he made with Hammer755 has caused the injury jinx to move from his team to Hammer's. Hammer said the jinx may have been the "player to be named later". Following the trade, Hammer has seen several pitchers go down to injury.
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Old 09-03-2002, 04:49 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
I'm not saying this further's my arguments at all, but so far there is only 1 other person besides me that believes a commissioner should not run a team, and as such the arguments have been somewhat lopsided (at last count, about 2 against 14 or 15). I'd like to hear from some team GM's who are neutral on the topic.
I don't think I would make the blanket statement that commishes shouldn't own a team in the league they run, but I wouldn't be an owner in a league I am commissioning. When I started my league I was initially going to run one of the teams, but an experience in another league made me think twice. The commish of this other league guided the Braves to a league-record win total and was ready to start the playoffs (of which I was one of the 8 playoff teams). The commish didn't bother letting me know that the playoffs would be simmed on a "pitch-by-pitch" basis in a chatroom, instead he told another league member to "try and catch me" on AIM to inform me. Well, I didn't think too much of it until I finally got an e-mail telling me that I should be prepared the next day at 4 o'clock in the afternoon (maybe it was 3 pm). Either way it didn't matter, as he was holding the playoffs on a Wednesday afternoon. When I told him that I...um...had to work, as 34-year-old fathers are often known to do during mid-week, he told me that if I didn't take the next day off of work to be there, he would have one of his friends run my team for me (from what I was told, 85% of all online OOTP'ers are "kids" and "students" and are able to stay home and participate in sims during weekdays!!!). The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth in respect to this league. I immediately assumed that there was something shady going on with his friend running my team...I never asked, or accused this commish of cheating, deciding instead to give him the benefit of the doubt. But me even doubting him for a second made me realize that one questionably poor decision could very easily cast doubt on a commish, even if he is a true, honest and fair person. In situations like this, suspicion is usually as good as fact, unfortunately. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you.

I would hate to have an owner think that I am rigging a league in my team's favor. That being said, the leagues I am in are all well run and I don't have doubts about any the trustworthyness of any of the commishes that I deal with in these other leagues.
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Old 09-03-2002, 05:03 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by DiversionX
That is the basis for my being against commissioner's running teams, feel free to slam me for basing this off my experience with 1 league, and feel free to try to sell me on joining your league. After all your comments I'd be more than glad to try out a league where the commissioner does run a team.
I haven't slammed you yet, nor will I ever do that. It serves no purpose other than to make both of us look bad.

The only thing I'd try to sell you on is this. Please try other leagues. Please broaden your horizons. I fully understand where you are coming from based on the bad experience you had. What I don't understand is why you continue to base future experiences on that one bad one. Not every league is like that. Not all people are like that.

Give it a chance......you might surprise yourself.
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Old 09-03-2002, 05:04 PM   #56
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I would also argue that a commish with a team in the league is more likely to retain interest and put more time into the league. When Stacy temporarily stepped down as owner of the Brooklyn franchise in Boys of Summer I was more worried that he might lose some of the interest level in his league and the league would suffer... Everyone in the league wanted him to remain as Brooklyn's owner and not a one of us was the least bit worried about him cheating. Everyone was also pleased when the new Brooklyn owner didn't work out and Stacy came back on as its owner. One can easily spot problem leagues simply by checking the league history. If you have any doubts then move on. The only valid argument against a commish owning a team in a league is cheating, every other argument can be easily refuted with plenty of examples.... If you do your homework in picking an established league you can avoid those headaches, new leagues are more problematic and you may get burnt, just understand that going in...

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Old 09-03-2002, 05:22 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by treedom


...or you could change your name and do it again...
Yes, say you changed your nic from LonghornsNut* to GregMadduxFan, you might get away with it for awhile. However, before long some smart OOTP community members will catch on. Once a loser, always a loser


* Hypothetical example...any similarity to any real person or persons is only imagined in your head.
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Old 09-03-2002, 05:44 PM   #58
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Originally posted by LivnLegend
* Hypothetical example...any similarity to any real person or persons is only imagined in your head.
...of course
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Old 09-03-2002, 05:52 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by LivnLegend


Yes, say you changed your nic from LonghornsNut* to GregMadduxFan, you might get away with it for awhile. However, before long some smart OOTP community members will catch on. Once a loser, always a loser


* Hypothetical example...any similarity to any real person or persons is only imagined in your head.
Quote:
Originally posted by treedom


...of course
Guys, it was clearly proven that in the hypothetical example cited by Legend that LonghornsNut WAS NOT GregMadduxFan, and also DID NOT re-claim the same team in the same league that he was booted out of, and IS NOT currently the commissioner of another league, after lecturing the previous commish about his integrity. Come on guys, I thought you were smarter than that.
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Old 09-03-2002, 06:44 PM   #60
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I've run leagues with FPS, Mogul and now ootp. I've always had a team when I commished each of my 4 leagues.

Not one time in those 7 years have I been accussed of cheating.

If the commish wants to run a successful league he won't cheat.

Why run a online league to cheat, when it would be so easy to do that in a solo league.

My FA claims during the season are made after all others are made.

My fa bids are sent to a neutral person outside the league before I even post the file.

Trades in my league are approved and denied by league prez.

I have a board of 5 owners where we decide to make changes to the league.

I've heard of some commishs cheating, and been in a league where they have cheated. I didn't stay and owners don't stay. It does comes that they have cheated and does scar them for online life. Even if they change their name, habits never change, someone will recognize their technique and call their bluff.

I did run one league where I didn't have a team, wanna know how long that league lasted?...3 seasons before I got tired of it and handed it off.

It is more fun for me to run a league and a team. And league always comes first. why in all my seasons, i've only one title 1 time.

That's my 2 cents.
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