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Old 01-31-2014, 10:42 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by tward13 View Post
This is the smartest thing I've read about the football game. Pick one aspect, current NFL, get it RIGHT, then move on to historical, fictional, other leagues, college in future versions.

Clearly defined. No crazy expectations.
This can't be stressed enough. If for V1 if we ever reach a point where we can make something realistic but at the sake of customization we are going with realism.

Remember we are reaching OOTP15 now, the level of customization OOTP has now wasn't in OOTP1!
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:42 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Francis Cole View Post
The first thing to remember is that V1 will be as realistic as possible, and that will include all the real life cap rules.
By "all the real life cap rules", does this include signing bonuses in addition to regular salary, with the resulting cap hits when players are cut and/or traded? That's such a huge factor in NFL GM behavior these days, but it also seems like a potential bear for AI logic to deal with.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:46 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Cryomaniac View Post
Will it be possible to eventually have each team to have a separate playbook? Especially if you add playable college leagues.
One day, not V1. There a few reasons for this. The main thing is that when player's go from team to team or scheme to scheme we'd have to model that if every team had their own playbook. That's not something I can get 100% right in the time frame for V1.


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If we can't have custom rules (and it doesn't seem like that is ever going to be as possible as in OOTP by your wording), would it at least be possible to have different hard-coded rules sets? The obvious ones would be CFL, Arena League, College and NFL Europa. I have a PDF of custom rules ideas somewhere, which I'm happy to post.
It's a good idea. The problem isn't so much just the rules, because as you suggest it's easier to get a list of the CFL rules/dimensions and the College ones etc. The main problem is the AI has to then be designed around those rules. The AI at the moment is very clear in that it has 4 downs, if we changed that to allow 3 downs ever part of the AI and what plays the AI chooses will have to change.


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That certainly makes sense, but as I said in the FHM beta period, the worry for me is that by doing it in way which is not initially customizable it might make it harder to add customization later.
It may seem strange, but actually it's a bit the other way. If we designed customization first it's a bit trickier to make everything 100% customizable, but if we get things right first we can gradually make each thing customizable as time goes on
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:46 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Francis Cole View Post
This can't be stressed enough. If for V1 if we ever reach a point where we can make something realistic but at the sake of customization we are going with realism.

Remember we are reaching OOTP15 now, the level of customization OOTP has now wasn't in OOTP1!
Does anyone know what sort of customization was in OOTP1?

And also, I've said this elsewhere, but I worry that a lack of customization now may be harder to correct in future versions than if you build a base that can be customized from the off, even if you don't actually include any customization in the first version (i/e you effectively have an "option", but only one choice in v1, with additions later...)
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:48 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Molson View Post
does the Health Scan change as the practice week goes on?

In an online setting will teams need to set an injury report so opposing teams know who will play, might play, won't play?

When can I sign up for beta?
We will of course have Q/P/D/O for a mid-week status, and the health map will show a bit of that. But the main focus of the health map (sorry I couldn't think of a better name ) is to inform you the long term wear and tear of a player.

If you draft a college RB you are probably not that concerned about his fitness that week, you are most certainly interested to know if his knees are completely ruined from a college injury though.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:48 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Ansley View Post
Awesome stuff, congrats Francis and Markus!

I too hope that future releases will incorporate different playbooks for all teams, along with being able to play as historical teams like in OOTP. Great start though.
Thank you. Yes they are planned for the future. But first we must do V1
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:49 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Cryomaniac View Post
I assume he meant NFL Europe, but it's hard to tell with him.
If so then, NFL E will not be in the game for V1 (as it's stopped in real life!).
A few games played in London every season though? Absolutely?!

(please hope that London doesn't get a Franchise before V1 because if so the CBA will have to change slightly and I'll have to redo everything )
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:50 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Francis Cole View Post
It's a good idea. The problem isn't so much just the rules, because as you suggest it's easier to get a list of the CFL rules/dimensions and the College ones etc. The main problem is the AI has to then be designed around those rules. The AI at the moment is very clear in that it has 4 downs, if we changed that to allow 3 downs ever part of the AI and what plays the AI chooses will have to change.
Yeah, I figured the AI would be the issue with "strange" rules (hell, it's still an issue in some bizarre cases in OOTP 14). Obviously for leagues like the CFL and Arena League you can look at real life for some idea of how players / coaches act in certain situations and base the AI on that, but for more esoteric stuff (as you will see when I post that PDF...) it might be a nightmare.

Obviously the other issue is there would need to be separate playbooks for each league.

Regarding historical leagues, it would be nice to have eventually, but that comes back to the issue about different rules.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:51 AM   #69
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By "all the real life cap rules", does this include signing bonuses in addition to regular salary, with the resulting cap hits when players are cut and/or traded? That's such a huge factor in NFL GM behavior these days, but it also seems like a potential bear for AI logic to deal with.
Absolutely. And all of the real life cap rules are already finished! Let's hope they don't change them all before V1 is released
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:53 AM   #70
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Francis is doing such a great job responding to everyone's questions, half of me is just wants you guys to stop, so he can get back to giving us the game faster, but then the other half of me realizes that I would just be wondering the same questions that have already been answered, so thanks to everyone for asking.

Francis, just wanted to say that you are awesome and I cannot wait. I've spent years playing Tom Landry Strategy Football because I couldn't find anything better. Ever since I found out about OOTP, I've been waiting for this day, thanks for making it happen.

There aren't many things that I'd sell my soul to make happen, but this has always been one of them, so thanks for saving my soul.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:53 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Cryomaniac View Post
Does anyone know what sort of customization was in OOTP1?

And also, I've said this elsewhere, but I worry that a lack of customization now may be harder to correct in future versions than if you build a base that can be customized from the off, even if you don't actually include any customization in the first version (i/e you effectively have an "option", but only one choice in v1, with additions later...)
I know it sounds strange. But if we design everything to be customizable now then we will reach a few rules where we can't make it 100% realistic.
I know it doesn't really sound logical, but it is the case.

Doing Realism->Customization is far easier (from my point of view of coding the game!) than the other way around
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:54 AM   #72
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Are you actually able to use real college players names?

I know I'm getting ahead of things, but eventually I'd love to see a college game with a deep recruiting engine. I haven't played EA's NCAA football in a while, but from what I remember they only used player numbers due to licensing issues. Of course, users created named rosters to be used in the game which we would do for your game if necessary as well.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:55 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Cryomaniac View Post

Regarding historical leagues, it would be nice to have eventually, but that comes back to the issue about different rules.
Yes the NFL in the 1920s was basically a completely different game. I'd have to basically do a brand new engine.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:55 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Francis Cole View Post
I know it sounds strange. But if we design everything to be customizable now then we will reach a few rules where we can't make it 100% realistic.
I know it doesn't really sound logical, but it is the case.

Doing Realism->Customization is far easier (from my point of view of coding the game!) than the other way around
Fair enough. I'm also a programmer, albeit an unemployed one, and I find the way I suggested more intuitive. Everyone works differently though, and I think in terms of rule sets for this your way probably makes more sense.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:56 AM   #75
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Francis is doing such a great job responding to everyone's questions, half of me is just wants you guys to stop, so he can get back to giving us the game faster, but then the other half of me realizes that I would just be wondering the same questions that have already been answered, so thanks to everyone for asking.

Francis, just wanted to say that you are awesome and I cannot wait. I've spent years playing Tom Landry Strategy Football because I couldn't find anything better. Ever since I found out about OOTP, I've been waiting for this day, thanks for making it happen.

There aren't many things that I'd sell my soul to make happen, but this has always been one of them, so thanks for saving my soul.
Thank you
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:57 AM   #76
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Are you actually able to use real college players names?

That is the plan. I think OOTP uses college player's names?
Obviously we'll be creating new college players as well though because people will play a few in the future and researching all the current HS players would be impossible!!
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:02 AM   #77
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This is the PDF I was on about. As I say, it is (intentionally) excessively esoteric in terms of options (because I'm a bit nuts...) and I make no claims that it would be even possible to write AI for some of the more bizarre combinations. As it says at the end of this document, it can be used by anyone for any legal purpose.
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File Type: pdf football ideas.pdf (80.3 KB, 214 views)
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:02 AM   #78
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That is the plan. I think OOTP uses college player's names?
Obviously we'll be creating new college players as well though because people will play a few in the future and researching all the current HS players would be impossible!!

There may be a licensing distinction between using college names for a professional league in the player's future, as opposed to using their name in a college game of their present. Maybe the professional league owns the rights to their name in the hypothetical future.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:07 AM   #79
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There may be a licensing distinction between using college names for a professional league in the player's future, as opposed to using their name in a college game of their present. Maybe the professional league owns the rights to their name in the hypothetical future.
Names in themselves shouldn't be an issue. The issue in O'Bannon v. NCCA was Likeness, which is legally distinct from just a name.
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Old 01-31-2014, 11:21 AM   #80
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Names in themselves shouldn't be an issue. The issue in O'Bannon v. NCCA was Likeness, which is legally distinct from just a name.
Thanks. I was just thinking about this in the shower and came back to post.

Producing a college game probably isn't nearly as daunting from a roster perspective as one might imagine. You can literally just make every player fictional. That's what EA does (or claims to do). I wouldn't even bother trying to make them similar to their real human counterparts. You only would open yourself up to a suit, and users will create the rosters for download anyway. All that's needed for a college franchise is a tweaked game engine from this, and a deep recruiting engine. A few other minor things like schedule creation and redahirting, etc...
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