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Old 05-14-2016, 03:04 PM   #21
Krillo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Winter View Post
We haven't really thought much about player development yet. Obviously this is a very important issue, but also quite a difficult one. My basic thoughts are those:


A player's physical tools are pretty much fixed once he comes out of college. Players might be able to get somewhat more athletic by spending more time in the weight room, but apart from that there is not a whole lot that is going to change. So the combine results pretty much tell the story about a player's athleticism. Physical abilities can then only change for the worse due to age, injuries, or being overused (just think bell-cow running backs).


So what it really comes down to is a player's ability to learn his position (role) at the NFL level and his ability/willingness to improve/refine his technical abilities, e.g. QBs being able to correct their throwing motion. Work ethics and intelligence factor a lot into the equation here and in reality, it is a big challenge to get to know these thing prior to drafting a player.So what this boils down to is that there probably won't be any scripts as suggested. Instead, players with high potential are those who have enough physical ability to play their position and display good work ethics, a high level of intelligence and are willing to listen to their coaches. The challenge for human users and the AI will be to identify these players and then draft them according to their draft board.
Okey i hear you on that. But i would still love some "missed players" on the draft and stuff like that. Like in real life when low rounders or undrafted player surprises over the years and become stars. So its sounds more like a scouting thing you guys have to figure out. I don't know what other gamers think on the draft and player dynamics but for me its a crucial part, and something that could develop a lot in OOTP and FHM. The fact that it probably wont be any international players in BTS at lest of big impact, it will be even more important in BTS according to me
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Old 05-15-2016, 04:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Krillo View Post
Okey i hear you on that. But i would still love some "missed players" on the draft and stuff like that. Like in real life when low rounders or undrafted player surprises over the years and become stars.
I think it will still be possible with the system described. A player could be average physically but with high intelligence, work ethic and coaching could be developed into a star. If the user and AI overlook this player because of his average athleticism, it is likely he'll be drafted late or be an undrafted free agent.
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Old 05-16-2016, 02:19 PM   #23
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Yes, I would assume late-round steals should be very much possible. The major issue is to make sure that work ethics, intelligence and the willingness to listen to your coaches play an important role in player development. If this information is difficult to obtain and if the scouting resources are limited, then you should be able to find some hidden gems late in the draft and amongst the undrafted rookies.
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:59 AM   #24
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As a GM you will have to set up your own draft board prior to the draft. Then you have to manage the draft in such a way that you get the players you want at a reasonable price. I always consider draft picks to be vouchers and the draft is basically a shopping center where customers take turns. If you spend a $100 voucher on a player who according to your draft board is only worth $50, then you basically waste the other 50 bucks. So trading up and down is necessary to make sure that you get maximum value out of your picks, at least according to your own draft board. Teams still draft for need but nowadays they try really hard not to waste part of the value of their picks. From next year on they can even trade compensatory picks. I kind of wonder what this is going to do to free agency, since these compensatory picks will be of increased value.

I love the idea of having to set up your own draft board beforehand.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:03 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by jwarner View Post
Thanks for all the feedback Michael.

One thing about mock drafts though: they're a great way of understanding the general consensus on where a player will probably be drafted. I can set up my own board, but when it comes down to it I might choose guys based on whether I think they'll go soon or might go later. For example, if I have a highly rated guy on my board that's available in the 4th round but most mocks put him in the 6th, I might choose someone else this round and snag him in the 5th.

Does that make sense? It's certainly not a deal breaker, but I think it adds some interest and strategy to the draft and can make for some interesting emergent stories like Aaron Rodgers (or Laremy Tunsil, haha).

That's the point. You're not supposed to know where a guy will go. You have to just get a sense for how valuable YOU think he is, and hope it works out. If you knew exactly where every guy would be drafted, then it would take away from the skill of drafting.

The only thing that MIGHT be a consideration is giving a guy a talent range (and even that's a big if). For instance, labeling a guy a 2nd/3rd round talent who might be snagged in the 1st or 4th might not be awful, but even so, that's too specific. I love the idea of having no clue who will be great, like Michael's "fog of war" idea.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:37 AM   #26
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That's the point. You're not supposed to know where a guy will go. You have to just get a sense for how valuable YOU think he is, and hope it works out. If you knew exactly where every guy would be drafted, then it would take away from the skill of drafting.

The only thing that MIGHT be a consideration is giving a guy a talent range (and even that's a big if). For instance, labeling a guy a 2nd/3rd round talent who might be snagged in the 1st or 4th might not be awful, but even so, that's too specific. I love the idea of having no clue who will be great, like Michael's "fog of war" idea.
I wasn't saying we'd know exactly when a guy is going to go. I'm just saying to look at real life - mock drafts and "expert" prognosticators are a huge part of the draft process, and while it's obvious that teams create their own draft board (I'm a 49ers fan, it's obvious our GM doesn't care at all what anyone else thinks about the talent level of the draftees) and stick to it, I think it's also obvious that the mock draft boards and player rankings do play SOME role in the actual draft. The late rounds are more of a crap shoot, but guys like McShay and Kiper and the rest do a pretty decent job of figuring out who the top prospects are and who will go in the first couple of rounds.

Having general "1st-2nd round" grades on players has no effect on whether they'll be good or not, and doesn't preclude the possibility of first round busts or late round steals - it just states where the general consensus is on how good a player could be.

In fact, my argument is that it makes the draft process more entertaining. Say a guy that was thought to be a 6th round talent goes in the second - everybody goes WTF? But then the guy blows up and the GM looks like a genius. Same for an Aaron Rodgers story going the other way - widely seen as a candidate for the first pick, drops to late in the first round, turns out to be way better than Alex Smith. That narrative adds a lot to a game, giving it a more realistic feel than just making your board and picking guys when your turn comes up.

It makes the game more fun in my opinion, as it adds a layer of strategy that you don't get if everyone's going in blind.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarner View Post
I wasn't saying we'd know exactly when a guy is going to go. I'm just saying to look at real life - mock drafts and "expert" prognosticators are a huge part of the draft process, and while it's obvious that teams create their own draft board (I'm a 49ers fan, it's obvious our GM doesn't care at all what anyone else thinks about the talent level of the draftees) and stick to it, I think it's also obvious that the mock draft boards and player rankings do play SOME role in the actual draft. The late rounds are more of a crap shoot, but guys like McShay and Kiper and the rest do a pretty decent job of figuring out who the top prospects are and who will go in the first couple of rounds.

Having general "1st-2nd round" grades on players has no effect on whether they'll be good or not, and doesn't preclude the possibility of first round busts or late round steals - it just states where the general consensus is on how good a player could be.

In fact, my argument is that it makes the draft process more entertaining. Say a guy that was thought to be a 6th round talent goes in the second - everybody goes WTF? But then the guy blows up and the GM looks like a genius. Same for an Aaron Rodgers story going the other way - widely seen as a candidate for the first pick, drops to late in the first round, turns out to be way better than Alex Smith. That narrative adds a lot to a game, giving it a more realistic feel than just making your board and picking guys when your turn comes up.

It makes the game more fun in my opinion, as it adds a layer of strategy that you don't get if everyone's going in blind.
I can see both sides of this. It might be fun to add as an entertainment feature but I don't think it's essential to drafting. We will have scouts and that's who we have to rely on which is the way the real NFL works. If you go with your scouts, you won't be going in blind. So, in that regard, it's more realistic not to have mock draft results.

Maybe a feature for a later release.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:20 PM   #28
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This may have been already asked, but will there be the opportunity to set a college league up to go along with the professional league?

I know in baseball a lot of kids are drafted out of high school or signed from other countries. There is a player development system in place that meshes real well with the OOTP format.

Professional football has pretty much a single source for players, and that of course is college. If the college system was a part of the process of BTS, you could get a real feel of what the scouts do go through.

I also know there is talk in the NFL putting together a development league similar to what the NBA is doing. The college game has become so far removed from the pro game that owners and coaches are scrambling to get NFL ready players. There was a real good article a month or two ago in SI about this. I suppose that system could be worked into BTS.
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Old 05-24-2016, 03:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by fortius54 View Post
This may have been already asked, but will there be the opportunity to set a college league up to go along with the professional league?

I know in baseball a lot of kids are drafted out of high school or signed from other countries. There is a player development system in place that meshes real well with the OOTP format.

Professional football has pretty much a single source for players, and that of course is college. If the college system was a part of the process of BTS, you could get a real feel of what the scouts do go through.

I also know there is talk in the NFL putting together a development league similar to what the NBA is doing. The college game has become so far removed from the pro game that owners and coaches are scrambling to get NFL ready players. There was a real good article a month or two ago in SI about this. I suppose that system could be worked into BTS.

A college system of some sort will be in the first version of the game because it is essential for the draft. Developmental leagues certainly won't because they currently don't even exist. I don't think they will become reality anytime soon because of injury liability.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:17 AM   #30
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I come down on the side of the developer on this one. The 'expert' opinions of Kiper, McShay et. al. are based on their discusions with GMs, coaches etc. Information flows that way not the other way around. I believe most orgs. look at college tapes first then combine scores a distant second when making decision. In between there is an assessment of the player's character.

Last edited by bradko; 05-27-2016 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 12-17-2016, 09:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Krillo View Post
Okey i hear you on that. But i would still love some "missed players" on the draft and stuff like that. Like in real life when low rounders or undrafted player surprises over the years and become stars. So its sounds more like a scouting thing you guys have to figure out. I don't know what other gamers think on the draft and player dynamics but for me its a crucial part, and something that could develop a lot in OOTP and FHM. The fact that it probably wont be any international players in BTS at lest of big impact, it will be even more important in BTS according to me
I'm pretty sure there will be players that drop. Just hoping for a talent randomizer.
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Old 01-07-2017, 04:42 PM   #32
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Could probably just largely borrow the draft code from OOTP. And allow the draft to go pick by pick. There's this one game where it blasts all the picks at once until it's your turn to draft, which is annoying.

Also important to have a good system of live draft pick trading. In previous games, I traded draft picks manually based on trades that could make sense for both teams given the lack of an in-built system.

And GM's do pay attention to mock drafts, even the ones by Kiper and McShay and Walter Football. It's all about looking for as much info as possible and would be a cool addition to the game.
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Old 01-10-2017, 08:42 AM   #33
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I am hoping to see draft pick trading (and offers) while the draft is ongoing. If not, it's a major drawback. It's one of the biggest issues FOF has had for years.
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