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Old 11-13-2019, 01:20 PM   #101
Orcin
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Originally Posted by Argonaut View Post
For PT 3.0 there should be some sort of minor league system (maybe 1 AAA team) where you can train up your unused players for a variety of tournaments.
For PT 3.0, the players should not be able to learn new positions at all. Just my opinion.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:28 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by OMGPuppies View Post
Which Jr.? I voted for training. Spent a ton of PP under the assumption that we could train.
Gold 89 Griffey plays a good RF.

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Originally Posted by Orcin View Post
For PT 3.0, the players should not be able to learn new positions at all. Just my opinion.
That's another interesting option I would be OK with. Brings some more value to utility players who come with extra training out of the box.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:31 PM   #103
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For PT 3.0, the players should not be able to learn new positions at all. Just my opinion.
Totally agree on this.
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Old 11-13-2019, 01:41 PM   #104
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For PT 3.0, the players should not be able to learn new positions at all. Just my opinion.
A significant bunch of older historical cards have defensive ratings so atrocious they are basically unplayable at their given position, say, CF, but can be made borderline palatable in LF f.e.;

Instead you might end up with several cards for a player like Ernie Banks that are all terrible. A slugging shortstop that can barely field, or a so-so first baseman that isn't a top-tier bat anymore. I want to move that shortstop to first base and have the best of both worlds.

This proposal also seems to address a problem that shouldn't exist because it should have been rooted out during testing.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:02 PM   #105
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If we're going to allow player actions to change cards, why stop with positional training? Let's fully embrace our inner RPG and add coaches that further alter our card attributes.

Want your cards to hit more home runs? Hire a batting coach who will train them up on the science of launch angles! Want them to make smarter decisions on the base paths? Hire a 3B coach to train them on the fine art of base running!

Better yet, forget buying players off the auction house. Let's make it so we instead buy the specific attributes, allowing us to make the players we've always wanted in a unique OOT(r)P(g) character creation screen!



Obviously, I jest. I actually see arguments both for and against allowing positional training. However, the fact is that allowing the actions of players to alter otherwise static cards does not set a consistent tone, as it is at odds with every other aspect of PT.
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Old 11-13-2019, 02:07 PM   #106
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Live cards changed constantly for six months. Those coaches are there, we're just not paying them, and some them are outright terrible indeed. You can also change a pitcher's stuff rating by sending him to the pen. Those cards are anything but static.

I'm all in for card meddling as long as I don't have to hold hands with Mike Trout after every game when he's batting .165, Football Manager style.
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1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

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Old 11-13-2019, 02:29 PM   #107
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Live cards changed constantly for six months. Those coaches are there, we're just not paying them, and some them are outright terrible indeed. You can also change a pitcher's stuff rating by sending him to the pen. Those cards are anything but static.

I'm all in for card meddling as long as I don't have to hold hands with Mike Trout after every game when he's batting .165, Football Manager style.
First of all, Live cards did not change anything other than their primary attributes. Defense, base running, stamina... All of the ratings we have for these categories on Live cards are based on projections and have nothing to do with play during the 2019 season. When we combine the percentage of static ratings on live cards with ALL the ratings on ALL the historic cards, there's not much that changes in this game at all. And even for the changes that do occur, they are out of our control (unless you're secretly a MLB player and not telling us...)

Additionally, Stuff is indeed static. The only choice we make that affects them is the roles in which we allow them to be used (relief, either from the bullpen or allowing starters to enter games in relief). This change is directly tied to their use, an aspect of the game we do not control as there are no in game management functions. The closest we can come other than placing a starter in the pen is to set their position. This changes their displayed rating, but nothing more than what is displayed. It has zero bearing on the actual ratings and performance of the card.

Positional training is the ONLY change we can make to cards. Everything else is fully controlled by either game mechanics, on field player performance, or a mix of the two.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:16 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Dogberry99 View Post
If we're going to allow player actions to change cards, why stop with positional training? Let's fully embrace our inner RPG and add coaches that further alter our card attributes.

Want your cards to hit more home runs? Hire a batting coach who will train them up on the science of launch angles! Want them to make smarter decisions on the base paths? Hire a 3B coach to train them on the fine art of base running!

Better yet, forget buying players off the auction house. Let's make it so we instead buy the specific attributes, allowing us to make the players we've always wanted in a unique OOT(r)P(g) character creation screen!

Obviously, I jest. I actually see arguments both for and against allowing positional training. However, the fact is that allowing the actions of players to alter otherwise static cards does not set a consistent tone, as it is at odds with every other aspect of PT.
Chemistry styles are one of the worst parts of ultimate team for that reason. No point in making cards different when you can just choose to boost up the weak points and end up with them all looking the same.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:26 PM   #109
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A significant bunch of older historical cards have defensive ratings so atrocious they are basically unplayable at their given position, say, CF, but can be made borderline palatable in LF f.e.;

Instead you might end up with several cards for a player like Ernie Banks that are all terrible. A slugging shortstop that can barely field, or a so-so first baseman that isn't a top-tier bat anymore. I want to move that shortstop to first base and have the best of both worlds.
Maybe the answer then is to work on the algorithm that assigns defensive ratings if older historical cards are systematically atrocious on defense. But if you are talking about the top levels of the game there are like two dozen different position player cards that get played anyway, everything else is unplayable there but has a place in lower levels.

I'll ignore your specific example since Ernie Banks was elite on offense and defense while he played SS (and his peak SE card is way under-statted), but for a single season card if a player was a slugging shortstop who could barely field then why shouldn't his card also be a slugging shortstop who can barely field?

In theory the market would work itself out and price cards based on their overall value (although collection demand would play a big impact)
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Old 11-13-2019, 04:21 PM   #110
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I propose a compromise between "all training allowed" and "no training allowed." What if fielding skill ratings were based on that year's fielding stats, like they are now, but position experience were fixed based on career games played, possibly in a weighted average with games played that year? So, Cal Ripken, Jr. and Alex Rodriguez could play both 3B and SS, which is "realistic" even if they only played one at a time, but they couldn't be trained up at 2B, 1B, or corner outfield, which are "unrealistic" because they never played there.

I feel like this would let more players back up more positions and give us the flexibility needed to field a PT/tournament team with fewer than 16 position players, while still respecting the historical facts of what positions everyone played. I think we need some concession to the fact that almost all of the (historical) cards are for star players who held the starting job at a single position, so there are extremely few quality utility players, and I think sticking to the historical stats would satisfy more traditionalists than the current system of training (even though many of us have learned to make good use of it).
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:27 PM   #111
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I propose a compromise between "all training allowed" and "no training allowed." What if fielding skill ratings were based on that year's fielding stats, like they are now, but position experience were fixed based on career games played, possibly in a weighted average with games played that year? So, Cal Ripken, Jr. and Alex Rodriguez could play both 3B and SS, which is "realistic" even if they only played one at a time, but they couldn't be trained up at 2B, 1B, or corner outfield, which are "unrealistic" because they never played there.
I would be really happy with position ratings based on career games played and actual performance at those positions.
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:30 PM   #112
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My pleb team knocked out one of dkgo's in the first round of a silver tournament. That shall be my victory for today.

I have yet to win a dime in tournaments ... then again, I only do this with two teams, since the Accountants don't have the card base to really enter anything but maybe wild-west, completely-open tournaments with their standard roster.
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1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

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Old 11-13-2019, 09:19 PM   #113
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Bring it, Magpies! We're not afraid. Raccoons break open pies like stone breaks scissors!
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Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:28 PM   #114
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Told ya!

That's actually gonna be my first payout. The Coons are guaranteed the princely sum of *100 PP* ...!
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Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

Last edited by Westheim; 11-13-2019 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:36 PM   #115
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For PT 3.0, the players should not be able to learn new positions at all. Just my opinion.

I agree. I can take great fielder and make him a genius at all the infield positions. That's not creating interesting decisions.
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:32 PM   #116
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maybe just 8 position slots on the reserve roster (one for each position in the field) that you can slide a player into and they gain experience at that position at the same rate they would if they were playing on the active roster.... sort of like spring training/AAA team, but just not require actual games to sim for it.... just a thought....
I like this idea because it avoids the problem of having your players go into the PT wilds to compete with other teams as they gain positional experience. I think of the potential new feature like having a rice cooker you can use to pop a card into and, after a certain period of time, the card comes out as cooked rice so to speak.

This idea has a lot of merit, imo.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:38 AM   #117
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Came 2nd in a bronze tournament and won a standard pack. This might be my crowning achievement on PT, so I am well chuffed. Yeah the pack was 5 LS irons and a LS bronze, but still, delighted with that.

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Old 11-14-2019, 07:48 AM   #118
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Won the tournament above, and two more for a total of 1k PP and a gold pack over night. The pack was Devers AND Miguel Sano, so I declare myself a winner!

My 1750-cap concept of using my three historical perfect SP, a couple high diamond bats, select few silvers (Ron Reed, Merv Rettenmund) and bronzes (Aparicio, Carew and others) in strategic locations, and filling the rest with the Pretzel Pezzullos of the world worked at least at the first attempt as the Coons romped through that tournament, 11-2. Pezzullo never pitched, and then pen only pitched like 16 innings in total.
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1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.
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Old 11-14-2019, 07:52 PM   #119
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A couple more wins overnight...diamond pack #2 (and 500 PP lol), come to me!

My Open tourney team is really doing better than expected against some whales...defeated the Colorado Lions, Cleveland Spartans, and Ann Arbor Space Cadets among others. My early observation is most of these whale teams are not paying much attention to positional training not transferring over right now. Giving me a nice advantage there.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:03 PM   #120
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Here's an idea:

In the list of signed up teams for a tournament, show the number of times a team has won a tournament of the exact same type. Took down a diamond pack in the 128 man Super Bronze today, would be cool to see if the other previous winners are in iteration #6.
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