Trading for ootp 18

[WyattGOAT]

The one thing that really bothers me this year is the whole trading process. For example, I will offer a decent prospect (ranked 77 out of 100 according to the game) at the trade deadline to the braves who are rebuilding and are 15 games under .500. All I ask for in return is Erick Aybar who has a half a year left on his deal and serves no long-term purpose with the braves. In real life, this is a no brainer. Since the braves are rebuilding and won't be competing any time soon, trade an old and expensive veteran who most likely won't be on the team next year for a decent prospect. WRONG! They wouldn't even take the deal if I threw in my next best three prospects. I understand if it's a team like the Cubs and they are trying to win it all next year, but the Braves have no reason to keep a half season of Aybar when they can get legit prospects for him. I feel the cpu teams have no context for trades, they don't know the difference if they are trying to buy or trying to sell. Teams need to understand where they stand. This seems like a simple coding fix but what do I know? Another suggestion is when I shop a player I have the ability to shop more than 1 at the same time and get offers that aren't just one player. For example if I'm the Blue Jays I can shop Donaldson and Bautista at the same time and get an offer from a team like the Dodgers for two other players like Urias and Bellinger. That way it doesn't have to always be 1 for 1. Another cool add to the trading system would be having some sort of discussion with the opposing GM. I put out Donaldson on the trade block and I get a personal message saying Brian Cashman is interested. He then says I'm willing to give up the prospects of _____, _______, and ________. I can say throw in this or take away and this. A much more interactive experience. I see myself on the trade block way more than any other part of the game and it disappoints me to see it be so black and white and not at all realistic. That being said, I have confidence changes will be made. I have bought OOTP for three years straight now and I don't plan on stopping any time soon!

[mangelo33]

With trade difficulty set to normal, other teams asking prices are nowhere near reasonable, if you set trade difficulty to easy (the next option) asking prices aren't high enough. Find some middle ground please!

[mitchkenn]

how about the ability to tell the other GM what you really think of his trade offer. I get "This is an insult", or things along those lines when i toss something "creative", but when some other GM asks for a 1927 Babe Ruth plus $3000 for Joe Scrub pitcher in his late 30's - all i can do is reject it. Maybe a couple other drop downs in that menu to say: "Call me back when i quit laughing" or at least more than just "this trade has been rejected."

[thehef]

Originally Posted by mitchkenn

how about the ability to tell the other GM what you really think of his trade offer. I get "This is an insult", or things along those lines when i toss something "creative", but when some other GM asks for a 1927 Babe Ruth plus $3000 for Joe Scrub pitcher in his late 30's - all i can do is reject it. Maybe a couple other drop downs in that menu to say: "Call me back when i quit laughing" or at least more than just "this trade has been rejected."

I haven't played OOTP with trades on in years, although I just fooled around with it now. That said, the replies you get from the AI GM can be useful in letting you know how close or far away you are from making a deal. So implementing mitchekenn's suggestion would be a good one if it serves the purpose of having the AI GM consider sweetening the offer if the human GM indicates that it's close to being acceptable... and so forth.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by WyattGOAT

The one thing that really bothers me this year is the whole trading process. For example, I will offer a decent prospect (ranked 77 out of 100 according to the game) at the trade deadline to the braves who are rebuilding and are 15 games under .500. All I ask for in return is Erick Aybar who has a half a year left on his deal and serves no long-term purpose with the braves. In real life, this is a no brainer. Since the braves are rebuilding and won't be competing any time soon, trade an old and expensive veteran who most likely won't be on the team next year for a decent prospect. WRONG! They wouldn't even take the deal if I threw in my next best three prospects. I understand if it's a team like the Cubs and they are trying to win it all next year, but the Braves have no reason to keep a half season of Aybar when they can get legit prospects for him. I feel the cpu teams have no context for trades, they don't know the difference if they are trying to buy or trying to sell. Teams need to understand where they stand. This seems like a simple coding fix but what do I know? Another suggestion is when I shop a player I have the ability to shop more than 1 at the same time and get offers that aren't just one player. For example if I'm the Blue Jays I can shop Donaldson and Bautista at the same time and get an offer from a team like the Dodgers for two other players like Urias and Bellinger. That way it doesn't have to always be 1 for 1. Another cool add to the trading system would be having some sort of discussion with the opposing GM. I put out Donaldson on the trade block and I get a personal message saying Brian Cashman is interested. He then says I'm willing to give up the prospects of _____, _______, and ________. I can say throw in this or take away and this. A much more interactive experience. I see myself on the trade block way more than any other part of the game and it disappoints me to see it be so black and white and not at all realistic. That being said, I have confidence changes will be made. I have bought OOTP for three years straight now and I don't plan on stopping any time soon!

To piggyback. Rebuilding ai's never try to dump their top players for prospects. I understand that some guys are pieces a team wants to build around but Aybar is a solid example. The ai should be trying to dump that player for prospects. I feel the human player always has to initiate that sort of deal. Furthermore, the ai needs to learn not to trade within division. In my dynasty league I often see two teams who are neck in neck in the division standings pull off a move. That just doesn't mimic real life at all.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Hrycaj

... Furthermore, the ai needs to learn not to trade within division. In my dynasty league I often see two teams who are neck in neck in the division standings pull off a move. That just doesn't mimic real life at all.

I agree with most of what's been requested in this thread, but not this. First of all, it does happen in real life, maybe not as frequently as it should, but it does. And second of all, if the deal helps both teams trading from an area of surplus to an area of need then why not make a trade within the division? It'll still make both teams stronger against the majority of their rivals. The only reason for not making inter-divisional trades as far as I can tell is if one is scared that they'll be hurt more by the players they're trading away than the players they're getting will help them. And if that's the case, that it's a net loss, then you probably shouldn't make the trade regardless of the division the other team is in. While it might often be more beneficial to make a trade with a team in another division (you'll be improving yourself while not helping a rival), it is possible that the best deal is with a team in the same division.

[Hrycaj]

Originally Posted by kq76

I agree with most of what's been requested in this thread, but not this. First of all, it does happen in real life, maybe not as frequently as it should, but it does. And second of all, if the deal helps both teams trading from an area of surplus to an area of need then why not make a trade within the division? It'll still make both teams stronger against the majority of their rivals. The only reason for not making inter-divisional trades as far as I can tell is if one is scared that they'll be hurt more by the players they're trading away than the players they're getting will help them. And if that's the case, that it's a net loss, then you probably shouldn't make the trade regardless of the division the other team is in. While it might often be more beneficial to make a trade with a team in another division (you'll be improving yourself while not helping a rival), it is possible that the best deal is with a team in the same division.

You are right. I was definitely speaking in generalities this morning and I should know better. Inter division trades absolutely happen.

Milwaukee - Baseball Prospectus

The above article suggests that trades within the division happen about 10% of the time since 1998. The article was written on Sept. 9th 2015. So a pretty good amount of data. So it was definitely an inaccurate statement on my part.

I guess I question the logic of the trades I'm seeing in my fictional league. EX: If a team that is in "win now" mode trades within the division with a "rebuilding" team for their best player(s) to push them over the top I would understand that. Rebuild team gets the prospects and the win now team makes the playoff push. That I think is what is not being replicated in OOTP whether you have on "favor prospects" in the settings or not.

Without doing deeper research, which is probably what I need to do, I don't think 2 clubs that are 1.5 games out in the standings are going to trade with each other in the same division. Especially, when they trade for the same type of player that doesn't make either team any better. I realize that is a subjective viewpoint, I'm not an OOTP expert, I just find myself continually trying to understand trade logic with the ai.

[IStillDream]

Conversely, teams that are in the cellar shouldn't be trading for stars on 1 year deals. In my 2017 season (2015 start), I got an analogous deadline trade by the Yankees of Aroldis Chapman for multiple prospects to what happened with the Cubs in real life, except it was to the Blue Jays, who were in dead last, 20 games out, while the Yankees were in the Wild Card hunt. The next day the Jays did the same thing for Mark Melancon, who was also on a one year deal. Neither were extended and both signed elsewhere in the offseason.

[BigRed75]

Originally Posted by IStillDream

Conversely, teams that are in the cellar shouldn't be trading for stars on 1 year deals. In my 2017 season (2015 start), I got an analogous deadline trade by the Yankees of Aroldis Chapman for multiple prospects to what happened with the Cubs in real life, except it was to the Blue Jays, who were in dead last, 20 games out, while the Yankees were in the Wild Card hunt. The next day the Jays did the same thing for Mark Melancon, who was also on a one year deal. Neither were extended and both signed elsewhere in the offseason.

Yeah, I had the Yankees take on a bunch of salary at the deadline when they were in last place with the second worst record in the league. I was surprised when they then signed one of those players, Jonathan Lucroy, to an extension the next month. It struck me as a rational and well thought out move, even though they had signed Cervelli to a nine-figure deal the offseason before, because Cervelli was stinking up the joint worse than he did in his first time in the Bronx. But then my faith was restored when they traded Lucroy away four months later (to the Rangers, no less!) for the pu-pu platter.

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by WyattGOAT

The one thing that really bothers me this year is the whole trading process. For example, I will offer a decent prospect (ranked 77 out of 100 according to the game) at the trade deadline to the braves who are rebuilding and are 15 games under .500. All I ask for in return is Erick Aybar who has a half a year left on his deal and serves no long-term purpose with the braves. In real life, this is a no brainer. Since the braves are rebuilding and won't be competing any time soon, trade an old and expensive veteran who most likely won't be on the team next year for a decent prospect. WRONG! They wouldn't even take the deal if I threw in my next best three prospects. I understand if it's a team like the Cubs and they are trying to win it all next year, but the Braves have no reason to keep a half season of Aybar when they can get legit prospects for him. I feel the cpu teams have no context for trades, they don't know the difference if they are trying to buy or trying to sell. Teams need to understand where they stand. This seems like a simple coding fix but what do I know? Another suggestion is when I shop a player I have the ability to shop more than 1 at the same time and get offers that aren't just one player. For example if I'm the Blue Jays I can shop Donaldson and Bautista at the same time and get an offer from a team like the Dodgers for two other players like Urias and Bellinger. That way it doesn't have to always be 1 for 1. Another cool add to the trading system would be having some sort of discussion with the opposing GM. I put out Donaldson on the trade block and I get a personal message saying Brian Cashman is interested. He then says I'm willing to give up the prospects of _____, _______, and ________. I can say throw in this or take away and this. A much more interactive experience. I see myself on the trade block way more than any other part of the game and it disappoints me to see it be so black and white and not at all realistic. That being said, I have confidence changes will be made. I have bought OOTP for three years straight now and I don't plan on stopping any time soon!

This is quite possibly the most important update they could make for OOTP 18

[Griever20]

I feel like if we continue with the basic trade system that we have right now, there are twothings that need tweaking.

Examples done with

Trading Difficulty: Hard
Standard Player Evaluation AI Settings

1. The 'focus' of the teams at a given time/deadline.

Your example

I got an analogous deadline trade by the Yankees of Aroldis Chapman for multiple prospects to what happened with the Cubs in real life, except it was to the Blue Jays, who were in dead last, 20 games out, while the Yankees were in the Wild Card hunt.

seems to be just one of many times where the AI does trades that make no sense for both teams, and I feel that the system "Win now" - "Neutral" - "Rebuild" is a.) too universal and b.) does not change as it should be with the record over the season.

Adding something like "Rebuild" - "Retool" - "Stand Pat" - "Looking to add" - "Win Now" to broaden the range of 'neutral' would be my suggestion, and make moves towards "Retool" or "Looking to add" more frequent as "Neutral" tends to generate stupid moves.

2. Player Evaluation in trade talks with AI
Is kinda linked with 1., but has his own problems. It always seems that the AI acts like 95% of your players are total crap, even if they are well performing MLB players with a good track record and decent scouting ratings. Try to sell or even dump a guy like that, once the player has reached arbitration or has a contract exceeding the minimum, the AI would not even trade a 24-year old non-prospect rotting in rookie ball for your player, let alone offering at least a fringe prospect.

Example:
James Shields(32, 3.5*, 8-6 3.95 101K 19GS 2.3WAR) 2y/$14.22M deal
$1M to cover his salary

for Boston(Win now!)
Ryan Kiel(27, 0.5*, has pitched 5 innings in R ball with a 7.20ERA)

Shields would be the second best pitcher on their staff according to my scouting department and the OSA...

Same goes for acquiring MLB players. A rebuilding team should be willing to trade away every MLB that has won't be around in 2(if age >30) to 4(if age > 28) years due to the fact that those guys won't be around for their next run.

Now, try to acquire

SP Edwin Jackson(30, 2.5*, 1-6 4.84 69K 19GS 0.3ERA) on a 3y/$33M deal from the Cubs.

Offered
SP Marcus Stroman(23, 2/4*)
LF D.J. Davis(21, 1.5/4* HS, 2/4* OSA)

Reaction:
MLB Players
Kennedy, 29, one more year of team control, probably comparable to Jackson, why do they want him?
The rest : a.) why should a team that wants to win now give them up and b.) those guys have at most four years of team control, so they would make sense for a 'retooling' team, not a rebuilding team in my book...

[Lukas Berger]

Good post overall, but a big issue with the Shields trade is that Boston doesn't have the money for Shields.

They have less than $2 mil in their budget and even with the $1 mil you're offering that still leaves them around $4 mil short, and that's just for this year. They may also not want his salary for next year.

[Lukas Berger]

Never mind, I spoke too soon. I see the budget is actually ok!

Next year's salary may still be an issue though...

[Griever20]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Good post overall, but a big issue with the Shields trade is that Boston doesn't have the money for Shields.

They have less than $2 mil in their budget and even with the $1 mil you're offering that still leaves them around $4 mil short, and that's just for this year. They may also not want his salary for next year.

Which is a good point i did not think about, but they have $57.162M left for extensions and even if I add $5M, the needle does not change .

Example 2:
Add $7M of cash, edited out the second year on his deal:

Example 3:
Edited his 2013 salary to the minimum $490k

For good measure, the same deal with PHI:

Example 4:
Getting the reliever for $1M in cash and nothing else

PS: Remeber me to fire my Assistant GM for this
"This is not too bad" comment...

Also, I do not even get one offer when shopping him around, which seems a bit weird even on hard difficulty.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is game breaking, but it seems a bit odd and can be rather frustrating for a player trying to sell off their veterans that 'should' have value :P

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Griever20

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is game breaking, but it seems a bit odd and can be rather frustrating for a player trying to sell off their veterans that 'should' have value :P

Hmm, yeah that's definitely odd.

You'd think they'd jump all over the deal without the second year on his contract and with the cash to cover this year's salary.

[Griever20]

Of course, would be interesting if others can replicate that, could be a weird setting as this is a converted OOTP 12 league

[Markus Heinsohn]

Interesting, I'd need those league files and run it through the debug mode to see what screws up the AI here...

[Griever20]

FTP'ed the league files as Tortry.lg.zip, hope that does not turn out as a huge waste of time.

I played around with the Trading Difficulty a bit. On very easy and easy, I'm even able to get the #12 prospect in baseball from the Red Sox for Shields, once I go for average trading difficulty, they don't want Shields at all.

[Griever20]

To wrap things up, that would be their GM:

[T-Bone]

I don't know how difficult it is to code, and maybe I am over-simplifying, but any rebuilding team should be more than willing to trade an expiring contract veteran for a good prospect, irrespective of the settings.