'Stopper' role available regardless of era

[byzeil]

When setting up my bullpen for online leagues I am a big fan of the 'stopper' role instead of the 'closer' role. But whether the 'stopper' role is available for use or not seems to be dependent on 'when' the league is taking place. I'd like to see ALL of the available roles available all the time for at least non-historical leagues.

[kq76]

I agree. I get why they tied it to an era, but individual teams, especially human players, should have the possibility of using a different bullpen setup if they choose to.

[Padreman]

What's the difference between a Closer and Stopper?

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by Padreman

What's the difference between a Closer and Stopper?

I believe, others can/will correct me if I'm wrong, that a closer comes in at the end of the game to protect a small lead whereas a stopper comes in when the game is on the line even if it isn't at the end. So you are up by 2 runs and your opponent gets a couple on with the meat of their lineup coming up in the 7th. You bring in your 'stopper' then because this is the key point in the game rather than saving your best reliever for the 9th for the save because if you don't stop them now your closer won't have anything to close in the 9th.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by kq76

I agree. I get why they tied it to an era, but individual teams, especially human players, should have the possibility of using a different bullpen setup if they choose to.

Sure, for historical games do it as they would have been done in the time period but in a fictional world let me have the choice of all the roles available in the game.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by byzeil

Sure, for historical games do it as they would have been done in the time period but in a fictional world let me have the choice of all the roles available in the game.

I'd be more inclined to buy into this if some real life examples could be shown.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by RchW

I'd be more inclined to buy into this if some real life examples could be shown.

Stoppers aren't a role I'm making up, they are already in the game but are just limited on whether the role is available or not based on the era of the game (at least I think that is what determines if the role is available or not). So I'm not sure what real life example you would want to back making them available all the time or at least in fictional games (don't use it if you don't want to).

I'm guessing it is the last 2 digits of the year that make them available or not...the example below is in the year 2074 (game seeing 74?) but the role isn't available in 2008.

[Padreman]

It similar to a set-up man then In today's modern ball? And in a historical league do stoppers and closers both exist in the game?

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by Padreman

It similar to a set-up man then In today's modern ball? And in a historical league do stoppers and closers both exist in the game?

In historical games I'm not sure if both roles are available but in the example I posted above (league year 2074) both closer and stopper are available.

As for the definition, especially in-game, I am really only guessing what it is in OOTP as I can't say I have seen a definitive definition.

[Padreman]

I have never seen stopper role. I am in fictional league in 1969 plan to go 150 years would it show up for me in the future?

[byzeil]

I did see in another thread HERE that changing the league setting "Use of closers" to 'rare' will make the stopper role available. It may do that but in the example I posted above the 'use of closers' is set to 'normal' so that setting isn't the only way to make stopper available.

[byzeil]

Originally Posted by Padreman

I have never seen stopper role. I am in fictional league in 1969 plan to go 150 years would it show up for me in the future?

I believe so but don't know for sure when exactly it shows and doesn't show.

[Padreman]

Stopper

This term originally referred to a team's best starting pitcher, who would be called upon to stop a losing streak. It can also refers to a team's closer. Headline: "Tigers ace Verlander again stellar in stopper role". "José Valverde – The Stopper. Despite him giving us a few heart-attacks this season, Papa Grande has not blown a save this year, not a one".

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Padreman

Stopper

This term originally referred to a team's best starting pitcher, who would be called upon to stop a losing streak. It can also refers to a team's closer. Headline: "Tigers ace Verlander again stellar in stopper role". "José Valverde – The Stopper. Despite him giving us a few heart-attacks this season, Papa Grande has not blown a save this year, not a one".

Unless I'm mistaken in my understanding of baseball history, that was not how the term stopper was initially used. Or at least it's not how we're thinking of it in this thread. The above, which is on wikipedia, is how it's more known now. Back in the day, stoppers were relief pitchers who often came into close games in the mid to late innings in order to stop games from getting out of hand. They were also commonly known as firemen. Think of them as putting out, or stopping, fires. Goose Gossage may be the most famous. The idea, as many of us still subscribe to, is why wait until the very last inning to bring in your best reliever? Sure, that might be the most crucial inning, but that's only if things don't get out of hand earlier. If there's a high leverage situation (a situation in which there's a high percentage chance that a run will be scored on you) in the 7th, bring your best reliever in the 7th to prevent run scoring then. Firemen also often stayed longer than 1 inning, often 2, sometimes even 3 or 4.

Earlier you asked if stoppers and closers co-existed. I suppose in a way they kind of did. That is, you could bring your stopper in in the 6th or 7th inning, maybe stay for the 8th and then bring in another guy for the 9th and that last guy would be the closer. But closers more evolved from stoppers. Certainly closers nowadays, rightfully or not, are often known as a team's best relief pitcher, but back then your stopper was undoubtedly known as your best reliever.

I have a book or read somewhere online the history and evolution of stoppers to closers. It was a fascinating read. If I remember where it was I'll mention it later. Maybe someone else knows what I'm talking about.

[jpeters1734]

I think closers should pitch starting from the 7th

[byzeil]

Wanted to bump this request/suggestion for OOTP18. Have the Stopper bullpen role available in all leagues regardless of the time period the league is based. If that would interfere with historical simulations then maybe restrict them then but in my fictional league in 2084 I'd like to be able to have the option of using all the different roles available in-game.

Haven't looked at it lately but there was a suggestion early in the thread that setting closer use to rare made the stopper role available but what it I don't want closer use rare for everyone but want to use the stopper model of setting up my bullpen.

[jpeters1734]

I really wish there were more bullpen strategy options in ootp other than roles. I mean how does the AI replicate what happened in this year's postseason without the user changing the ai settings prior to each postseason?

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by byzeil

Wanted to bump this request/suggestion for OOTP18. Have the Stopper bullpen role available in all leagues regardless of the time period the league is based. If that would interfere with historical simulations then maybe restrict them then but in my fictional league in 2084 I'd like to be able to have the option of using all the different roles available in-game.

Haven't looked at it lately but there was a suggestion early in the thread that setting closer use to rare made the stopper role available but what it I don't want closer use rare for everyone but want to use the stopper model of setting up my bullpen.

Stopper is definitely tied to "use of closer." It will appear as you said when use of closer is set to rarely. I'm probably wrong here (as usual), but I think what y'all are asking for in a stopper is completely different from what OOTP provides as a stopper. Think Hoyt Wilhelm, Ron Perranoski, John Hiller or Mike Marshall. The Stopper in OOTP is basically the bullpen ace and an inning horse. If what you want is what you saw in Andrew Miller with the Indians, I think Markus will have to create an entirely new role. Like I said, I'm probably wrong.

[kq76]

Considering that reliever usage may be the single biggest change we've seen to baseball in the last few years (and the contracts in free agency that relievers are getting show how much teams think of them at the moment), I can't help but agree that there needs to be more options on how a team (human or AI) can set up its bullpen.

I wonder, when OOTP AI teams set their strategies, do they set them solely according to the management's preferences or do they also set them according to the players they have under contract? For example, if you have someone like Andrew Miller, then you probably want to use him a lot, especially in the post season, but if you don't then heavily using one guy as a stopper probably doesn't make much sense.

Besides reliever usage, I could see reason for some teams doing it one way and some another as I'm sure some managements in real life want to do things their way regardless of whom they have under contract. Maybe the smartest way to do it is to set short-term tactics based on whom you currently have, but set long-term strategy (who you will sign in FA) based on the team you want to have based on manager preferences.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Stopper is definitely tied to "use of closer." It will appear as you said when use of closer is set to rarely. I'm probably wrong here (as usual), but I think what y'all are asking for in a stopper is completely different from what OOTP provides as a stopper. Think Hoyt Wilhelm, Ron Perranoski, John Hiller or Mike Marshall. The Stopper in OOTP is basically the bullpen ace and an inning horse. If what you want is what you saw in Andrew Miller with the Indians, I think Markus will have to create an entirely new role. Like I said, I'm probably wrong.

I think I might understand what you mean, but I'd like to hear it from you exactly what you think the difference between them is.