Banned from Perfect Team

[Goliathus]

Originally Posted by SF Giants

Thanks for the reply. If the guy just used his other accounts for funneling points only, then there is no question ... but if all of his teams were somewhat competitive then it's quite strict enforcement.

Perhaps it's pity that we can't have more PT teams from one card collection but I totally get why DEVS don't allow that or vice versa why we have multiple accounts (family shared accs) ...

Dude has spent $5000. He can buy 10 accounts and have 30 teams if he wants to do that. Unless you are a number enthusiast, spreading the collection between multiple teams and seeing all of them as one single collection is an option.

Originally Posted by Pirates

First of all, I was not giving advice, I was simply stating some facts.
If my facts, hurt your feelings, that's a YOU problem.
You might want to work on that.

Stating facts doesn't exclude you from d-baggery, which I have pointed out in my previous #2. But hey, you do you, I do me.

Originally Posted by SF Giants

For everyone here it is about that the guy cheated and he should be electrocuted as a punishment for his crime. For me it's about how horrible his crime was, how big advantage he got. I am gonna say something nobody here will like for sure ... but there is a difference if someone who is F2P funnels all his points to the main account which on HIS level of competitivness provide huge boost and someone who bought 8mil PPs. For F2P you are triplicating the number of PPs, for this guy it was just 5% extra ... such tiny edge he got for competition with another whales. Now I am getting to my point, given the size of gained edge, he should have been warned or given choice to pay for all those funnelled PPs before being banned.

The devs are the judges and the law and they did say it's either a warning or a ban...and they go with a ban here. That's the final judgment they decided on whatever OP is doing with all the data they have available -- said crime is probably horrible.

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by OMGPuppies

What exactly did you do and why?

Umm, he flat out said he was moving cards from one account to the next which is a major NO NO. As to why, he said to build up his additional teams.

All of this seemed clear in his original post.

[daveh2018]

Whoa.

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

Umm, he flat out said he was moving cards from one account to the next which is a major NO NO. As to why, he said to build up his additional teams.

All of this seemed clear in his original post.

This I already know. I want him to tell us the details. I’ve always loved those crime documentaries.

[Treydmarq]

Originally Posted by Pirates

Fair enough, you made a good point.
It makes no difference to me what you believe and don't believe. The choice is yours.

Take care.

You missed the question:

Were they giving their opinion or did they have sources?

I am honestly interested in this, not stirring the pot.

[waittilnextyear]

Originally Posted by Lukas Berger

...instant bans without warnings are only for truly flagrant and egregious violations.

Not to keep flogging a dead horse here, but I find this part of Lukas' post to be interesting. Kind of insinuates that it wasn't just a poor soul moving a couple of cards between accounts (not that it's okay to do that), but the OOTP powers that be considered the offense to be "truly flagrant and egregious."

[Dogberry99]

Having been accused of cheating myself, I am generally opposed to most moralizing done on this forum. This is especially true when you factor in that I view myself as playing in a manner that is technically violating the TOS, because I do value card collecting and achievement generation more than winning.

Also, should this have any bearing on the situation? http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...4&postcount=45

[Westheim]

Originally Posted by RchW

I think the problems of a person who would sink $5K into a game are far beyond this forums purview. Personal responsibility is paramount. The fact that the OP chose to cheat despite acknowledging that it was pay to win renders him/her devoid of any sympathy on my part.

Why do we assume that he has problems just because he spent $5k on digital cards that ultimately have no value? He could be making $500k a year and it's just peanuts to him.

Not that the fact that he does or the possibility that he does, or doesn't, makes him a less egregious cheater.

Originally Posted by QuantaCondor

I agree with everything except the criticism of FTP players. Why shouldn't people who can't afford to spend money on the game be criticized for wanting to play on a level playing field? Isn't criticizing them for wanting to play the game as F2P a little hypocritical?

I read through a few pages in the popular "special" leagues around here, as well as what they posted members elsewhere, but there has definitely been the expressed sentiment in those threads and posts that they are playing the game "the better way", which I object to. Not by everybody, not all the time, but I've seen it. I don't object to what they're doing - I object to the elitism.

OOTPD could make improvements for that crowd; e.g. in-game messaging, and the ability to set up custom leagues outside the league pyramid that are invitation-only for exactly these purposes, but where teams don't earn any PP so as to not give an advantage. But these are outside the scope of both OOTP 20 (going by how actual tournaments are still nowhere to be seen) and this thread.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by DonkeyKongSr

People say this, but people have hobbies that cost way more than that. Or go on vacations for 1 week that cost more than that. Or spend more than that at bars. With as many hours as we put into this game, it's not outrageous. We aren't just putting these cards on a digital shelf, we are competing in a very enjoyable game.

Basically, you guys need to stop hobby shaming.

I do not care how much money he spent. Many of us have spent some money on at least one team. However, I do care that he is a blatant cheater as more or less stated by Lukas in the "official position." Then I care some more when he comes here posting his garbage and expecting us to sympathize with a cheater. What kind of person cheats at a game that he already has a financial advantage in and then whines for sympathy when he is caught and punished?

[HRBaker]

He openly admitted "I was moving cards from one account to the next ". Even if he never read the ToS, he should have realized that may be questionable since there wasn't a game option to accomplish it.

Lesson learned however; The Dev team should definitely put a link to the ToS in a menu somewhere. Expecting new customers to know they should look for it is asking too much. Some folks have to write their passwords down you know.

[Thundercrack]

Originally Posted by justpatrick

While I agree with the ban, if this is indeed Mr 4001, I still don´t think it´s proper to ridicule someone about how they spend their money. This moralizing is in poor taste and how anyone decides to spend their money is their own business, not that of anyone here.

Of course anyone has the right to spend any way they see fit. And I have the right to express my incredulity at it when they make it public. People who have the means to spend $5,000 or more on this game should not have their feelings hurt by people who don't.

[eldur00]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

He openly admitted "I was moving cards from one account to the next ". Even if he never read the ToS, he should have realized that may be questionable since there wasn't a game option to accomplish it.

Lesson learned however; The Dev team should definitely put a link to the ToS in a menu somewhere. Expecting new customers to know they should look for it is asking too much. Some folks have to write their passwords down you know.

I agree with this. The rules for PT are buried, and let's face it, despite what some of the holier than thou people around will say, VERY FEW people thoroughly read ToS of games they play (even though it's their duty to), and only a fraction more frequent the forums of the game they play.
I don't condone cheating and I'm fine with the OP being banned ; however, not everybody "cheats" maliciously. Just take a second to read the forum post about reinforcement of the rules - some people who are regulars here were not aware or got confused about some of the rules. That's a problem. You can point fingers at people that don't read anything and blame them for not researching and that's fine I guess, but when people who frequently have presence on your game forums are confused, then clarity might be needed on a broader scale than just responding in said forum post and pointing back to a ToS page that can't be easily accessed from the screen of the game mode in question.

I think it would do OOTP good to first, clear up the wording about all of that. Some of the wording is clear, like funneling, but some is still very ambiguous at best. Then, make the rules a bit more exposed. There is no easy way to get to the rules from the PT screen (that I can find)...you have to go back to the Main Menu. That's an aspect that can definitely be improved upon.


But yeah, I don't mind the OP being banned and feel zero sympathy for him...but...that doesn't mean things can't be made easier for the player to navigate or understand.

[Orcin]

I agree that the ToS should be accessible via a prominent link in-game, either on the start screen or in the Main Menu or both. That would remove this convenient rationalization for attempting to get away with cheating.

However, ignorance of the law is no excuse. We can't allow "I didn't know" to render violators immune from prosecution. The fact that very few people read the rules is their fault and they should suffer the consequences of that action instead of those that are following the rules. The cheater is NOT a victim here.

[Stick50]

Dumb new guy here... WHY?

Why not just spread that 5k out over the teams as needed? If team 1 is getting top heavy/loaded.... just dont invest any more $$ on it and use some $$ on teams #2 and #3?

Oh and... 5... freaking k? .... Yeah no way im winning a perfect league title. Sidenote: Honestly. Hearing an actual figure (instead of the term whale), really discourages me from wanting to spend another dime. My $200 certainly isnt going to get my ANYWHERE

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by Orcin

I agree that the ToS should be accessible via a prominent link in-game, either on the start screen or in the Main Menu or both. That would remove this convenient rationalization for attempting to get away with cheating.

However, ignorance of the law is no excuse. We can't allow "I didn't know" to render violators immune from prosecution. The fact that very few people read the rules is their fault and they should suffer the consequences of that action instead of those that are following the rules. The cheater is NOT a victim here.

I don't think most of us are defending him - simply using the event to point out the ToS should be more prevalent.

[HRBaker]

Originally Posted by Stick50

Dumb new guy here... WHY?

Why not just spread that 5k out over the teams as needed? If team 1 is getting top heavy/loaded.... just dont invest any more $$ on it and use some $$ on teams #2 and #3?

Oh and... 5... freaking k? .... Yeah no way im winning a perfect league title. Sidenote: Honestly. Hearing an actual figure (instead of the term whale), really discourages me from wanting to spend another dime. My $200 certainly isnt going to get my ANYWHERE

LOL, $200 will get you in Perfect, but likely bounce you back and forth between there and Diamond.

Cherish your Diamond wins!

[nickwatic]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

I agree in principle with you 100%. 5k is WAY WAY WAY more than I would pay for a couple of years of gaming. I believe I spent about $700 on both 19 and 20. I consider the cost as entertainment across two years. 5k in one year? Only if I win the lottery or had previously won it.

That said, for a rich man that doesn't sound too outrageous. Doesn't excuse cheating.

Thing is, if you got 5k floating around for PT spend some cash on your other team instead of cheating.....

Hasn't even been 1 year. Just 4 months. Lol

[nickwatic]

Its pretty common knowledge with the people I know that transferring between accounts is illegal and against TOS. 99% of the discord knows.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

I don't think most of us are defending him - simply using the event to point out the ToS should be more prevalent.

Then we agree.

[justpatrick]

Originally Posted by Thundercrack

Of course anyone has the right to spend any way they see fit. And I have the right to express my incredulity at it when they make it public. People who have the means to spend $5,000 or more on this game should not have their feelings hurt by people who don't.

Sorry, I think I must not have made my point clear. What I meant is that how people spend their money is their business, and theirs only. The issue here is that he cheated, and rather blatantly at that, but when you call out the amount he has spent on the game like there´s something wrong with it, you are also insulting others here who play the game on the up and up and do so while supporting the game financially, some of them very generously.
Is that the point you wished to make, that there is something inherently wrong in someone paying large sums of money for digital entertainment when you find the practice wasteful?