There's GOT to be a way to keep uber-whales out of iron-silver, right?

[Calvert98]

Originally Posted by joehart

PT is not a difficult game to understand.

The mechanics are straight forward...improve (via money/better players/better strategy/...) and the equilibrium balances to your favor for a short time. But you will always end up in an equilibrium at one point or another. For some that point is in lower leagues like Iron/Bronze and for others it is at a much higher level.
You control when that equilibrium happens. Invest into the wrong players, set the wrong ballpark, wrong sliders, … and you will reach it much faster.

If you invest $100 today, you can still move to Perfect league over a few weeks time. If you invest nothing, you can also get there...it may just take you a little longer.
Again, for your own health....find a way to enjoy the game. You are not helping yourself or anyone else here by venting every other week about all the things you dislike.

All true.

My FTP team is now in its first Perfect League season, sort of holding its own at the bottom of the standings, with one of my gold level SP's just throwing a Maddux. Now on cruise control as folks say, it is interesting to check in and track once and a while.

So for me, I think it is fine as is, but my main interest is the main game.

I just hope that folks do find a way to enjoy PT, in whatever way keeps them involved.

[saintofthesinners]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

Not what he said...

Spend Money - or - Get used to other teams being better
Have fun - or - Move on to something that is fun

So money equals progression and dissatisfaction equals disenfranchisement?

Look, I love the idea of perfect team. But I won’t spend a dime of real money on fake currency to try and win. I think it’s appropriate as a paying customer to wonder whether a game mode where success is determined almost solely on financial commitment is fair and if something could be done to level the playing field for players who don’t want to spend additional money just to compete.

[OMGPuppies]

Originally Posted by joehart

Three quick comment...

1. There was no need to open a new discussion since it has been discussed before and you could have easily posted into any of the older ones.


2. If late starters like this team did not exist, the AH would be useless. People that decide to start now and build a great team by investing into the game tend to help all of us more than the few seasons it takes for him to move past you.
Use the time with them to judge your team and see what works and what does not.


3. thank you Collinwood Magpies !!!

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

So money equals progression and dissatisfaction equals disenfranchisement?

Look, I love the idea of perfect team. But I won’t spend a dime of real money on fake currency to try and win. I think it’s appropriate as a paying customer to wonder whether a game mode where success is determined almost solely on financial commitment is fair and if something could be done to level the playing field for players who don’t want to spend additional money just to compete.

Financial commitment is somewhat overrated in this game. You can spend money on the game and only get to silver like the OP. You can also spend no money on PP and get to Perfect. Heck, you can win Diamond, the second highest level in the game without spending on PP. Hard to complain about that. They need to have it like it is to keep.some incentive for people to spend money on the game, or it will not be financially viable and no longer be made.

[joehart]

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

So money equals progression and dissatisfaction equals disenfranchisement?



I think it’s appropriate as a paying customer to wonder whether a game mode where success is determined almost solely on financial commitment is fair and if something could be done to level the playing field for players who don’t want to spend additional money just to compete.

Did OOTP get more expensive with the introduction of PT? I want to say we get the same excellent OOTP game with a new mode intended to help fund the company so it can better sustain itself and not lose its talent.

Did they give people not willing to invest additional money a way to enjoy the game and progress very far?

If I can win Iron to Diamond with no investment, one may argue that the majority of the game is targeted towards teams with little to no investment and only the highest level requires an investment to win it all on a consistent basis.

One could argue that the game is too focused on people not helping the company sustain itself.

Maybe it is just me but the no investment OL teams are absolutely terrific and a lot of fun.
I don’t even want to look at investment vs. return (hrs of time playing and enjoying the game).
I may need to add Markus and company to my will :-)

OP.....find a way to join OL and enjoy it.
If funding is really all that holds you back, drop me a PM and I will sponsor that license.

[saintofthesinners]

@joehart and omgpuppies

Is there data? I just don’t believe there are that many non-$ teams that are progressing past gold league.

Regardless of if you have or you know someone who has, an anecdote does not make a trend.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

So money equals progression and dissatisfaction equals disenfranchisement?

Look, I love the idea of perfect team. But I won’t spend a dime of real money on fake currency to try and win. I think it’s appropriate as a paying customer to wonder whether a game mode where success is determined almost solely on financial commitment is fair and if something could be done to level the playing field for players who don’t want to spend additional money just to compete.

Lather/Rinse/Repeat

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

@joehart and omgpuppies

Is there data? I just don’t believe there are that many non-$ teams that are progressing past gold league.

Regardless of if you have or you know someone who has, an anecdote does not make a trend.

There is one in my signature and two more on the verge. In PT19, my free teams also advanced past gold and half made it to Perfect. My pay team just gets there quicker than the free ones. There are plenty of stories of F2P making it to Diamond or Perfect.

[Goliathus]

Still a small amount if we look at the overall landscape that is 9K+ team in the PTverse. I think the main point of OMGPuppies' comment is that you can overcome money advantage with game knowledge. "Game knowledge" is something that can't be bought with money -- or can be, assuming you are willing to pay the great managers to coach you, but that's a reach in PT IMO. The F2P who succeeded in making to Diamond and/or Perfect are there because they are good and work hard in finding edges and learning the mode. They know the players that are good, they have a concrete plan to push their advantage and so on -- and they are rewarded with their efforts.

It's possible, but it's not the norm because not everyone are playing this that seriously or they might not have the right mindset or approach to improve. It also helps that some whales are splashing money but have minimal game knowledge, and the knowledgeable players can easily take advantage of them.

In a world where every whale is splashing money and learning the game like Einstein on science, then they will conquer PT; but that's not the timeline we are in or ever will be...because my experience tells me many whales prefer to splash more money instead of learning the game and there's a cap at how far the money can get you with no knowledge.

[joehart]

You are absolutely correct. None of us have the ability to make any of those queries against the PT universe backend to fully support either side of the argument with accurate data.

But there have been plenty of posters here, plenty of OL teams, our own, ..

But this is not the point to focus on. The PT universe as it stands today allows both sides of the spectrum to enjoy the game.
In fact, I put my top team aside to enjoy the non-funded teams because the competition against similar & better teams is a lot of fun and it gives me a long term goal to make it to the top league.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

So money equals progression and dissatisfaction equals disenfranchisement?

Look, I love the idea of perfect team. But I won’t spend a dime of real money on fake currency to try and win. I think it’s appropriate as a paying customer to wonder whether a game mode where success is determined almost solely on financial commitment is fair and if something could be done to level the playing field for players who don’t want to spend additional money just to compete.

Do you have to win in Perfect Level to be happy? That is the only level that needs money to win the WS and that statement may be proven wrong soon. Maybe you should look at trying to be happy winning another level.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

@joehart and omgpuppies

Is there data? I just don’t believe there are that many non-$ teams that are progressing past gold league.

Regardless of if you have or you know someone who has, an anecdote does not make a trend.

I am one of the teams. In PT19 I have a FTP team leading their division as we speak by a considerable margin in Perfect Level. In PT20 I have an OL FTP Diamond team slugging it out with the leaders. Look in OL to find players that can win at any level and I expect one of us to win in Perfect at some point this year. These players understand strategy and and how to put talent together. Do you remember "Money Ball"?

[mcdog512]

Originally Posted by saintofthesinners

So money equals progression and dissatisfaction equals disenfranchisement?

Look, I love the idea of perfect team. But I won’t spend a dime of real money on fake currency to try and win. I think it’s appropriate as a paying customer to wonder whether a game mode where success is determined almost solely on financial commitment is fair and if something could be done to level the playing field for players who don’t want to spend additional money just to compete.

It's not solely determined by money. You don't want to spend a dime, then don't!

I'm going to do something really crazy later today. I'm going to spend $25 and get a pizza and a large IPA and when I finish I will have absolutely nothing to show for it but a trip to the can.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Luck. 400 bucks and 1000 packs and no perfect cards, and the diamonds I get mostly suck. Give me a silver league without a whale and Im playoffs every year. But that doesn't happen, hence this post. I can't control who Im seeded with. Every Monday comes around I can with 95% certainty tell who the champion will be. I'm no Nostradamus so if I can rank then that well then I'm being paired with teams that shouldn't be in silver. I have zero control over that.

I'm glad you were lucky enough to not be seeded with teams 4 levels lower than their ability. I haven't been.

My $400 team is the the Shanel Xtreme in Perfect. We have not won it yet there. But we are making the playoffs every week but one when we had a 92-70 record. We have been to the World Series twice where we were beaten by Joe Hart's team once. I blew up my park factors this week for kicks to all offense and we still may make the playoffs as a WC team. We compete against many perfect rosters every week. We have 2 Perfect cards. Go figure.

[Kushiel]

Originally Posted by mcdog512

It's not solely determined by money. You don't want to spend a dime, then don't!

I'm going to do something really crazy later today. I'm going to spend $25 and get a pizza and a large IPA and when I finish I will have absolutely nothing to show for it but a trip to the can.

Well said.

[CrazyWR]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Im not looking for promotion. Heck if i was to stay in silver indefinitely Id be fine with that assuming some level of parity existed. But it doesn't. Hence, the post.

As far as my frustration for weeks, that is inaccurate. I haven't been frustrated with gameplay for around a month biding my time praying that one day Ill be in a league of silver-caliber teams. That, however, doesn't exist. I'm glad you all are fine with the ways things are set up. That's your opinion and you have a right to it. I disagree. Ootp could be fun. Great concept. Truly. As far a parity is concerned, however, poor execution.

The End. Its not an argument. I'm expressing frustration that anyone would feel in the same circumstances. I hope no other player has to experience this with a game. Sadly I doubt that will happen. But one can hope that Parity is possible.

PS as far as OL I already have 3 teams so I can't just make a team and Start that way, but I do love the silver OL league Im currently in.

This is baseball, parity is not a thing that has ever existed in baseball. What makes you thing you deserve to be promoted or have parity? You're not even winning your division this season so you are hardly in a position to complain that you are being unfairly held down.

[justpatrick]

If not promoting is not a problem then what is the problem? If you think you have to be a whale to succeed in this league it simply isn´t true. I am in diamond as a f2p team with three bronze players in my starting lineup and my 78 Bill Terry is second in the league with a .329 average. I knew I´d never match the whales in power hitting, so I concentrate on pitching and defense and it´s worked.
Too bad you haven´t been in shadowz´s league, he´s a whale who always loses.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by joehart

Did OOTP get more expensive with the introduction of PT? I want to say we get the same excellent OOTP game with a new mode intended to help fund the company so it can better sustain itself and not lose its talent.

Did they give people not willing to invest additional money a way to enjoy the game and progress very far?

If I can win Iron to Diamond with no investment, one may argue that the majority of the game is targeted towards teams with little to no investment and only the highest level requires an investment to win it all on a consistent basis.

One could argue that the game is too focused on people not helping the company sustain itself.

Maybe it is just me but the no investment OL teams are absolutely terrific and a lot of fun.
I don’t even want to look at investment vs. return (hrs of time playing and enjoying the game).
I may need to add Markus and company to my will :-)

OP.....find a way to join OL and enjoy it.
If funding is really all that holds you back, drop me a PM and I will sponsor that license.

I would love to join OL. I have had a blast of a time in the one league where I got lucky enough to get seeded with like 9 OL teams. I've been there for 3 years and am quite content. I did spend money, and I'm only middle of the pack, but I'd rather be middle of the pack and competitive than the best or 2nd best team in the league, but have no chance because of a whale.


So, tell me what I have to do. I'll PM in a few minutes. Thanks for whatever sponsoring is.

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by CrazyWR

This is baseball, parity is not a thing that has ever existed in baseball. What makes you thing you deserve to be promoted or have parity? You're not even winning your division this season so you are hardly in a position to complain that you are being unfairly held down.

I don't deserve to be promoted. I'm quite content in silver for now. I simply want to, you know, play a game without the constant frustration of being in a level in the bottom half of the game but going up against teams designed for the very highest level.

I'll reiterate...again...even a few seasons of this and it's simply luck of the draw. Crappy luck. No big deal. There's always next year, etc... But 2 straight RL months of being in iron, bronze, and silver leagues with super-whales? I'm not asking for a promotion. I'm happy where I am for now. I've got stuff to learn to work on and improve, but these teams I constantly have to play in my leagues don't need that. They're so good they should basically start in gold or diamond. And this is only my experience. 8 game weeks (seasons) of this consecutively. Others are surely seeded into similar situations. Hence, it's not completely impossible to suggest that all the teams built like this be seeded into similar leagues. Even if they were to have a champions league within each tier where the winner of the previous world series is seeded among other previous year world series winners for a single season. As soon as you lose a world series, even if you're promoted, you're only promoted into the standard next-tier, and not the champion's tier of said level.

Even though OVR isn't everything, Team A with silvers, bronzes, a couple irons, and a few diamonds, doesn't stand a chance against Team B with 100's at every position on their starting roster, even if they're the worst 100's in the game and the manager sucks. Team B will destroy Team A probably 97x out of 100, and maybe even 99x/100.

As far as parity... Parity is why sports are fun to play and observe/follow. Are you really suggesting you prefer sports environments where the same team wins every single year and there's basically no reason to play the games? I'm a NE Patriots fan and I'm SICK of them always winning. Football needs a new dynasty/competitive balance because it's ruining the sport. And I'm a fan of the team doing the roflstomping, and it bothers me.



Is there always going to be parity? Of course not. I have no delusion about that. But to honestly suggest 8 seasons of going up against what I've endured is me being entitled to parity is ludicrous. I strive for it. I don't even expect it. But asking for it ONCE in 9 seasons (as it will be next monday) is not entitlement. It is a testament to something being amiss.


Take my champion's tier suggestion for an example. I'm sure it's flawed, but it would add some level of parity. And yes, I understand some teams "luck into" the world series and would get crushed, but they would only have to endure one week of it before being re-seeded with teams more their level. It seems better than having teams such as my own who have won 1 world series but relentlessly keep getting seeded with perfect league teams in silver.

[justpatrick]

I understand it must be quite frustrating for you, to have had such ****ty luck with the money you spent, but if you want to have fun you have to put it behind you and try to win the best way you can. I´m sure the Rangers would love for the Astros to promote out of their league as well, but that´s just the way it goes, there´s always going to be teams head and shoulders above the others.

It might be a good idea to unload players on one of your teams so that you can qualify for OL. Whatever you do, good luck and I hope you find a way to have a good time from this game.

[atabakin]

Findest, unless things have dramatically turned around since your standings screenshot in the first post, this whale does not affect you. You'll have, what, 6-7 games against that team? That's not the reason you're hovering around .500. I'm not saying it's right for whales to be in Silver, and I'm not saying it's wrong. What I'm saying is for you to stop blaming whales in different divisions for your team just not being good enough.