Returning a starting pitcher from DL straight into rotation - greater injury risk?

Cole · 06-21-2015, 10:02 PM

In an online league I'm in, I had a starting pitcher go down with an elbow injury, out for 2 to 3 months.

He's back healthy now and I have just started the second round of the playoffs right as he is eligible to come off the DL.

Do I run a greater risk of reinjuring him if I put him back into my rotation, versus simply sitting him out until next year? I don't have the luxury of sending him to the minors for a rehab assignment, so I'm wondering if anyone has done any sort of research on this in OOTP .. or at least if you have any anecdotal evidence?

He was doing fairly well before he got injured and while I don't absolutely need him, it would be nice to put him in there... He's probably my 2nd or 3rd best pitcher, potentially.. although my rotation is filled mostly with 2nd and 3rd pitchers, with no real defined ace.

So thoughts.. Greater chance of reinjury? Likely to be rusty/give poor performances anyway? I'm just trying to weigh the pros and cons here.

r0nster · 06-21-2015, 10:16 PM

being as you in playoffs I would have used him as reliever in the round you in then starter if desired in the next round.

jpeters1734 · 06-21-2015, 10:17 PM

i don't have any evidence of a greater chance of injury, but I know pitchers will need a start or two in rehab to knock our rust

Cole · 06-21-2015, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r0nster

being as you in playoffs I would have used him as reliever in the round you in then starter if desired in the next round.

That's a reasonable option, I may do that. Want to hear a few more opinions first.

That being said, chance of being in the next round isn't overly high.

Cole · 06-21-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

i don't have any evidence of a greater chance of injury, but I know pitchers will need a start or two in rehab to knock our rust

Is this more anecdotal or something you know for certain?

At this point if I do bring the guy back I'm going to have him start Game 1 of the series to give all other starters an extra day's rest.. I'm just wondering if that's a colossal mistake as he's quite likely to lay an egg...

r0nster · 06-21-2015, 10:34 PM

@ cole .... as the saying goes no guts no glory LOLOL

RchW · 06-21-2015, 10:45 PM

Start him with a pitch count.

jpeters1734 · 06-21-2015, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .Cole.

Is this more anecdotal or something you know for certain?

At this point if I do bring the guy back I'm going to have him start Game 1 of the series to give all other starters an extra day's rest.. I'm just wondering if that's a colossal mistake as he's quite likely to lay an egg...

It's really just what I noticed. But it really is a case by case basis. a 75% Kershaw is better than a 100% Joe Schmoe

RchW · 06-21-2015, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

It's really just what I noticed. But it really is a case by case basis. a 75% Kershaw is better than a 100% Joe Schmoe

Amazingly OOTP often seems to replicate real life where the first start can be very good. Beware the second start.

Rain King · 06-22-2015, 07:41 AM

This is where I wish the injury/recovery model had more depth. This guy needs side sessions and simulated games leading up to his being declared "ready" and the result of those should help inform you how to use him. Hopefully something that can be implemented down the line.

RchW · 06-22-2015, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rain King

This is where I wish the injury/recovery model had more depth. This guy needs side sessions and simulated games leading up to his being declared "ready" and the result of those should help inform you how to use him. Hopefully something that can be implemented down the line.

I've never heard of simulated games happening during the playoffs. Correct me if I'm wrong. Players either play or don't play in my experience.

rpriske · 06-22-2015, 09:12 AM

I have never seen any disadvantage to returning the player directly to active play.

I always assumed 'side sessions' etc. were part of the injured time. He isn't 'ready' until he is actually ready.

BMD · 06-22-2015, 09:41 AM

I remember when rehab assignment first came out in OOTP there was discussion of the chance of re-injury being greater if the player was not properly rehabbed following a major injury. I have asumed it was part of the formula ever since. Maybe I am wrong though and it was just discussed but never really a part of the game.

'94 EXPOS · 06-22-2015, 10:32 AM

From my experience:

Coming off that long term of an injury I don't think throwing him to the wolves will increase the chance of him being re-injured.

As others have said it will take a few starts for him to get up to speed.

Where I have noticed the increased chance for injury, especially pitchers, is when they get a day to day injury (ex sore elbow, 2 days 35% performance loss). Obviously you would not use the player while the injury is in effect. But even after allowing it to heal, if you start the pitcher the next time he comes up in the rotation I have noticed an increased chance of a more damaging injury to occur. I now make sure that I hold my starter out for one turn through the rotation before letting him back in.

Again, I base this simply as a completely unfounded observation on my part!

I imagine that your trainer's prevention and heal ratings make a significant impact if what I have noticed is in fact true.

MizzouRah · 06-22-2015, 12:37 PM

I'm in the camp where I look at a rehab assignment as getting your SP ready for a FULL start without having a couple bad games (rust). If he pitches a good first game in AAA, then I assume he's ready to go.

I also use it if I have a replacement pitcher pitching well in the ML and I want to think a bit before reinserting him into the starting lineup.

curt · 06-22-2015, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BMD

I remember when rehab assignment first came out in OOTP there was discussion of the chance of re-injury being greater if the player was not properly rehabbed following a major injury. I have asumed it was part of the formula ever since. Maybe I am wrong though and it was just discussed but never really a part of the game.

You are correct. I just read a post in regards to this a couple of weeks ago.Its still part of the formula. Returning from an injury in the playoffs is rather tempting to immediately re-instate in line up. Otherwise I always use rehab assignments. The post I read stated that minor injureys (2 weeks or less I think) didn't require rehab but anything greater could have repercussions. I'm sure if you searched the posts for "rehab" it could be found.

byzeil · 06-22-2015, 09:03 PM

re-injury? Not sure but many eons ago Markus stated that rust comes into play with spring training and injuries of 14+ days. It may have changed since then but I doubt it has gone away.

r0nster · 06-22-2015, 09:17 PM

@ cole what did you end up deciding to do ??????????

06-21-2015, 10:02 PM	#1
Cole Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick Posts: 2,685	Returning a starting pitcher from DL straight into rotation - greater injury risk? In an online league I'm in, I had a starting pitcher go down with an elbow injury, out for 2 to 3 months. He's back healthy now and I have just started the second round of the playoffs right as he is eligible to come off the DL. Do I run a greater risk of reinjuring him if I put him back into my rotation, versus simply sitting him out until next year? I don't have the luxury of sending him to the minors for a rehab assignment, so I'm wondering if anyone has done any sort of research on this in OOTP .. or at least if you have any anecdotal evidence? He was doing fairly well before he got injured and while I don't absolutely need him, it would be nice to put him in there... He's probably my 2nd or 3rd best pitcher, potentially.. although my rotation is filled mostly with 2nd and 3rd pitchers, with no real defined ace. So thoughts.. Greater chance of reinjury? Likely to be rusty/give poor performances anyway? I'm just trying to weigh the pros and cons here.

06-21-2015, 10:17 PM	#3
jpeters1734 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Juust a bit outside... Posts: 5,623	i don't have any evidence of a greater chance of injury, but I know pitchers will need a start or two in rehab to knock our rust __________________ "Cannonball Coming!" Go Bucs!! Founder and League Caretaker of the Professional Baseball Circuit, www.probaseballcircuit.com An Un-Official Guide to Minor League Management in OOTP 21 Ratings Scale Conversion Cross-Reference Cheat Sheet

06-21-2015, 10:45 PM	#7
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The big smoke Posts: 15,628	Start him with a pitch count. __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

06-22-2015, 09:12 AM	#12
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,989 Blog Entries: 1	I have never seen any disadvantage to returning the player directly to active play. I always assumed 'side sessions' etc. were part of the injured time. He isn't 'ready' until he is actually ready. __________________ Rusty Priske Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan ````````````````````````````````````````

06-22-2015, 09:03 PM	#17
byzeil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NJ, US Posts: 2,002	re-injury? Not sure but many eons ago Markus stated that rust comes into play with spring training and injuries of 14+ days. It may have changed since then but I doubt it has gone away. Last edited by byzeil; 06-22-2015 at 09:05 PM.

06-21-2015, 10:16 PM	#2
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	being as you in playoffs I would have used him as reliever in the round you in then starter if desired in the next round.

06-21-2015, 10:34 PM	#6
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	@ cole .... as the saying goes no guts no glory LOLOL

06-22-2015, 07:41 AM	#10
Rain King Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,112	This is where I wish the injury/recovery model had more depth. This guy needs side sessions and simulated games leading up to his being declared "ready" and the result of those should help inform you how to use him. Hopefully something that can be implemented down the line.

06-22-2015, 09:41 AM	#13
BMD All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Somewhere raising the Jolly Roger Posts: 515	I remember when rehab assignment first came out in OOTP there was discussion of the chance of re-injury being greater if the player was not properly rehabbed following a major injury. I have asumed it was part of the formula ever since. Maybe I am wrong though and it was just discussed but never really a part of the game.

06-22-2015, 10:32 AM	#14
'94 EXPOS Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 311	From my experience: Coming off that long term of an injury I don't think throwing him to the wolves will increase the chance of him being re-injured. As others have said it will take a few starts for him to get up to speed. Where I have noticed the increased chance for injury, especially pitchers, is when they get a day to day injury (ex sore elbow, 2 days 35% performance loss). Obviously you would not use the player while the injury is in effect. But even after allowing it to heal, if you start the pitcher the next time he comes up in the rotation I have noticed an increased chance of a more damaging injury to occur. I now make sure that I hold my starter out for one turn through the rotation before letting him back in. Again, I base this simply as a completely unfounded observation on my part! I imagine that your trainer's prevention and heal ratings make a significant impact if what I have noticed is in fact true.

06-22-2015, 12:37 PM	#15
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,251	I'm in the camp where I look at a rehab assignment as getting your SP ready for a FULL start without having a couple bad games (rust). If he pitches a good first game in AAA, then I assume he's ready to go. I also use it if I have a replacement pitcher pitching well in the ML and I want to think a bit before reinserting him into the starting lineup.

06-22-2015, 09:17 PM	#18
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,002	@ cole what did you end up deciding to do ??????????