Weird Result in Extreme Cases

[LordTC]

I've been trying to test out the balance of the engine in extreme situations. I've always contended the difference between bad and good wasn't extreme enough. I hope this game was just an example of some sort of bug, but I just played out a 10-2 loss to cleveland where every player on their team (including all subs) was given a 99% performance drop day to day injury. With every player in their organization playing at 1% effectiveness, they had 11 hits for 10 runs, and their starter went 7 innings giving up 5 hits, 4 walks and 2 runs with 4 K's. Perhaps even more interesting despite every player on the field being at 1% effectiveness they committed 0 errors.

Given the routinely negative stat lines that score up in fields that should be restricted to positive, I'm hoping this is something silly with a field wrapping from negative to positive or some round-off issue error. But seriously this game has been around long enough that the engine should be reliable and these issues should be fixed.

Another error I noticed is at the start of the season if one team plays earlier, an 0-2 team will get listed ahead of a 0-0 team in the wildcard list.

[LordTC]

Second game of the series was 12-8 for the jays. The cleveland 1% effectiveness batters smashed 14 hits and got 6 walks. The AI is recognizing the injuries: most of the jays runs came from the AI refusing to put in an injured pitcher and instead choosing to leave an exhausted pitcher in for 3 more innings.

[Bluenoser]

What exactly are you trying to prove here? That if you intentionally injure every player on a team the team will play injured players?

Sorry, but not following you here or what you're trying to determine.

[LordTC]

Noticed that the BNN profile for the pitcher in game shows rest 0% totally exhausted, but his in game status is ok - 52 pitches. He's listed as 92-94 MPH pitcher and he's been throwing a fair amount of 96 MPH fastballs.

Score was 10-2 with most of the jays runs coming against exhausted pitching. The Cleveland performance was a far more reasonable 5 hits, 3 walks, 2 runs, which still seems high for 1% effectiveness, but is somewhat reasonable.

Other issues: Brantley gets hit by a pitch and injured with a day-to-day injury. Message says they have to take him out of the game but he gets left in. His day-to-day injury effect goes from 99 to 28 (less injured) and his diagnosis changes.

[GlennCraven]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

What exactly are you trying to prove here? That if you intentionally injure every player on a team the team will play injured players?

Sorry, but not following you here or what you're trying to determine.

If nothing else, he's pointing out that the DTD injury performance drop-off isn't sufficient to influence a player's effectiveness of play. With an entire team of guys who by all rights should barely be able to move (99 percent loss of performance), Cleveland is still hammering Toronto in the two games he details.

My wild guess as a non-programmer is that the engine is set up to recognize performance drops up to a certain level and not beyond. Anything beyond that and the player should be on the DL. But by using Commissioner Mode to create your own injuries that fall outside the normal DTD injury parameters (whatever those may be), the system is ignoring the injuries entirely when it comes to game play, albeit not when it comes to bringing in a pitcher who is recognized as being injured to some degree.

Again, that's a wild guess.

[LordTC]

My wild guess as a programmer is that some values might be dropping to 0 or negative and getting wrapped around to maximum instead of cut off. For values between 1 and 250, 0 might be used for a random number so when the injury cuts a value to 0 it gives a completely wild behaviour.

My next guess is that the field might be set up backwards from the expected behaviour. I'm going to try and see if 1% performance losses are crippling.

@Blue Nose, I think it's pretty clear that the point isn't that the AI will player injured players if they don't have a choice (they should). My points are:

1) Injuring the player actually made them more healthy.
2) The announcement shouldn't say "have to come out of the game" in situations when they are going to be left in (minor issue)
3) If a 99% injury has almost no effect on gameplay are other DTD injuries working properly?

[olivertheorem]

I think GlennCraven's first point may be the key here. I've never seen a 99% DTD injury over the course of normal play, so creating one may be causing the engine to see it as whatever the max performance loss is for a DTD (engine-wise).

It doesn't necessarily apply so much in a 99% DTD case, but the % is just a modifier to the engine. Players can still have good days with DTD performance loss.

I don't know what you mean by "injuring them made them more healthy." You can't get more healthy than 100%. Unless you meant "injuring them made them better", which a 3-game series does not substantiate.

[LordTC]

The 1% Injury Effectiveness played fairly similar to the 99% injury effectiveness, so it's not that this is backwards it's that something is broken here.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by LordTC

Noticed that the BNN profile for the pitcher in game shows rest 0% totally exhausted, but his in game status is ok - 52 pitches.

IN GAME - pitchers always show exhausted when they are put in the game on their player card

[Jaxxvain]

Makes me wonder if there is ANY effect at all from day-to-day injuries, performance wise. Since all results are still connected to "randomness" of some sort.

I do think the day-to-day injuries definitely effects injury prone-ness, but that is not what the original poster is looking at here.

[Jaxxvain]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

IN GAME - pitchers always show exhausted when they are put in the game on their player card

Not sure what you mean here. I don't think they show exhausted until later in the game.

I think what he means above is that if you take a pitcher who just pitched yesterday, he will be listed as "0%-exhausted". Once he enters a game, he is shown as Status: OK (0 pitches). When he really should already be tired or exhausted.

[SandMan]

Does anyone else see that the OP tested the game in a manner that will never occur in a game and then claim the system to be broken? I don't see how this can be called a bug when the OP abused the system.

[waitwut]

Obviously it will never happen in reality but its always interesting to push programs to their limits. I'm not a programmer but I am interested in how computer programs work and its obvious there IS something to it. Perhaps its an intentional bug left in where the programmers knew something like this wouldn't happen in normal play, so the conditions governing the issue would never be met to create an injury with 99% or 1% cut offs, and therefore no issues would ever be encountered. When you mess with the values, weird things happen.

[olivertheorem]

I don't think the OP is particularly relevant to actual, everyday gameplay, but I do think it was an interesting exercise in "what-if".

I wouldn't really expect a 1% drop off to show any real noticeable effect anyway.

[swampdragon]

Originally Posted by LordTC

My wild guess as a programmer is that some values might be dropping to 0 or negative and getting wrapped around to maximum instead of cut off. For values between 1 and 250, 0 might be used for a random number so when the injury cuts a value to 0 it gives a completely wild behaviour.

My next guess is that the field might be set up backwards from the expected behaviour. I'm going to try and see if 1% performance losses are crippling.

@Blue Nose, I think it's pretty clear that the point isn't that the AI will player injured players if they don't have a choice (they should). My points are:

1) Injuring the player actually made them more healthy.
2) The announcement shouldn't say "have to come out of the game" in situations when they are going to be left in (minor issue)
3) If a 99% injury has almost no effect on gameplay are other DTD injuries working properly?

I saw what I thought was a wraparound a few years ago when using exhausted pitchers. They would eventually got over their exhaustion and pitch brilliantly. I don't think that or this matters much in normal play, because those players won't play when the AI has a choice. Just play normally and keep track of DTD player perfomance by percentage of injury.