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OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA. |
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04-05-2019, 06:42 AM | #1 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
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Last patch messed up Historical pitcher ratings
At least, I did not note anything wrong until the last patch from the other day.
Playing random debut, I noticed that Catfish Hunter kept coming out as potential 53 more or less, when I ran more than one league to check if it were my settings. That happened with 5-year recalc, or with 3-year. Since he was always around 26 years old, a period when he began a four-year period of having WHIPs below 1.00 3 times out of 4, winning a Cy Young Award, and winning 21 games or more each season, even accounting for how different eras may interact and a player may have seemed over-rated in a certain period, it seemed low. So, I ran a straight 1965 league. ALL THE HISTORIC PITCHER RATINGS SEEM WRONG. Catfish Hunter in his rookie season: actual 44, potential 50 Dave McNally, 44/50 Sandy Koufax, 1965, 66/68 - the highest rating Don Drysdale 61/62 Marichal 60/63 Jim Kaat 1965 49/53 Luis Tiant 50/53 Mel Stottlemyre 53/53 Tommy John - who will go on to pitch into the 1980s 48/52 Jim Palmer 47/51 Bob Gibson 53/55 These seem absurdly low. The result in my random debut leagues was Catfish having an early ERA of well over 9.00. That CAN happen in real life, but here seems to have had to do with him being grossly undervalued in his ratings. With these ratings, the pitchers' era of the 1960s would end up seeming like the 1930s slugfest or the 1990s steroid era ! Can this please be fixed ASAP? I only play historical and random debut historical leagues, so this actually makes OOTP 20 unusable for me and potentially many others like me. Thanks ! |
04-05-2019, 06:57 AM | #2 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Now, I went back to OOTP 19 and ran the same 1965 normal Historical League, same settings, with 3-year recalc and real stats - same as in the OOTP 20 league noted above.
here are the ratings: Sandy Koufax 1965 - 75/75 Don Drysdale 65/65 Juan Marichal 66/68 Bob Gibson 57/59 - that still seems VERY strange for Gibson ? Mel Stottlemyre 54/54 Luis Tiant 51/54 Tommy John 50/53 Jim Kaat 51/53 Catfish Hunter 35/52 Now, this seems to me like the problem is older than the patch and even precedes OOTP 20. Are these ratings right? What do the ratings actually rate? Why are the potentials so low for these very good, often great, sometimes historically all-time great pitchers? Only Koufax's rating seems realistic here and even his is off in OOTP 20. |
04-05-2019, 07:06 AM | #3 |
All Star Reserve
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Okay, it gets EVEN weirder:
I ran a full re-scout of the OOTP 19 1965 league, and now the ratings are: Koufax 80/80 - okay that's good news. Drysdale 70/70 Gibson 59/61 ??!!! Huh? Tiant 51/56 Kaat 52/55 Stottlemyre 55/55 Hunter 32/53 - Catfish Hunter in 1965 pitched 133 innings. He did go 8-8 with a 4.26 ERA, so at first glance the rating might seem fair, but first of all the potential rating remains absurd - he should be at least in the high 60s, but his WHIP was 1.28 which is good. A 32 rating seems awfully low then. So, what's going wrong? Are the Historical Pitcher ratings broken and have they been for a while? Am I misunderstanding what the ratings are and how they work? Could someone from the OOTP team explain the discrepancies here, or why nothing is wrong if that is the case, what re-scouting really does, etc. Thanks. |
04-05-2019, 08:05 AM | #4 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 598
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Should you be turning the scouting system off and checking the actual ratings?
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04-05-2019, 12:10 PM | #5 |
All Star Reserve
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Posts: 975
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04-05-2019, 12:11 PM | #6 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
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But since the "Use Complete Scouting System" boxed was unchecked from the start, IF that is what you mean, then there ARE the actual ratings.
And they don't seem right. |
04-05-2019, 12:14 PM | #7 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 8,810
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I'm an idiot in terms of ratings, as I don't manage or gm. Where is this rating you are talking about shown. I see ratings for movement, control etc. but I'm not sure where the rating you're show is. Sorry for being dense.
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04-05-2019, 12:29 PM | #8 |
Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 90
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italyprof,
I think you have a bad scout that is underestimating many of those pitchers. You need to turn OFF scouting to see the true, accurate ratings. |
04-05-2019, 12:34 PM | #9 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
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04-05-2019, 12:51 PM | #10 |
OOTP Historical Czar
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bothell Wa
Posts: 7,254
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1 year, 3 year, 5 year recalc?
Double weight of current year development off or on make bad settings all of these can make a big difference as well.
__________________
It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it! |
04-05-2019, 04:15 PM | #11 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
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3-year recalc. Real stats. Development on. No double weight of current year. And yes, the coaching system is off.
This is NOT a coach. These ARE the ratings. Is anyone else seeing this happen? Is there an explanation? |
04-05-2019, 04:17 PM | #12 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
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It is certain pitchers regularly, others sometimes. I have created a bunch of leagues, all the same settings, and Koufax will be pretty normal, others okay, but some, especially Hunter is always very low. As if there were a separate Catfish Hunter setting by one of his enemies, maybe the ghost of Charles O. Finley, setting the ratings.
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04-05-2019, 05:24 PM | #13 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15,695
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This thread is from 2011, but it includes an extensive discussion of potential ratings. (I'm not in a position to say whether some of this information is now obsolete.)
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=210353 |
04-05-2019, 06:09 PM | #14 | |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
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Quote:
Catfish Hunter had a WHIP of right around 1.00 - sometimes a little under, sometimes a few points above, for 3 of 4 years from 1972 to 1975, and was in the top 5 in Cy Young voting every year, winning it once. Yet he is listed as between a 30 and 40 current overall rating for those years time after time (on a 20-80 scale) and in the low to mid 50s for potential. Makes no sense. Not clear what it is based on. Again, I am playing without coaching on, with 3-year recalc, real stats, no doubling of the value of the current season. |
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04-05-2019, 10:43 PM | #15 |
Hall Of Famer
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IIRC from discussions about Hunter's PT card last year (and I'm by no means a historical buff so ignore my post if it's way off base), someone said he was rated lower because of his groundball style coupled with a strong infield in his heyday. Not 100% sure it was Hunter that discussion was about.
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04-06-2019, 08:09 AM | #16 | |
All Star Reserve
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Quote:
But thanks, at least this would explain it, especially given the twisted mentality that passes for baseball wisdom in the age of Big Data. |
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04-07-2019, 12:14 PM | #17 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Here is Catfish in a 1972 start. 54/54
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04-08-2019, 11:07 AM | #18 |
All Star Reserve
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Thanks David that still makes no sense to me. Does anyone think this rating must be wrong?
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04-08-2019, 11:10 AM | #19 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Even if the logic about being fielding dependent were true, I had him on a team with Mattingly, Ozzie Smith and Graig Nettles. Much better than Mike Epstein and Sal Bando and Campy. So he should reproduce his performance at Cy Young levels with good fielding, not give up 9 runs a game.
Fix it please. |
04-08-2019, 11:20 AM | #20 | |
Hall Of Famer
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Quote:
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