Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 20 > OOTP 20 - General Discussions

OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-05-2019, 06:42 AM   #1
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Last patch messed up Historical pitcher ratings

At least, I did not note anything wrong until the last patch from the other day.

Playing random debut, I noticed that Catfish Hunter kept coming out as potential 53 more or less, when I ran more than one league to check if it were my settings. That happened with 5-year recalc, or with 3-year.

Since he was always around 26 years old, a period when he began a four-year period of having WHIPs below 1.00 3 times out of 4, winning a Cy Young Award, and winning 21 games or more each season, even accounting for how different eras may interact and a player may have seemed over-rated in a certain period, it seemed low.

So, I ran a straight 1965 league. ALL THE HISTORIC PITCHER RATINGS SEEM WRONG.

Catfish Hunter in his rookie season: actual 44, potential 50
Dave McNally, 44/50
Sandy Koufax, 1965, 66/68 - the highest rating
Don Drysdale 61/62
Marichal 60/63
Jim Kaat 1965 49/53
Luis Tiant 50/53
Mel Stottlemyre 53/53
Tommy John - who will go on to pitch into the 1980s 48/52
Jim Palmer 47/51
Bob Gibson 53/55

These seem absurdly low. The result in my random debut leagues was Catfish having an early ERA of well over 9.00. That CAN happen in real life, but here seems to have had to do with him being grossly undervalued in his ratings. With these ratings, the pitchers' era of the 1960s would end up seeming like the 1930s slugfest or the 1990s steroid era !

Can this please be fixed ASAP? I only play historical and random debut historical leagues, so this actually makes OOTP 20 unusable for me and potentially many others like me.

Thanks !
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 06:57 AM   #2
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Now, I went back to OOTP 19 and ran the same 1965 normal Historical League, same settings, with 3-year recalc and real stats - same as in the OOTP 20 league noted above.

here are the ratings:

Sandy Koufax 1965 - 75/75
Don Drysdale 65/65
Juan Marichal 66/68
Bob Gibson 57/59 - that still seems VERY strange for Gibson ?
Mel Stottlemyre 54/54
Luis Tiant 51/54
Tommy John 50/53
Jim Kaat 51/53
Catfish Hunter 35/52

Now, this seems to me like the problem is older than the patch and even precedes OOTP 20.

Are these ratings right? What do the ratings actually rate? Why are the potentials so low for these very good, often great, sometimes historically all-time great pitchers? Only Koufax's rating seems realistic here and even his is off in OOTP 20.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 07:06 AM   #3
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Okay, it gets EVEN weirder:

I ran a full re-scout of the OOTP 19 1965 league, and now the ratings are:

Koufax 80/80 - okay that's good news.
Drysdale 70/70
Gibson 59/61 ??!!! Huh?
Tiant 51/56
Kaat 52/55
Stottlemyre 55/55
Hunter 32/53 - Catfish Hunter in 1965 pitched 133 innings. He did go 8-8 with a 4.26 ERA, so at first glance the rating might seem fair, but first of all the potential rating remains absurd - he should be at least in the high 60s, but his WHIP was 1.28 which is good. A 32 rating seems awfully low then.

So, what's going wrong? Are the Historical Pitcher ratings broken and have they been for a while? Am I misunderstanding what the ratings are and how they work? Could someone from the OOTP team explain the discrepancies here, or why nothing is wrong if that is the case, what re-scouting really does, etc.

Thanks.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 08:05 AM   #4
polydamas
All Star Reserve
 
polydamas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 598
Should you be turning the scouting system off and checking the actual ratings?
polydamas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 12:10 PM   #5
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by polydamas View Post
Should you be turning the scouting system off and checking the actual ratings?
I don't know what that means.

I do have the box marked "Use Complete Scouting System" unchecked.

But what does it mean to "turn off scouting" - I thought the ratings WERE scouting.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 12:11 PM   #6
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
But since the "Use Complete Scouting System" boxed was unchecked from the start, IF that is what you mean, then there ARE the actual ratings.

And they don't seem right.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 12:14 PM   #7
David Watts
Hall Of Famer
 
David Watts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 8,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by italyprof View Post
But since the "Use Complete Scouting System" boxed was unchecked from the start, IF that is what you mean, then there ARE the actual ratings.

And they don't seem right.
I'm an idiot in terms of ratings, as I don't manage or gm. Where is this rating you are talking about shown. I see ratings for movement, control etc. but I'm not sure where the rating you're show is. Sorry for being dense.
David Watts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 12:29 PM   #8
Murph3
Minors (Single A)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 90
italyprof,

I think you have a bad scout that is underestimating many of those pitchers. You need to turn OFF scouting to see the true, accurate ratings.
Murph3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 12:34 PM   #9
David Watts
Hall Of Famer
 
David Watts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 8,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murph3 View Post
italyprof,

I think you have a bad scout that is underestimating many of those pitchers. You need to turn OFF scouting to see the true, accurate ratings.
But, he said he has the box for scouting unchecked.
David Watts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 12:51 PM   #10
Spritze
OOTP Historical Czar
 
Spritze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bothell Wa
Posts: 7,254
1 year, 3 year, 5 year recalc?
Double weight of current year
development off or on
make bad settings

all of these can make a big difference as well.
__________________
It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!
Spritze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 04:15 PM   #11
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
3-year recalc. Real stats. Development on. No double weight of current year. And yes, the coaching system is off.

This is NOT a coach. These ARE the ratings. Is anyone else seeing this happen? Is there an explanation?
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 04:17 PM   #12
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
It is certain pitchers regularly, others sometimes. I have created a bunch of leagues, all the same settings, and Koufax will be pretty normal, others okay, but some, especially Hunter is always very low. As if there were a separate Catfish Hunter setting by one of his enemies, maybe the ghost of Charles O. Finley, setting the ratings.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 05:24 PM   #13
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 15,695
This thread is from 2011, but it includes an extensive discussion of potential ratings. (I'm not in a position to say whether some of this information is now obsolete.)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=210353
pstrickert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 06:09 PM   #14
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
This thread is from 2011, but it includes an extensive discussion of potential ratings. (I'm not in a position to say whether some of this information is now obsolete.)

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=210353
Thank you pstrickert. That was very informative. I can't figure out if it actually addresses the issue I am raising which is that not only the potential, but also many actual ratings for pitchers are way off in OOTP20 for historical leagues.

Catfish Hunter had a WHIP of right around 1.00 - sometimes a little under, sometimes a few points above, for 3 of 4 years from 1972 to 1975, and was in the top 5 in Cy Young voting every year, winning it once. Yet he is listed as between a 30 and 40 current overall rating for those years time after time (on a 20-80 scale) and in the low to mid 50s for potential. Makes no sense. Not clear what it is based on.

Again, I am playing without coaching on, with 3-year recalc, real stats, no doubling of the value of the current season.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2019, 10:43 PM   #15
damientheomen3
Hall Of Famer
 
damientheomen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: with my army of orangutans
Posts: 2,942
IIRC from discussions about Hunter's PT card last year (and I'm by no means a historical buff so ignore my post if it's way off base), someone said he was rated lower because of his groundball style coupled with a strong infield in his heyday. Not 100% sure it was Hunter that discussion was about.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by locuspc View Post
They did much better at implementing pants than launch angles.
damientheomen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2019, 08:09 AM   #16
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by damientheomen3 View Post
IIRC from discussions about Hunter's PT card last year (and I'm by no means a historical buff so ignore my post if it's way off base), someone said he was rated lower because of his groundball style coupled with a strong infield in his heyday. Not 100% sure it was Hunter that discussion was about.
By that logic - and it is the logic of the sadly misguided "three true outcomes" view of pitching, which flies in the face of what pitchers from Warren Spahn to Sandy Koufax to Eddie Lopat to Christy Mathewson, have said about pitching since time began - then all the strikeout pitchers of this era will have to be devalued because batters are trying to hit the ball up, and so are striking out more often, leading to pitchers seeming to be more effective.

But thanks, at least this would explain it, especially given the twisted mentality that passes for baseball wisdom in the age of Big Data.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2019, 12:14 PM   #17
David Watts
Hall Of Famer
 
David Watts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 8,810
Here is Catfish in a 1972 start. 54/54 Name:  my_life_1972-06-09_10-10-01.jpg
Views: 253
Size:  393.5 KB
David Watts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 11:07 AM   #18
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Thanks David that still makes no sense to me. Does anyone think this rating must be wrong?
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 11:10 AM   #19
italyprof
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 975
Even if the logic about being fielding dependent were true, I had him on a team with Mattingly, Ozzie Smith and Graig Nettles. Much better than Mike Epstein and Sal Bando and Campy. So he should reproduce his performance at Cy Young levels with good fielding, not give up 9 runs a game.

Fix it please.
italyprof is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2019, 11:20 AM   #20
David Watts
Hall Of Famer
 
David Watts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks
Posts: 8,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by italyprof View Post
Even if the logic about being fielding dependent were true, I had him on a team with Mattingly, Ozzie Smith and Graig Nettles. Much better than Mike Epstein and Sal Bando and Campy. So he should reproduce his performance at Cy Young levels with good fielding, not give up 9 runs a game.

Fix it please.
What's strange is, in your leagues you said he's pitching awful. As you can see in the above league, minus win/loss record, he's looking pretty Catfish like. Another guy with very similar is Jim Palmer. He's something like 16-1 at the all-star break. As I said earlier, I'm clueless in regards to ratings.
David Watts is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:20 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments