Fictional vs Real Players..

[kain360]

So my first 2 on-line leagues I joined (one fictional and one containing real players) both folded in less than one year. But it really led me to a discussion of how I want to choose the next league I play in. I guess I need to be more careful in how I choose my next league and I will take my time. I also understand that things happen, etc.

I realize it is a personal preference, style, etc but for you guys - why do you choose to play fictional over real players and vice-versa? What does each offer you that the other can't or is the question way too vague?

Thank you kain

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by kain360

So my first 2 on-line leagues I joined (one fictional and one containing real players) both folded in less than one year. But it really led me to a discussion of how I want to choose the next league I play in. I guess I need to be more careful in how I choose my next league and I will take my time. I also understand that things happen, etc.

I realize it is a personal preference, style, etc but for you guys - why do you choose to play fictional over real players and vice-versa? What does each offer you that the other can't or is the question way too vague?

Thank you kain

I like both. But, even when I use real players it's probably considered fictional, as I'm not a fan of recalc.

[elfsutton]

Same, I never use recalc. I almost strictly use real player but let the OOTP Gods do the developement. I just cant get into players I have to learn about when there is a 150 years of guys I know and can watch try to be like they really were. Recalc just makes things too predictable to me.

[rpriske]

I always use real players, but when you play a modern game, they turn fictional relatively fast... which is why I think the shelf life of a modern league will be much shorter.

I DO use recalc, because I want to play with variations on the real players. I don't want a Babe Ruth that can't hit homeruns, for example.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I always use real players, but when you play a modern game, they turn fictional relatively fast... which is why I think the shelf life of a modern league will be much shorter.

I DO use recalc, because I want to play with variations on the real players. I don't want a Babe Ruth that can't hit homeruns, for example.

OOTP does a pretty good job of bringing players in with their actual skill set.

[rpriske]

I have just watched too many things like Hall of Fame threads talking about how some player who had a long career in real life but in the game scrubbed out after a couple of seasons or a player who breaks the homerun record who in real life played in 5 games.

I want variability... just not THAT much. At that point, I figure I might as well play fictional.

[elfsutton]

i really never play the modern game, but when I do, I usually turn on random debut, to get more players, for some reason, not really good with ficitionals. Only time I ever used them, had a pitcher that was great, but not too great. Oh well, to each his own, no? lol

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I have just watched too many things like Hall of Fame threads talking about how some player who had a long career in real life but in the game scrubbed out after a couple of seasons or a player who breaks the homerun record who in real life played in 5 games.

I want variability... just not THAT much. At that point, I figure I might as well play fictional.

I can understand that. For me, recalc ruins the flow of a career sim. If Andy Messersmith wins 26 games with an ERA under 3 in real life, tell me in what universe he would end up a teams 4th starter to start the following season? Sure, due to injuries or poor performance he might end up there, but not due to some rethinking of his ability during the off season. I think the minute I push play a career sim becomes fictional.

[rpriske]

I can see that. It is a case of push/pull and whichever part of it bothers you more, that is the part you stay away from.


As a different point, I also try to play 'real', rather than 'trying to win'.

I have an Dynasty that is the Blue Jays from expansion. Because of my interest in that I started reading someone else's Dynasty that did the same with the Mariners. I stopped reading it pretty fast when he traded for Johnny Bench (among other things) and won the World Series in 1978.

Nothing against that guy... he should play how ever he has fun. I just don't find 'figuring out how to beat the game' is fun for me.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I can see that. It is a case of push/pull and whichever part of it bothers you more, that is the part you stay away from.


As a different point, I also try to play 'real', rather than 'trying to win'.

I have an Dynasty that is the Blue Jays from expansion. Becuase of my interest in that I started reading someone else's Dynasty that did the same with the Mariners. I stopped reading it pretty fast when he traded for Johnny Bnech (among other things) and won the World Series in 1978.

Nothing against that guy... he should play how ever he has fun. I just don't find 'figuring out how to beat the game' is fun for me.

I read your Blue Jay dynasty from time to time. Very nice work. I'm the same way. In fact, I take it to another extreme. I manage only. I let the AI make all my roster moves, trades etc. Heck, I even let it set my lineups most of the time. I'm basically there to make pitching changes and pinch hitting decisions. It's a blast to see the stories develop as one season roles into another.

[Aumakua]

another alternative is a semi-real player league.

I am in the works of putting one together myself. Starting in 1900, I am doing a custom league, where half the teams have new nicknames (for example I left the Cubs and Yankees but now Cleveland has become the Ohio Bison and Minnesota has become the Minnesota Otters...) it allows for some use of new logos and uniforms. Anyway I have the majority of players being fictional and import about 1-2 real players per year (Hall of Famers) at the age of 18, I base their potential on career stats, so there is a chance they will underperform or overperform...

I like having some familiar names in the league but don't like knowing how well they will do each year, and like having to scout players and take a chance on fictional players...

[kain360]

Nice. Thanks guys for all the responses. Certainly a lot more to think about.

[Brian.Rachui]

How do you import a REAL player into a Fictional league?

[24Rocks]

Originally Posted by kain360

So my first 2 on-line leagues I joined (one fictional and one containing real players) both folded in less than one year. But it really led me to a discussion of how I want to choose the next league I play in. I guess I need to be more careful in how I choose my next league and I will take my time. I also understand that things happen, etc.

I realize it is a personal preference, style, etc but for you guys - why do you choose to play fictional over real players and vice-versa? What does each offer you that the other can't or is the question way too vague?

Thank you kain

I love true player leagues when I first started because I was pretty young and I had been a hockey fan more then baseball so didn't know the players as much and I did pretty well, but in my last league I traded for Scott Rolen on 50/50 for Name/stats and I lost in the first round instead of heading back to the series (he made 2 big errors and hit like crap since I got him) and I found in my Personal leagues I would sign a player because I know them in real life, so I now prefer fic leagues but i am open to either. If you are looking for a Online league join the one in my sig just starting soon.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by rpriske

I have just watched too many things like Hall of Fame threads talking about how some player who had a long career in real life but in the game scrubbed out after a couple of seasons or a player who breaks the homerun record who in real life played in 5 games.

I want variability... just not THAT much. At that point, I figure I might as well play fictional.

I will assume you are referring to my HOF threads (thanks for reading!). I haven't had anyone break a HR record who played 5 games. Barry Bonds and Willie McCovey were the career leaders in HRs, respectively, in the first two leagues. In fact, in the first league the top three career HR hitters were Bonds, Aaron, and Ruth.

You mention you like to use recalc, well, I use recalc in the HOF threads. An with recalc I had Babe Ruth hit .226 for his career. He did hit 499 HRs, but he had 49 (I believe, real close to that) injury entries. Without recalc, a lesser player would have been scrubbed long before. The injuries diminished his skills, but, since he was Ruth, he got ratings input from his real stats. He retired at the age of 37 with a couple of good RL stat sets left, but he was just too broken down.

That is precisely the kind of alternative "realism" I find excellent about the game.

With about 200 entrants in each HOF league I have posted, I have had about 50 RL HOFers in each. 209 ( I may be off by one or two, typing without spreadsheet up) is the number of RL HOFers I used as my base. These are players that were not entered because of managerial, executive, or color barrier reasons.

I also had about 50 players that were entered into both OOTP HOFs. Aside from some 19th century guys, the only real "Who the heck is this guy!?!" double entrant was Bill Delancey. The rest were either HOFers, should be HOFers (Rose, Joe Jackson) based on stats, will be HOFers (Pedro, Jr) and too young to tell (Pablo Sandoval, for ex.).

If we can have a reality where Pablo Sandoval develops into a HOFer the same way Lyman Bostock can develop into a HOFer or Daryl Kile can become a HOFer, then that same mechanism must be available for the likes of Gordy Coleman or, to a greater freak degree, Ike Blessitt.

Now Blessitt did get into one of my HOFs having only played 4 RL games, but he is the absolute freak entry, in that regard. But why do we watch baseball? Because it is predictable? No. We love the freak occurrences...the perfect games, the 4 HR games, the scoreless streaks, the hitting streaks...all of these are freakish improbabilities that we HOPE to see when we buy a ticket to a game.

I wouldn't want a sim that wouldn't make it possible to project Sandoval or Adrian Gonzalez to HOF careers simply because we don't know what they will do in 2013, 2014, 2015....At the same time, I wouldn't want a sim to disallow Lyman Bostock from putting in a HOF career simply beause we KNOW he didn't play long enough.

I have tracked close to 300 seasons using recalc and player development (gotta use them both) over three Random Debut leagues (not counting my dry runs previous to what I posted, which was about 100 more seasons) and I think it is an amazing representation of what if.

In my current league Ozzie Smith suffered a CEI in his 8th season. Even if he won 8 GGs and 8 WS as the starting SS, he is not getting in because he didn't play 10 years. Without the "unrealistic" injuries to guys that played a long time, there wouldn't be room for the Bostocks or Dickie Thons to put in a 20 year "what might have been" career and reach the HOF, perhaps.

I rambled longer than I intended here, and I apologize for that. I ask you to take a quick scan through the headlines of the HOF thread posts and look at the names there. You will find that most of them, though not in the actual HOF, are very familiar names. Many of them would have rewritten the records long before we were born if arthroscopic surgery was a routine procedure when they played. I like that.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by kain360

So my first 2 on-line leagues I joined (one fictional and one containing real players) both folded in less than one year. But it really led me to a discussion of how I want to choose the next league I play in. I guess I need to be more careful in how I choose my next league and I will take my time. I also understand that things happen, etc.

I realize it is a personal preference, style, etc but for you guys - why do you choose to play fictional over real players and vice-versa? What does each offer you that the other can't or is the question way too vague?

Thank you kain

My all time favorite league was the TRBL which was a mix of real and fictional players. Before the only seson i participated in I tried to trade Kirk Gibson for Harold Baines. 2 - 3 weeks into the season the GM of the other team said sure. I go to look to see what each player is doing. Baines .230 5 HR 12 RBI approx. Gibson Almsot .500 12+ HR 30 + RBI approx. I said umm shuld have done this deal when it was offered. Gibson went on to win the 1983 MVP. Had several fictional players on the Paw Paw Pirates also.
I was also in the old NuEBL before that one went down hill with in fighting, and it was fun. I lose interest too quickly in fantasy leagues.