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Old 02-04-2020, 06:42 PM   #1
dkgo
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Lefty cheese has to be fixed

It is basically cheating at this point to run a rotation of four lefties set to low pitch counts with all right handed RP which fakes out the opener/follower settings. I have set pinch hitting to position players all the way to the right, favor L/R matchups all the way to the right, and the game still refuses to use any pinch hitters for my team. I have tried setting the pinch hitter spots against both RHP and LHP in the depth chart to be the guys on the bench, the guys in the starting lineup, or blank hoping the game figures it out. Absolutely nothing works. All you can do is be at your computer at the right moment which is a terrible game play experience.
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Old 02-04-2020, 07:16 PM   #2
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I agree. This has basically ruined the game for me and I am no longer very interested in it. I will focus on the regular game for OOTP21 unless something changes.


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Old 02-04-2020, 08:25 PM   #3
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I agree. This has basically ruined the game for me and I am no longer very interested in it. I will focus on the regular game for OOTP21 unless something changes.


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My concern with PT is that its gimmicky and designed to make money (which is the goal of a company) but will burn people out and maybe even push away loyal customers.

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Old 02-04-2020, 09:51 PM   #4
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My concern with PT is that its gimmicky and designed to make money (which is the goal of a company) but will burn people out and maybe even push away loyal customers.
I already spent more on PT than on a lifetime of annual game purchases, so why would they care? I'm hopeful for an OOTP hosted online experience of the real game for a monthly fee instead of relying on "commissioners" working for free.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:56 PM   #5
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As long as the monthly fee isn't required I'm all in on your proposal.

I flat out refuse to support companies that require monthly fees. I've already cut cable, drilled a well, installed a small windmill and solar panels and grow lots of vegetables to offset going to the store. If I could find a way to eliminate Verizon from my life and still be able to do my job they would be next.

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Old 02-04-2020, 10:30 PM   #6
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I just want the app back, updated or a release of OOTPGo. I am getting burned out on PT. I have no intentions to play Perfect team 3.0.
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:32 AM   #7
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LONG LIVE LEFTY CHEESE!
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Old 02-05-2020, 08:30 AM   #8
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I throw a lot of lefties in bronze and silver, but none on pitch counts.

They're just better against the swarms of LH contact hitters down there.

Guess I learn about the exploits far too late to get on the bus.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:02 AM   #9
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I throw a lot of lefties in bronze and silver, but none on pitch counts.

They're just better against the swarms of LH contact hitters down there.

Guess I learn about the exploits far too late to get on the bus.
Which is obviously perfectly fine.

If you want to run nothing but left handed players on your team and modify your ballpark factors for that, also cool.

Using an opener/follower strategy the way the game is set up for is one thing. The fact teams aren't using this means the sole purpose is to exploit the fact that the depth chart functions don't really work by setting staffs in a manner not intended by the game. Cheating.
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:33 AM   #10
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One way to reduce the exploit would be to force ballparks to be somewhat realistic, and not customized in a way to render all left-handed hitters gods and right handers worthless or vice versa.

I'm using on of these ballparks customization myself with Great Lakes (all righties) but I'm not fiddling with the pitching rotation.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:00 AM   #11
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I don’t like it really either. Not sure it’s cheating but it does feel wrong...I would suggest though that if IRL, a manager in these modern times had 10-12 HOF (and many LH) pitchers they might just do the same thing when facing a HOF LH lineup.
I am sure none of us saw the opener strategy as viable before it showed up.
Is it actually effective? I am guessing because it is used the user(s) believes it effective. I can’t say it beats me regularly or not nor have I seen any data (so to speak). The last few weeks there have been 3 teams employing it without much to show for it.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:40 AM   #12
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Using lefty pitchers to counter a meta of lefty bats isn't the problem, that is just basic gameplay. It's exploiting the depth charts so that people use their vs LHP lineup since you set the LHP as the "starter" but then immediately switch to a RHP in a way that can't be countered except to be on the computer during the sim and switching up the depth charts for those games. It is compounded by the fact that the game will never replace position players to give you the platoon advantage back. A real manager would see that the lefty "starter" always just pitches an inning or two then there is nothing but RH relievers the rest of the game and as such would use a lineup with lefty bats but you can't do that in PT since it circumvents the opener/follower settings this way.

No one saw openers as effective in the game or real life? This has been a pretty obvious exploit in PT that people have complained about from the start, and in real baseball there was research done decades ago that showed how much better hitters get as they go thru the order a second and third time so the obvious solution is to not pitch to hitters multiple times. The only reason it isn't widespread is because of stupid antiquated stat-keeping around pitcher wins and saves. But we aren't talking about openers/followers but rather exploiting the depth chart functions.

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Old 02-05-2020, 10:44 AM   #13
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So, isn't the simple fix to disallow pitch counts for starters? I can't see any reason for pitch counts except to employ this cheesy strategy.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:52 AM   #14
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So, isn't the simple fix to disallow pitch counts for starters? I can't see any reason for pitch counts except to employ this cheesy strategy.
That sounds like the most sensible way to handle the issue. That, or set it so that only sensible values are accepted. So 100 will be accepted. 10 won't. 60? Maybe.

It's basically an exploit and it needs shutting down. You wanna play phony ball, use an actual opener...

Edit: As a rule of thumb, make it so that pitch counts can't be lower than the pitcher's stamina.
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Old 02-05-2020, 10:56 AM   #15
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Maybe only openers can have a pitch count below a certain number?
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Old 02-05-2020, 01:05 PM   #16
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One way to reduce the exploit would be to force ballparks to be somewhat realistic, and not customized in a way to render all left-handed hitters gods and right handers worthless or vice versa.
While we're at it, why don't we just do away with all the strategy sliders. Obviously the players who just buy the best cards deserve to win every week, and the FTP players should stay down in gold league where they belong, am I right? That sounds like a fantastic game to play.

How about just fixing the pinch hitter slider? It's much better for the game IMO to have many viable strategies and counter-strategies available, than to reduce the number of strategic choices.

Also for the record my FTP quasi-opener lefty cheese team has won a grand total of zero perfect championships. So the complaints coming from 8 time champs in here are pretty rich. Losing to y'alls whale teams every week isn't "ruining the game" for me. Suck it up buttercup.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:05 PM   #17
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The park factors just caring about if its a LHB or RHB then adjusting their performance based on inputted numbers doesn't really make much sense. The batted ball profiles and actual dimensions of the park should be what matter, and the park factors are the OUTPUT of the results on the field.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:29 PM   #18
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Give me more cheese please. There are viable ways to beat the lefty (or righty) cheese setup, that's a you problem if you haven't realized this.

There's zero need to disable/limit pitch counts. FTP teams can't possibly expect to consistently compete in PL if current strategy sliders or pitch count options are either taken away or nerfed so much they're unusable/unviable. If anything, more sliders and strategy options need to be added and made more useful.

My FTP all-in-lefty-cheese team has won 3 (chintzy you say?) PL titles in what, FORTY, FIFTY seasons? They've gotten lucky 3 piddly times; someone figures out how to beat them nearly every season (or just had a better team) a lot more often than not. Just because you haven't beaten or don't like to play all-in-lefty cheese teams doesn't make it wrong.
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Old 02-05-2020, 02:30 PM   #19
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I don’t mind various strategies to utilize to win. That’s baseball. It’s NOT cheating!

The initial post states that the strategy to offset this by utilizing your bench or L/R matchups is not functioning! That’s the problem.


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Old 02-05-2020, 03:06 PM   #20
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So the complaints coming from 8 time champs in here are pretty rich. Losing to y'alls whale teams every week isn't "ruining the game" for me. Suck it up buttercup.
Since you are obviously talking about me, I will respond. Perhaps my comment was over the top. I retract my statement that the exploit is "ruining the game for me". The OP caught me at a moment when I didn't feel well, and I took out my frustration on something totally unrelated. That's not an excuse, it is just an explanation of why I feel differently about it right now.

I will say that I don't like exploits of any kind, and this lefty cheese setup designed to take advantage of an AI weakness is clearly an exploit. In my opinion... using an opener/follower strategy is not an exploit. Using strategy sliders is not an exploit. Spending thousands of dollars on a team is not an exploit.

I did spend a lot of money on my team. I thought it was fun at the time. I wouldn't do it again. I am sorry if losing to more expensive teams frustrates you. However, I don't think telling you to "suck it up, buttercup" would advance the conversation.

Your suggestion to fix the PH strategies is a good idea and would solve the problem for me. I am not holding my breath that OOTPD will do anything since I don't believe they see this as an important issue.
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