Bunting

[Toast]

Originally Posted by David Watts

But, baseball being what it is, I wonder if there are enough strategy decisions in a game, that it really makes a difference? Would love to know how many wins one's superior smarts actually brings to the table. Would love to see someone test this.

I remember reading last year that a manage's decisions in RL is good for about 6 to 8 more win over the whole 162 game season. Not many considering a similar manager would be doing the same or a poorer one doing slightly less. Still in the heat of moment coming down to the end of a close pennant race this difference might be big!

Toast

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

*tire screech*

I know you said this has happened in the past and with other teams, but I wonder how the game handles having the human manager without the input from that human manager. Have you checked out your team strategy settings?

I have my team strategy set to the preset "sabermetric".

[Dyzalot]

Bunting set to "rarely", team strategy set to "sabermetric" and playing as GM/Manager.

[BleacherBum]

Is it possible that in these situations its not a manager strategy, but instead the player is making his own (poor) choice to attempt to bunt for hit ? And that the "sac bunt" is just the scoring result when he fails to reach base.

It still isn't smart baseball, but maybe the manager isn't the culprit in the decision logic.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by BleacherBum

Is it possible that in these situations its not a manager strategy, but instead the player is making his own (poor) choice to attempt to bunt for hit ? And that the "sac bunt" is just the scoring result when he fails to reach base.

It still isn't smart baseball, but maybe the manager isn't the culprit in the decision logic.

If all my examples were guys with good speed and good ratings at bunting for a hit, then maybe I could accept such an explanation. That isn't what we are seeing though.

[BleacherBum]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

If all my examples were guys with good speed and good ratings at bunting for a hit

...or perhaps a LH batter trying to beat a defensive shift ?

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by BleacherBum

...or perhaps a LH batter trying to beat a defensive shift ?

Do you really believe the AI is that sophisticated? Do they bunt every time the shift is on? If so then the defense should stop shifting. If not, what determines when they do and when they don't?

[BleacherBum]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Do you really believe the AI is that sophisticated? Do they bunt every time the shift is on? If so then the defense should stop shifting. If not, what determines when they do and when they don't?

I don't know about sophisticated, but I'm just suggesting there may be more factors involved in a bunt than the manager's strategic thinking. And this sort of strange stuff even happens in MLB. In fact, here's the exact scenario you described above (3-1 game, 2 runners on, power hitter up), and look what he did...

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by BleacherBum

I don't know about sophisticated, but I'm just suggesting there may be more factors involved in a bunt than the manager's strategic thinking. And this sort of strange stuff even happens in MLB. In fact, here's the exact scenario you described above (3-1 game, 2 runners on, power hitter up), and look what he did...

If that is what is happening then the PBP text should indicate as such. And yes I know it happens. I've seen David Ortiz lay down a bunt against the shift to get on base. Also, if this is what is happening, that the batter is making this decision on his own, why have I never seen a batter bunt when I play a game out in "one pitch" mode and select "swing away"? Why do I only see it when I let the AI manage?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

If that is what is happening then the PBP text should indicate as such. And yes I know it happens. I've seen David Ortiz lay down a bunt against the shift to get on base. Also, if this is what is happening, that the batter is making this decision on his own, why have I never seen a batter bunt when I play a game out in "one pitch" mode and select "swing away"? Why do I only see it when I let the AI manage?

The other manager can't read the word "bunt".

[Dodger1]

Fwiw, just had a game where a team was down 3 in the 8th, man on first, one out and the 7 spot hotter bunted for a sacrifice. Don't see it often, but it does occur in the game occasionally, when it would simply never occur irl.

[ThatSeventiesGuy]

I've noticed quite a bit of bunting, too, but just assumed it was because I'm playing under early 1900s deadball rules. Perhaps not.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

The other manager can't read the word "bunt".

I have no idea what that means. My apologies if it is just a joke that went over my head.

[Anyone]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

The one possible explanation that makes sense to me and would explain why I see stuff other people don't is if the sim engine is somehow different when you observe a game as opposed to just simming through it or playing it out since I assume not many people on these boards sit there and just watch their teams or AI controlled teams play games.

It hit me, when it crossed my mind, that at least as to why it may be ignoring the "Sabermetric" preset, this could be somewhat of an explanation (with this team, anyway).

When you play out a game but don't make the decisions, you have to list your Bench Coach as the one to make them in the drop down.

The engine may read that as delegating the authority to the Bench Coach, so he uses his own settings and not the team settings you set up. If you were simming the game without watching it, it would sim "you" as managing and thus the team settings you'd set.

It isn't a full explanation, because on Rarely for me, even Smallball managers were nearly never sacrificing with non-pitchers. But, at least as far as it ignoring the Sabermetric setting, that might explain part of it.

[Dyzalot]

I never listed the Bench Coach in any drop down to make any decisions. In the options & preview screen it shows decisions as being made by the AI, not by any coach.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I have no idea what that means. My apologies if it is just a joke that went over my head.

It means you and it was a joke.

why have I never seen a batter bunt when I play a game out in "one pitch" mode and select "swing away"? Why do I only see it when I let the AI manage?

The AI is not in control you are. You must input the bunt sign just like a real life manager does.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

The AI is not in control you are. You must input the bunt sign just like a real life manager does.

Yes but that was in response the the possibility raised that the hitter was acting on his own in some of these situations.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Yes but that was in response the the possibility raised that the hitter was acting on his own in some of these situations.

I thought it was obvious. I paid no attention to prior context.

[Dyzalot]

Originally Posted by RchW

I thought it was obvious. I paid no attention to prior context.

Well people keep coming up with all kinds of "legitimate" reasons as to why these things happen so I try to answer them the best I can. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and don't assume I'm just being trolled.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

Well people keep coming up with all kinds of "legitimate" reasons as to why these things happen so I try to answer them the best I can. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and don't assume I'm just being trolled.

So what did you think I was doing?

You know that no player will bunt unless you say so. That's why it was obvious IMO.